Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eventhorizon 12-03-03, 02:47 PM	I am thinking of make an arcane archer for my next character, this is the build that I am currently going to use, (we are only using core 3.5 at the moment). I want to be a good archer, and while I know that there are better Prc’s than the arcane archer out there I like the idea of this class, besides infinite +5 arrows for free is quite cool. I was going to go the Rgr5/6,Wiz2/1 route for a higher BAB and earlier access to the PrC, but I think the Imbue arrow ability has potential so I have increased the amount of caster levels to gain access to level 4 spells. (Apologies if the formatting doesn’t work, I cut and pasted from another application) Elf 32 Point-buy Str: 14. +2 Dex: 20.(18) +5 Con: 12.(14) +1 Int: 12. +1 Wis: 10. NA Cha: 8. -1 LV Class BAB Feats 1. Rgr1 +1 Point black shot 2. Rgr2 +2 Rapid shot(Archery combat style) 3. Wiz1 +2 Weapon Focus(Longbow), Scribe scroll 4. Wiz2 +3 5. Wiz3 +3 6. Wiz4 +4 Precise Shot 7. Wiz5 +4 8. Wiz6 +5 9. Wiz7 +5 ??? 10. Wiz8 +6 11. ACN +7 Continue with Arcane Archer. LV20: Rgr2, Wiz8, Acn10. BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1 Spells: Lv0(4), Lv1(4), Lv2(3), Lv3(3), Lv4(2) +Int bonuses Could anyone suggest improvements (core 3.5 only please, although if tomb and blood, masters of the wild, FRCS and sword and fist are valid in 3.5 please feel free to use), and especially good spells to use with the imbue arrow ability, maybe there are some not so obvious spells that work well with it that I have missed. What do people think of Bard10/ArcaneArcher10? It means less spells, and changing round my stats, but it gives me a slightly better BAB, bard song, healing abilities(spells), more skills and HPs and the ability to wear light armour and still cast spells. But I don’t know if the Imbue arrow ability is any good with bard spells.
DreamWeaver 12-03-03, 03:08 PM	Just to be brief since I haven't really looked hard at the Arcane Archer for almost a year now: Even when it had first come out, I never really understood how the "Imbue Arrow" could be useful. As I recall, only area effect spells could be used with it, and when I reviewed the various area effect spells that an Arcane Caster had, they typically had longer ranges then my shots with an arrow. Not to mention the fact that I didn't actually have to roll to hit with, say, a fireball. Of course, maybe it could be useful if your DM wants to rule that an arrow with fireball imbued in it that strikes someone can not have the fireball effect avoided with a reflex save (that would be great against those guys with Evasion or Improved Evasion). I always liked everything else the PrC had, but the Imbue Arrow ability always seemed useless to me. Perhaps someone else who has tried it out could suggest some spells/ideas on how to make it useful?
eventhorizon 12-03-03, 03:30 PM	Just been looking at the eldritch Knight which I haven't really looked at b4, and have changed my builds considerably: figther 1/Wizard5/Eldritch knight4/ Arcane Archer 10 I personally like this because it takes 10 levels in Arcane archer and that is the sort of character I had in mind. However: figther 1/wizard7/Eldritch knight10/ Arcane Archer 2 This is just soooooo much more effective. alright, you lose the +5 arrows but since bow and ammo +'s don't stack anymore so what (though there is a case to be made for frost, shock, flaming bows and +5 ammo), but you do end up with a BAB of +16 and a caster lv of 16 (Lv 8 spells), which offers so much more oppertunity for imbue arrow. As for the usefullness of imbue arrow it really comes into its own when using farshot or distance weapons, but is not really that useful for dungeons. Mind you, what is the range of savage wilting again??? And is there still that bow that grants true strike in 3.5?
Sisyfos 12-03-03, 04:10 PM	Originally posted by eventhorizon [However: figther 1/wizard7/Eldritch knight10/ Arcane Archer 2 This is just soooooo much more effective. alright, you lose the +5 arrows but since bow and ammo +'s don't stack anymore so what (though there is a case to be made for frost, shock, flaming bows and +5 ammo), but you do end up with a BAB of +16 and a caster lv of 16 (Lv 8 spells), which offers so much more oppertunity for imbue arrow. [/B] Greater magic weapon makes +5 arrows a redundant feature of the Arcane Archer. With enough caster levels you can make 50 of those arrows with one spell. Sisyfos
rilem 12-03-03, 04:26 PM	Originally posted by eventhorizon [B]Just been looking at the eldritch Knight which I haven't really looked at b4, and have changed my builds considerably: figther 1/wizard7/Eldritch knight10/ Arcane Archer 2 This is just soooooo much more effective. .... Horrid wilting is long range (by the time you can cast it, about 1000 ft.) So I'm not sure it's a spell screaming for the imbue arrow ability. I'm not sure why you take 7 wizard levels. That gives you 16 spellcasting levels altogether (not enough for 9th level spells). You'd be better off with another fighter level or PrC
HoshiAdam 12-03-03, 05:23 PM	Fighter 1 Diviner 6 Eldtrich Knight 2 Arcane Archer 6 Eldtrich Knight 3-8 BAB:+18 F/R/W:+15/+9/+9 Note that you will need to rearrange your point buy to get higher intelligence so you can cast higher than 2nd level spells. I would suggest: 4 Str:12 (+1) 10 Dex:18(16)(+4) 6 Con:12(14)(+1) 10 Int:16(+3) 2 Wis:10 Cha:8 (-1) The reason for stopping at 6th Arcane Archer was Phase Arrow. Specializing in Divination gives more true strikes and other nifty divination spells. Use arcane eye to look around a dungeon, then use locate creature to find their direction, then cast truestrike, and on the next round, imbue a fireball (quickened) into an arrow and shoot it with phase arrow. Then start concentrating on the arcane eye again, so you can see the havoc of a fireball going off in the middle of nowhere. I'd suggest Quicken Spell and specializing in Divination. If you were going to go to epic levels, finish out eldtrich knight and arcane archer, then diviner till 9th level spells, then epic arcane archer, with building up your spell slots, just to launch a phasing meteor swarm imbued arrow of death.
Sisyfos 12-03-03, 05:33 PM	I first thought that finally someone has found a way to make an actually useful arcane archer. Then I looked at it a bit better: First of all phase arrow can be used only once daily. An ability like this is hardly worth a level if it can be used only once each day. Then I noted that seeker arrow can accomplish the same so thats actually two uses a day... a bit better but still pretty weak. Then I noted that both imbue arrow and phase arrow are standard actions. Imbue arrow needs to be done the round the arrow is fired. It seems that these two cannot be used together. :-( Sisyfos
HoshiAdam 12-03-03, 05:48 PM	Bah! I thought I had it reasoned out enough, but rereading it I guess you can't do it. But, you might be able to take Quicken Spell-Like Ability on Imbue Arrow and do it that way. It would probably take 10th level Arcane Archer to do that though, and it is questionable if Quicken Spell-Like Ability would work on a (Sp) that doesn't emulate a spell with a level. Best use for arcane archer class: In a very low magic world.
Remmick2099 12-03-03, 06:00 PM	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sisyfos [B]I first thought that finally someone has found a way to make an actually useful arcane archer. Then I looked at it a bit better: I've been planning on making an Arcane Archer character, a wild elf with 6 fighter levels, one sorcerer level, then starting AA at level 8. I just hit level 7 with him, and I don't want to waste a level on sorcerer. Furthermore, as I closely examine the realities of the AA's abilities, they seem to be at odds with its prerequisites. The endless string of magic arrows is cool, but not as great as, say, the "Ki damage" that the Weapon Master gets. And a lot of the AA powers, as has been discussed, are usable only once per day, which is just no good. You'd have to change those "once per day" powers so it's instead "once per day per Arcane Archer level" or something. The imbue arrow spell is a very cool power. In theory. A 6th level figher (or even ranger) with one arcane-spellcasting level just DOESN'T have enough spells or spells per day to make it useful. And by limiting the power to only area-effect spells (!?!) it's even less useful. You need to get rid of that area-effect requirement so that you could cast something wildly appropriate for bows like True Strike. Also, because it's a standard action, you could combine use of Imbue Arrow with Manyshot or Shot on the Run, which is not bad. The best thing Imbue Arrow has going for it is it's a spell-like ability, not a spell. So no arcane spell failure. But because a F6/S1 is going to have very few spells, that's not quite so useful. They need to change the requirements so that "you can cast 3rd level arcance spells" instead of 1st and lower the Bab req. to +3 or +4. Then maybe swap out a few of the magic arrow bonuses or lame powers (like seeker arrow: made redundant by Improved precise shot) and give +1 spellcaster levels instead. Then, and only then, would arcane archers truly be "one of the reasons the elves are so feared in comabt."
balefire42 12-03-03, 08:54 PM	Assuming you want all 10 levels of arcane archer, how 'bout bard8/whatever2/arcanearcher10. Don't even bother with offensive spells, take buffs and utility spells. for stats, I'd go with: Str: 14 +2 Dex: 18 (16) +4 Con: 10 (12) Int: 12 +1 Wis: 10 Cha: 14 +2 The "whatever" could be fighter, or ranger, or even dragon disciple. I would suggest dragon disciple, unless you really want feats. From the two levels of dragon disciple you'll get 2 bonus spells (helpful, since you don't get many 3rd level spells per day). natural armor+1, str+2, and claws and bite. The bite is nice, because you can use it while you are holding your bow.
HammerFist 12-03-03, 10:32 PM	Originally posted by balefire42 The "whatever" could be fighter, or ranger, or even dragon disciple. I would suggest dragon disciple, unless you really want feats. From the two levels of dragon disciple you'll get 2 bonus spells (helpful, since you don't get many 3rd level spells per day). natural armor+1, str+2, and claws and bite. The bite is nice, because you can use it while you are holding your bow. I've always like Bard/AA, I just have a problem with the above quote. The "whatever" is quite severely restricted, unless you want an XP penalty, or you want to play a Half-Elf (who make excellent Bards, BTW). I'd suggest a PrC over 2 levels of Wizard for a standard Elf in the above build, or 2 more levels of Bard.
eventhorizon 12-04-03, 06:53 AM	what I meant wiht the horrid wilting was not so much the range but an example of a good spell, remember that you also hit the enemy with your +5 flaming, shocking, thundering, frost, keen, wounding....... arrow so you do normal damage + the damage from the spell. SO hit the big bad guy with the arrow and let the spell take care of the minions. As for the Greater magic weapon thing, its been slightly nerfed, and what happens if you are in a situation where you can't memorise spells or have had your arrows dispelled? The arance archer is just more reliable. What good spells are ther for Imbue arrow, mass charm great shout fireball(quickened with phase arrow as mentoned above) and similar spells. The imbue arrow ability says that area spells can be used even if they are normally centered on the caster, what decent target self area spells are worth shooting on an arrow?