Post/Author/DateTime	Post
horse 01-11-04, 04:06 PM	i'm starting up with a gladiator campaign group next semester. in case you've never heard of a gladiator campaign, i'll explain the basics to you. each player gets 20 levels to divide up as he/she chooses between an indefinite number of characters. a player could make 20 1st-level characters, 5 4th-level, 1 20th-level, whatever. then players throw their characters into a roman-style arena & duke it out with other player's characters. whenever you win a fight or your character does something cool (DM's discretion as to whether or not it pleases the crowd), you get a prestige point. between fights, prestige points can be spent on levels ( for existing or new characters), or new weapons/gear. so basically, it's all fighting & no story. this leads to me my quesiton. because there is no story, i have absolutely no shame in building a blatant clone, & the DM's okay with it. i've decided to make one 20th-level character & spend prestige points mainly on levels for new characters. so, should i make an aragorn clone, a legolas clone, or a gimli clone? they're both very awesome warriors that i would love to use but i can only do one. i think legolas would be easier to build, but aragorn would probably be easier to use. i originally built a level 7 aragorn, a level 7 legolas, & a level 6 gimli, but i felt that they were way too underpowered to do the actual characters justice. plus, most of the other players are coming up with some really powerful stuff that's gonna be tough to beat, so i need to step it up to a single 20th-level dude to give myself a fighting chance. each character gets various equipment at certain levels. at every 4th level, the character gets one magic weapon/armor with up to a +5 enhancement, & at every 3rd level, the character gets a low-level magic item. any opinions & help would be greatly appreciated. also, if anybody has any build suggestoins, that would be very cool.
Master of the Squirrel's 01-11-04, 04:29 PM	What books are allowed, and are you allowed to be evil? We can get VERY nasty with 20 levels of unprohibited cheeseyness.
Merbeast 01-11-04, 05:24 PM	In the arena, I'd say Legolas... with potions of fly.
Master of the Squirrel's 01-11-04, 06:07 PM	I guess I should have asked also: Is your heart set on being one of the LotR Character Clones?
horse 01-11-04, 06:27 PM	Originally posted by Master of the Squirrel's What books are allowed, and are you allowed to be evil? We can get VERY nasty with 20 levels of unprohibited cheeseyness. pretty much anything from 3.0 & 3.5 is allowed, as long as the DM approves. it's not really 20 'levels', though, technically. we're doing ecl's (estimated challenge levels). it's kinda complicated. for example, a 20th level human fighter & a 20th level half-dragon fighter are obviously not equivalent, so the half-dragon would have to be lowered to a level that is equivalent, probably somewhere in the 10 to 15 range. and yes, i'd like to do at least one of the lotr dudes. future levels will probably be spent on more creative characters. i'm curious, though. what did you have in mind?
Master of the Squirrel's 01-11-04, 06:38 PM	Well, any number of things are possible. For instance, you could go the War Hulking Hurler route, and deal litterally millions of points of damage on average. Or, there is the Dervish builds that'll get you huge amounts of attacks. Then there are Ur Priest Builds that'll get you level nine arcane and divine spells. Of course, you also have the Gish builds that JosephKell has so kindly made if you want a Mage-Fighter. The various wizard builds are powerful also. Then you have the Apostle of Peace, which would end up likely just decimating the arena floor, because no one would be able to hit him, have spells that will deal major damage to anyone who tries hitting each other, and then calm everybody down, and make them all sing "Kum-by-ya" with each other, via his no save touch.
Master of the Squirrel's 01-11-04, 06:44 PM	As for the LotR builds, I think you'll probably want Legolas or Gimli. Aragorn would be useful in an actual campaign, due to his supreme tracking skills and nobility that can have some effect, but Gimli and Legolas are real fighters. Gimli would probably be something to the effect of Fighter 6/Weapon Master 10/Dwarven Defender 4, a not so optimized build, but effective none the less. Legolas, however, would probably be a Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 2/Deepwood Sniper 2/Peerless Archer 10, or something to the effect. Given that you can then grab some wings of flying, get above everyone, and then snipe down on them, I would recomend going for Legolas. I'll have to check to make sure the builds right, but I'm pretty sure those are the levels you will want.
HCCommander 01-11-04, 08:23 PM	Originally posted by horse pretty much anything from 3.0 & 3.5 is allowed, as long as the DM approves. it's not really 20 'levels', though, technically. we're doing ecl's (estimated challenge levels). it's kinda complicated. for example, a 20th level human fighter & a 20th level half-dragon fighter are obviously not equivalent, so the half-dragon would have to be lowered to a level that is equivalent, probably somewhere in the 10 to 15 range. I only know effective class levels and a 17th level half-dragon fighter is equivalent to a 20th level human fighter. The problem is that spellcasters normally are superior and no one of the guys in LotR really casts spells (not even Gandalf, it's a tragedy - the most powerful wizard on the plane is simply riding arount on his paramount horse). An evil wizard should be quite powerful, as well as an ur-priest or one of those crazy ur-priest-mystic-theurge-nar-demonbinder builds. Another route is a really good character. No prestige points for equipment, everybody takes Vow of Poverty. This could be a problem for wizards, but monks and druids really shine. Perhaps Apostle of Peace, but I don't really know if his spell-list has anything useful. Well, an Apostle of Peace as a gladiator is cheese incarnate. As I'm writing this, are you sure "pretty much anything" is allowed?
da chicken 01-11-04, 08:45 PM	Meh. You take 20 levels of a spellcasting class and start every combat with shapechange. If you fight a warrior, you sunder. If you fight a spellcaster, you grapple. Best choice I can think of is the VoP druid.
horse 01-11-04, 09:02 PM	yes, i'm sure that 'pretty much anything' is allowed. one guy's playing a big troll or ogre or something like that. it's got big damage reduction & does a bunch of damage. another guy was talking about making a wizard that just flies above the arena dropping fireballs. the DM's very flexible. however, knowing him, he'll try to keep it fair. some of the arenas will have special attributes like traps & stuff. he might put some kind of handicaps on anything insanely powerful. i definitely want to stay away from spellcasters. too complicated for me. what's this vow of poverty i keep hearing about? i've been visiting the CO board for two days & i've already heard it like 20 times. master of the squirrels' legolas sounds pretty cool. i was actually thinking straight fighter for him, but PrC's would work, too. the only problem is getting the info for them. i'm not sure what books the DM has. it's gonna be a big group, so maybe someone else will have access to that stuff.
Sensei Gith 01-11-04, 09:18 PM	Vow of Poverty (VoP) is a feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds that gives a bunch of bonuses for not having any property except one mundane simple weapon, a set of clothes, and some trail rations. This works well with: -Monks. That's what everyone tells me, anyway. -Forsakers. You only have to give up your equipment once, but you get two sets of bonuses for it. -Shapeshifters. You lose your equipment anyway in most forms, but you keep the VoP bonuses. And sorry to have break it to you, but spellcasters are where the power is. If you're not a spellcaster, you'll probably be killed by one. Shapechange/VoP sounds like a good combination, especially with the new, hideously broken spell. Of course, if you REALLY want to be powerful, be a spelldancer. Spelldance as long as you can to cast an extended and empowered (many times) Bear's Endurance to improve your Con. Then do it again, with your higher Con letting you spelldance longer for more Extends and Empowers. Repeat. When your Con is about 1,000 for a year, raise all of your other stats to the same level. By the time of the tournament, you'll be unstoppable. You automatically go first due to an obscene initiative, so cast a death effect, now with a DC of over 500. Do this a lot. But that's sheer cheese.
HCCommander 01-11-04, 09:28 PM	I think the level-adjustment of a troll or ogre is too high to make the cut. Perhaps feral half-ogre, but not more. The flying wizard wouldn't be a problem for a VoP-druid, even if he's invisible. The vow of poverty basically says "you can't use items, exept, perhaps, a quarterstaff" and nets you some insane boni (which are still worse than using items appropriate for your level). But if you can decide to have more chars OR equipment.... A non-spellcaster will have a hard day. Perhaps you can get his spell resistance to insane values, but I'm not sure how. Sometimes it stacks, sometimes it doesn't. Grappling spellcasters sounds like a good plan. Can't a monk jump up high, catch the freaking flying wizard and put him down?
Jindl 01-11-04, 09:33 PM	Originally posted by Sensei Gith Of course, if you REALLY want to be powerful, be a spelldancer. Spelldance as long as you can to cast an extended and empowered (many times) Bear's Endurance to improve your Con. Then do it again, with your higher Con letting you spelldance longer for more Extends and Empowers. Repeat. When your Con is about 1,000 for a year, raise all of your other stats to the same level. By the time of the tournament, you'll be unstoppable. You automatically go first due to an obscene initiative, so cast a death effect, now with a DC of over 500. Do this a lot. But that's sheer cheese. It's also impossible in 3.5. You cannot put the same metamagic effect on a spell more than once, and bear's endurcance and the like are no longer empowerable. I would suggest taking a look at the Core Arena thread. The best characters are just reaching 9th level, and their core only, but it should give you some ideas about what kinds of builds are tough in an arena setting. For non-casters, Paladins have proven to be the toughest. Among the casters, druids rule, but wizards and clerics (with a 1 level dip in fighter or barbarian) are also tough. At least that is what is going on in the core arena. Good luck. -Jindl
horse 01-13-04, 03:00 PM	i got my core set, complete warrior, & arms & equipment guide in the mail yesterday. i've got an idea...heehee so here's the plan: an ogre with 4 levels of barbarian & 10 levels of frenzied berserker. i'll give him a fullblade & let him start hacking away with rage, frenzy (yes, they do stack), and supreme power attack. i rolled him up & here's what he's got so far: str 28 dex 12 con 21 int 10 wis 14 cha 9 212 hp with rage followed by frenzy, his str goes up to 42, his con goes up to 25, & he gains 40 hit points. his full attack is +35/+35/+30/+25/+20, for 2d8+24+4x damage, where x is the amount i subtract from my attack roll using supreme power attack. these benefits last for 10 rounds, which should be more than long enough to kill whatever i'm fighting. the drawbacks are that i'll get -7 ac (-1 for being large, -2 for raging, & -4 for frenzy) & takes 2 points of nonlethal damage per round (from frenzy). so, i need to make my kills within the first few rounds of combat, or i'm toast. the flying wizard will also be a problem, so i need to find a way to deal with that. maybe potions of fly. i can definitely say one thing for sure: remember the guy i told you about who has the troll? we're gonna have fun. any ideas on power attack tactics? how much is too much to subtract from my attack roll? i was thinking of subtracting down to +20 for each attack (that way i figure i'll hit most of the time as long as i don't roll any nat 1's). should i subtract more or less?