Arcane Archer Oddity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archer Oddity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ChristopherGroves
09-08-06, 03:53 PM Reading the Arcane Archer in the SRD, this leapt out at me:

Imbue Arrow (Sp): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

Er ... what if the spell took a full-round action to cast? Or longer? It sounds silly and I don't even know how many applicable spells are out there ...
Richmud
09-08-06, 04:59 PM Er ... what if the spell took a full-round action to cast? Or longer? It sounds silly and I don't even know how many applicable spells are out there ...

Then you don't have to spend as much time casting the spell. Which is nice since the AA has so few other things going for it
ChristopherGroves
09-08-06, 08:19 PM Then you don't have to spend as much time casting the spell. Which is nice since the AA has so few other things going for it

Exactly. So, say this outloud.

"If you can imbue it in an arrow, the Arcane Archer can shorten any casting time down to a standard action"

He could cast the spell and shoot the arrow at the ground in front of him.

Now, I'm not sure how many spells there are with a huge casting time, but there are a few. Summoning spells, to begin with, are no longer a full round. And I'm not certain how this would react w/ a spontaneous-application of metamagic (like a sorcerer may do) which would take a standard action spell and turn it into a full-round spell.

There's a hole there ... just not sure how to exploit it.
Endarire
09-08-06, 08:29 PM Arcane archer druids can use awaken as a standard action.

-EE
androcles
09-08-06, 08:47 PM how about that spell that takes a week to cast and creates a plane?
heax
09-08-06, 09:00 PM how about that spell that takes a week to cast and creates a plane?
:eek: :eek: :eek:
LordMongoose
09-08-06, 09:09 PM Please reread before you get too carried away :D.

"area spell"

Sorry.
dominus_casuum
09-08-06, 09:13 PM You'd probably have to do it on the Astral Plane, and then chuck a rock in the air and shoot it.

Area spell? Fine. The "create a plane" thing is an area spell, right? And isn't Mass Awaken an area spell? Or is it one of those lame targets/level spells?
Pinky's brain
09-08-06, 09:21 PM Well it speeds it up, but that in itself isn't hugely useful.

Good area spells with casting time > 1 round :
Control weather
Energy transformation field
Forbiddance
Zone of respite

Useful in limited circumstances :
Hallow/unhallow
Shadow landscape

Guards and wards could be funny.
ChristopherGroves
09-08-06, 09:24 PM Well, it has to have an area.

Now I'm all kinds of obsessed with cataloging spells with an area. Dangit.

Control Weather ... hmm.

There are really two kinds of spells that benefit ... spells with an area but short range and spells with an area but long casting time. Anyone got a list of area spells?
Richmud
09-08-06, 09:50 PM Here is the spell index of PHB and spell compendium click on t/e/a and it will group all the area spells together

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablesort=7
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast
09-08-06, 09:57 PM how about that spell that takes a week to cast and creates a plane?

Now read the splitting enhancement from Champions of Ruin.

Two demiplanes for the price of one.

That's another great thing about the Arcane Archer: double your spells with a +3 weapon enhancement.
Deschain of Gilead
09-09-06, 01:01 AM Now read the splitting enhancement from Champions of Ruin.
...

That's another great thing about the Arcane Archer: double your spells with a +3 weapon enhancement.

Does that REALLY work?!

It seems insane to me, where insane=DM will probably throw book at you and say no, but as already said arcane archer doesn't have much else going for it.
Mecheye
09-09-06, 01:15 AM i'd rule that Prismatic Spray/Sphere would work, since its TECHNICALY an area spell.

other useful spells are Horrid Wilting, Fireball, Mords Disjuction, Storm of Vengance, and Mind Fog

Personaly i'd houserule a Cleric varient so the arrows can carry certain Touch spells as well, like Cures, Restorations, and ability buffs like Bulls Strength

EDIT: i just read the spreadsheet, P-Spray is an area spell.
Pinky's brain
09-09-06, 02:06 AM Those spells were always known to be possible, they just don't abuse the oddity being pointed out in the OP. Only spells with a casting time longer than a standard action are relevant, and only the ones with a casting time longer than a round are really interesting.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast
09-09-06, 02:25 AM Works well for a sorcerer with metamagic feats. Fairly limited in scope, but still an interesting way around one of the sorcerer's main limitations.
JosephKell
09-09-06, 03:31 AM And I'm not certain how this would react w/ a spontaneous-application of metamagic (like a sorcerer may do) which would take a standard action spell and turn it into a full-round spell.I was under the impression that Sorcerers and Bards only had to use a full action, not a full-round. So the spell still went off on their initiative.

I could see an Arcane Archer shooting the tank with a Blunt Arrow for a fast Enlarge person though.

My friend is thinking of making a Bard/Arcane Archer who could shoot party members with Blunt Arrows of Cure Moderate Wounds dealing 1d8 nonlethal than healing 2d8+8. Actually, his original plan was to shoot at Incorporeals, but he thinks shooting areas to heal them is hilarious. He is planning on doing Bard/Arcane Archer/Sublime Chord.
Pinky's brain
09-09-06, 03:34 AM They have to take a full round action, which means the spell goes off on their initiative.

There is no such thing as a full action. Spells with 1 round casting take full round actions to cast too, their casting just has extra side effects (which are not part and parcel of full round actions in general).
JosephKell
09-09-06, 03:41 AM No, I meant when they take a Standard Action Spell (say Fireball) and use a metamagic feat on it (say Empower) it that it takes a Full Round Action (but not a full round) to do.

Basically, what I am trying to get to really is "Is it really worth all those feats and delayed spell progress just to be able to use metamagic as a standard action instead of using up the move action?"

I know that Enlarge Person, Summon ____ #, and others have 1 round cast durations.
PhaedrusXY
09-09-06, 04:39 AM Enlarge Person is not an area spell.

You can filter all the PHB spells by affect (area is one choice) on this website (http://www.d20srd.org/filters/spell.php).

Glyph of Warding is another one to add to the list.

And Mage's Private Sanctum (interesting one there, heh).

And Screen.
androcles
09-09-06, 08:06 AM i personally like the idea of shooting 2 amf's per round, can be killer in a war campaign, where (most of the time) the casters tend to group together
ChristopherGroves
09-09-06, 08:14 AM Casting time, the nigh-instant control weather is amusing.

"Control weather? Give me 10 minutes. No, wait. Hand me my bow, I'll be done in 6 seconds."
Shaggy_Shaggs
09-09-06, 08:27 AM Casting time, the nigh-instant control weather is amusing.

"Control weather? Give me 10 minutes. No, wait. Hand me my bow, I'll be done in 6 seconds."
I've got this mental image of the caster blowing a hole in a cloud and it going pbfbpfpbpfbf all over the place as it deflates and lets loose a deluge. :smirk:

Question... couldn't this effect be used with a Lens of Ray Widening to significantly expand your options of "area" spells to abuse with the bow? And/or possibly with the Ocular Spell feat to further expand those options?
ChristopherGroves
09-09-06, 08:55 AM Not sure about occular - a ray isn't an area. However classes or abilities that let you manipulate the shape of a spell should work.

Again, not sure there's anything broken. There is a little hole, just not sure even if it is exploited fully that it will lead to anything major.
Shaggy_Shaggs
09-09-06, 08:58 AM Not sure about occular - a ray isn't an area. However classes or abilities that let you manipulate the shape of a spell should work.
Yeah, I was just thinking use that, and the Lens of Ray Widening to turn your ray into a cone.

DC 15 Ref to avoid the effect entirely, so it wouldn't be worth a damn attacking unless you could shut down enemy Ref saves entirely, but for buff or heal spells, it might be worth a look.
everwind
09-09-06, 09:13 AM Yeah, I was just thinking use that, and the Lens of Ray Widening to turn your ray into a cone.

DC 15 Ref to avoid the effect entirely, so it wouldn't be worth a damn attacking unless you could shut down enemy Ref saves entirely, but for buff or heal spells, it might be worth a look.

For example if you use the sculpt spell from Complete Arcane many spells can become area spells
Shaggy_Shaggs
09-09-06, 09:16 AM For example if you use the sculpt spell from Complete Arcane many spells can become area spells
Um, unless this was errata'ed, Sculpt Spell requires the spell to already be an area spell, and merely changes its shape.
EvilVegan
09-09-06, 09:53 AM Too bad arcane archer doesn't have spell progression and its other abilities are crap.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChristopherGroves 09-08-06, 03:53 PM	Reading the Arcane Archer in the SRD, this leapt out at me: Imbue Arrow (Sp): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted. Er ... what if the spell took a full-round action to cast? Or longer? It sounds silly and I don't even know how many applicable spells are out there ...
Richmud 09-08-06, 04:59 PM	Er ... what if the spell took a full-round action to cast? Or longer? It sounds silly and I don't even know how many applicable spells are out there ... Then you don't have to spend as much time casting the spell. Which is nice since the AA has so few other things going for it
ChristopherGroves 09-08-06, 08:19 PM	Then you don't have to spend as much time casting the spell. Which is nice since the AA has so few other things going for it Exactly. So, say this outloud. "If you can imbue it in an arrow, the Arcane Archer can shorten any casting time down to a standard action" He could cast the spell and shoot the arrow at the ground in front of him. Now, I'm not sure how many spells there are with a huge casting time, but there are a few. Summoning spells, to begin with, are no longer a full round. And I'm not certain how this would react w/ a spontaneous-application of metamagic (like a sorcerer may do) which would take a standard action spell and turn it into a full-round spell. There's a hole there ... just not sure how to exploit it.
Endarire 09-08-06, 08:29 PM	Arcane archer druids can use awaken as a standard action. -EE
androcles 09-08-06, 08:47 PM	how about that spell that takes a week to cast and creates a plane?
heax 09-08-06, 09:00 PM	how about that spell that takes a week to cast and creates a plane? :eek: :eek: :eek:
LordMongoose 09-08-06, 09:09 PM	Please reread before you get too carried away :D. "area spell" Sorry.
dominus_casuum 09-08-06, 09:13 PM	You'd probably have to do it on the Astral Plane, and then chuck a rock in the air and shoot it. Area spell? Fine. The "create a plane" thing is an area spell, right? And isn't Mass Awaken an area spell? Or is it one of those lame targets/level spells?
Pinky's brain 09-08-06, 09:21 PM	Well it speeds it up, but that in itself isn't hugely useful. Good area spells with casting time > 1 round : Control weather Energy transformation field Forbiddance Zone of respite Useful in limited circumstances : Hallow/unhallow Shadow landscape Guards and wards could be funny.
ChristopherGroves 09-08-06, 09:24 PM	Well, it has to have an area. Now I'm all kinds of obsessed with cataloging spells with an area. Dangit. Control Weather ... hmm. There are really two kinds of spells that benefit ... spells with an area but short range and spells with an area but long casting time. Anyone got a list of area spells?
Richmud 09-08-06, 09:50 PM	Here is the spell index of PHB and spell compendium click on t/e/a and it will group all the area spells together http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablesort=7
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 09-08-06, 09:57 PM	how about that spell that takes a week to cast and creates a plane? Now read the splitting enhancement from Champions of Ruin. Two demiplanes for the price of one. That's another great thing about the Arcane Archer: double your spells with a +3 weapon enhancement.
Deschain of Gilead 09-09-06, 01:01 AM	Now read the splitting enhancement from Champions of Ruin. ... That's another great thing about the Arcane Archer: double your spells with a +3 weapon enhancement. Does that REALLY work?! It seems insane to me, where insane=DM will probably throw book at you and say no, but as already said arcane archer doesn't have much else going for it.
Mecheye 09-09-06, 01:15 AM	i'd rule that Prismatic Spray/Sphere would work, since its TECHNICALY an area spell. other useful spells are Horrid Wilting, Fireball, Mords Disjuction, Storm of Vengance, and Mind Fog Personaly i'd houserule a Cleric varient so the arrows can carry certain Touch spells as well, like Cures, Restorations, and ability buffs like Bulls Strength EDIT: i just read the spreadsheet, P-Spray is an area spell.
Pinky's brain 09-09-06, 02:06 AM	Those spells were always known to be possible, they just don't abuse the oddity being pointed out in the OP. Only spells with a casting time longer than a standard action are relevant, and only the ones with a casting time longer than a round are really interesting.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 09-09-06, 02:25 AM	Works well for a sorcerer with metamagic feats. Fairly limited in scope, but still an interesting way around one of the sorcerer's main limitations.
JosephKell 09-09-06, 03:31 AM	And I'm not certain how this would react w/ a spontaneous-application of metamagic (like a sorcerer may do) which would take a standard action spell and turn it into a full-round spell.I was under the impression that Sorcerers and Bards only had to use a full action, not a full-round. So the spell still went off on their initiative. I could see an Arcane Archer shooting the tank with a Blunt Arrow for a fast Enlarge person though. My friend is thinking of making a Bard/Arcane Archer who could shoot party members with Blunt Arrows of Cure Moderate Wounds dealing 1d8 nonlethal than healing 2d8+8. Actually, his original plan was to shoot at Incorporeals, but he thinks shooting areas to heal them is hilarious. He is planning on doing Bard/Arcane Archer/Sublime Chord.
Pinky's brain 09-09-06, 03:34 AM	They have to take a full round action, which means the spell goes off on their initiative. There is no such thing as a full action. Spells with 1 round casting take full round actions to cast too, their casting just has extra side effects (which are not part and parcel of full round actions in general).
JosephKell 09-09-06, 03:41 AM	No, I meant when they take a Standard Action Spell (say Fireball) and use a metamagic feat on it (say Empower) it that it takes a Full Round Action (but not a full round) to do. Basically, what I am trying to get to really is "Is it really worth all those feats and delayed spell progress just to be able to use metamagic as a standard action instead of using up the move action?" I know that Enlarge Person, Summon ____ #, and others have 1 round cast durations.
PhaedrusXY 09-09-06, 04:39 AM	Enlarge Person is not an area spell. You can filter all the PHB spells by affect (area is one choice) on this website (http://www.d20srd.org/filters/spell.php). Glyph of Warding is another one to add to the list. And Mage's Private Sanctum (interesting one there, heh). And Screen.
androcles 09-09-06, 08:06 AM	i personally like the idea of shooting 2 amf's per round, can be killer in a war campaign, where (most of the time) the casters tend to group together
ChristopherGroves 09-09-06, 08:14 AM	Casting time, the nigh-instant control weather is amusing. "Control weather? Give me 10 minutes. No, wait. Hand me my bow, I'll be done in 6 seconds."
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-09-06, 08:27 AM	Casting time, the nigh-instant control weather is amusing. "Control weather? Give me 10 minutes. No, wait. Hand me my bow, I'll be done in 6 seconds." I've got this mental image of the caster blowing a hole in a cloud and it going pbfbpfpbpfbf all over the place as it deflates and lets loose a deluge. :smirk: Question... couldn't this effect be used with a Lens of Ray Widening to significantly expand your options of "area" spells to abuse with the bow? And/or possibly with the Ocular Spell feat to further expand those options?
ChristopherGroves 09-09-06, 08:55 AM	Not sure about occular - a ray isn't an area. However classes or abilities that let you manipulate the shape of a spell should work. Again, not sure there's anything broken. There is a little hole, just not sure even if it is exploited fully that it will lead to anything major.
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-09-06, 08:58 AM	Not sure about occular - a ray isn't an area. However classes or abilities that let you manipulate the shape of a spell should work. Yeah, I was just thinking use that, and the Lens of Ray Widening to turn your ray into a cone. DC 15 Ref to avoid the effect entirely, so it wouldn't be worth a damn attacking unless you could shut down enemy Ref saves entirely, but for buff or heal spells, it might be worth a look.
everwind 09-09-06, 09:13 AM	Yeah, I was just thinking use that, and the Lens of Ray Widening to turn your ray into a cone. DC 15 Ref to avoid the effect entirely, so it wouldn't be worth a damn attacking unless you could shut down enemy Ref saves entirely, but for buff or heal spells, it might be worth a look. For example if you use the sculpt spell from Complete Arcane many spells can become area spells
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-09-06, 09:16 AM	For example if you use the sculpt spell from Complete Arcane many spells can become area spells Um, unless this was errata'ed, Sculpt Spell requires the spell to already be an area spell, and merely changes its shape.
EvilVegan 09-09-06, 09:53 AM	Too bad arcane archer doesn't have spell progression and its other abilities are crap.