Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 04-29-05, 09:30 PM	I'm looking at creating a 20-level build with both clerical and arcane spells. The chief need for the clerical spells is the healing spells, not much else, so I was looking at just doing a normal Wizard 20 and using the Arcane Disciple feat to access the healing spells. But then I looked at the Mystic Theurge prestige class, and figured it would give me more spells per day than just being a wizard. Does the Cleric domain spell you get from the feat Arcane Disciple count for the purpose of the Mystic Theurge prerequisites? What I'm thinking is this: 1: Wizard 1, and 4 ranks in Spellcraft 2: Cleric 1, and 4 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) 3: Wizard 2, 4 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) and the Arcane Disciple feat 4: Wizard 3, 2 ranks each in Knowledge (Arcana) and cross-class Knowledge (Religion) Prerequisites fulfilled (you're able to cast 2nd-level clerical and arcane spells, and have 6 ranks in the right skills) 5: Mystic Theurge 1 (and so on). Would it work? If so, you could access that prestige class two levels earlier... And then there's the problem of the casting stats: With this PrC, you have two of them, and that's a problem. Which one should you concentrate on--or should it be both? Is the loss of feats and familiar powers from the Wizard going to hurt me? Is it smarter to take the Mystic Theurge levels earlier, or later? What can I do about undead, since I won't be able to turn them worth crap? And, finally, is Archmage 5 a good way to finish off this character? What I need out of the character: Utility/battlefield control spells Being able to hurt enemies without hitting the two people in the group who have Dervish levels and will doutless be all over the battlefield Healing spells Some extra skill points for cross-class Ride skill (we're all going to be mounted, and though I'll dismount once battle starts, I do want to be able to do some things--Fast Dismount, for example!). EDIT: Oh, I just realized I only have 19 levels there... what else should I put in? Maybe there's a LA +1 race that would help me out here...
mean_liar 04-29-05, 09:51 PM	Arcane Disciple spells are still arcane.
Callista 04-29-05, 09:53 PM	Okay, so that would change to wizard 3/cleric 3... I'm still wondering about my other questions though.
mean_liar 04-29-05, 10:20 PM	Brain cramp. I just read a PrC that gives the Shape Spell ability other than Archmage, but can't think of it now. Druids are generally better at providing combat support than Clerics, and you can still be a MT (or better, the Arcane Heirophant), and should take care of your mobility concern. Something to consider.
AramilWindwalker 04-29-05, 10:21 PM	maybe wiz3/cleric3/MT6/geomancer8 which is CL13 in wiz and in cleric, if geomancer is spead equally geomancer allows you to use one or the other casting stat when determining spell dcs, so that could solve some of your problems Or just go sorc4/favored soul4/mt10/???2 gets you 7th in both, plus two levels to play with, and you cast spontaneously, and charisma is more important than wis, especially since divine spell dcs aren't as important since you were focusing on healing spells Favored soul is in CD. If you add two levels of sacred exorcist, than you can use the niftily abused feat Divine metamagic(persistant) to be able to buff your buds for all day(shield of faith, GMW, etc or divine power yourself) to save time during battle. Plus your familiar can carry healing spells to your party if you prefer to stay back(it doesn't restrict you to arcane for that ability) hope it helps
jstorrie 04-29-05, 11:16 PM	MT is really not as optimal as it looks unless you pair it with a faster-than-normal spell progression. You might instead consider Favoured Soul 10 / Radiant Servant of Pelor 10. Qualify for RSoP with Magical Training (PGtF) and Arcane Disciple - or a prestige class that can net you a bonus domain before CL 10, if you can find and qualify for one. You'll have a ton of Empowered, Maximized healing spells, be a strong melee force, and have very, very good saves.
Old Man with a Stick 04-29-05, 11:30 PM	4: Wizard 3, 2 ranks each in Knowledge (Arcana) and cross-class Knowledge (Religion) Last time I checked Wizard has Knowledge (ALL) well all taken individually so Knowledge (Religion) is not a cross-class skill for the Wizard. That saves you 2 skill points to put elsewhere.
duhtroll 04-30-05, 11:18 AM	What about the Southern Magic feat (one of the FR books)? It allows one to "cast a divine spell as an arcane spell." The prereq for MT does not say anything about where the divine spell comes from - it simply says "must be able to cast 2nd level divine spells." Has this been erratad or clarified? It seems logical that using a feat to gain the prereq works pretty well. -A
ed209 04-30-05, 02:50 PM	What about the Southern Magic feat (one of the FR books)? It allows one to "cast a divine spell as an arcane spell." The prereq for MT does not say anything about where the divine spell comes from - it simply says "must be able to cast 2nd level divine spells." Has this been erratad or clarified? It seems logical that using a feat to gain the prereq works pretty well. -A ... Thank you! That just gave me the idea for this: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6069111#post6069111
Tempest Stormwind 04-30-05, 02:55 PM	Brain cramp. I just read a PrC that gives the Shape Spell ability other than Archmage, but can't think of it now. I think that's the Recaster, Races of Eberron. Changeling-only, but nifty at what it does. I don't think many wizards will go for it, though, as it loses a caster level and most wizard players are accustomed to PrCs that don't cost you anything in that department. (I'm a psi-favorer, so I'm a bit more used to the whole cost-caster-levels-as-a-balance-for-the-features thing.) And Arcane Disciple spells are still arcane.
MechaboyDos 04-30-05, 03:49 PM	I like this build for Arcane/Divine combinations: Human Lawful Good Paladin 2/Favored Soul 4/Warmage 4/Mystic Theurge 10 Taking Paladin levels gives you Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill, which means you can fulfill the six ranks requirement for Theurge. Favored Soul has Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill, so getting the six ranks from there shouldn't be any problem. You'll have to cross-class one rank of Knowledge (Religion) but that's not a big deal. If you have the Player's Guide to Faerun book, take Spellcasting Prodigy (Charisma) at level 1 to make your Warmage spells harder to save against. Also take Practiced Spellcaster (Favored Soul) so your buff spells have longer duration and higher values and your healing spells do more. Take Battlecaster so you can use medium armor with no spell failure. In total, this package gives you: BAB +12 2d10+4d8+4d6+10d4 HD Favored Soul Caster Level 14 (7th Level Divine Spells) Warmage Caster Level 14 (7th Level Arcane Spells) Fort 11+Con+Cha Ref 8+Dex+Cha Will 15+Wis+Cha No spell failure in Mithral Full Plate The ability to devastate nearly anything with all the Warmage blasting spells The ability to buff and heal with Favored Soul spells All spontaneous spellcasting, no need to prepare Lots of Charisma synergy The only downside is that Favored Soul relies on Wisdom for the purposes of determining save DCs, but if you use those spells mainly for buffing and healing then that won't be a problem. Plus no Turning means you can't take any of those nice Feats that burn turn attempts for bonuses, but you could fix that if you were willing to drop two levels of Theurge and settle for sixth level spells. You also can't use a Heavy Shield due to Warmage restrictions. But if you max out the AC on Mithral Full Plate and a Buckler and use lots of protective items, you'll still be a tank. Take a deity that has Greatsword as its favored weapon since you get free weapon focus with your deity's favored weapon at Favored Soul level 3. You'll be extremely versatile as far as spellcasting goes and you'll still be not half bad in melee, especially if you cast Divine Power on yourself. Get a few wands and scrolls and potions for any arcane spells you want to cast that Warmage doesn't have access to and you'll be good to go.
RogerWilco 04-30-05, 07:22 PM	Wiz3/Drd3/MT2/AH10/MT2 (AH = Arcane Heirophant from Races of the Wild) or Drd4/Wiz1(Diviner)/DO2/AH10/Drd3 (DO = Divine Oracle from Complete Divine) Take the Spontanious Healer feat, to be able to cast all your spells as heal spells, and you're ready to go. The levels 4-7 will be though, but 9th level spells in both arcane and divine, and wildshaping is real nice.
*R* 05-01-05, 03:18 AM	If you have the Player's Guide to Faerun book, take Spellcasting Prodigy (Charisma) at level 1 to make your Warmage spells harder to save against. The 3.5 Spellcasting Prodigy doesn't increase save DC, only bonus spells.
MechaboyDos 05-01-05, 03:24 AM	Damn, you're right. That's pretty ******. Extra spells still don't hurt though. And now that I think about it, taking it for Charisma affects your number of Favored Soul spells per day too.
slade_caizer 05-01-05, 04:32 AM	How about Wizard6/Ur-Priest2/MT8/Geomancer4 [most times i see archmage instead of geomancer, but i wanted to change things up]
Nazzareth 05-01-05, 06:40 AM	The recaster class is great for changling sorcerers as the expanded knowledge ability lets you pick one spell from any other class list to your spells known, you get it twice once at 2nd level and again at 4th now the best two spells I can think for a sorcerer are anyspell and greater anyspell.
ed209 05-01-05, 08:35 AM	How about Wizard6/Ur-Priest2/MT8/Geomancer4 [most times i see archmage instead of geomancer, but i wanted to change things up] ... Wizard 6 does not give you the required Fort 3 for Ur-Priest...
runestar 05-01-05, 10:34 AM	Wizard 6 does not give you the required Fort 3 for Ur-Priest... But I think wiz5/mindbender1 does.
Tempest Stormwind 05-01-05, 11:19 AM	The recaster class is great for changling sorcerers as the expanded knowledge ability lets you pick one spell from any other class list to your spells known, you get it twice once at 2nd level and again at 4th now the best two spells I can think for a sorcerer are anyspell and greater anyspell. Expanded Knowledge is exactly the same as the Extra Spell feat (Complete Arcane), which is itself a magical version of the psionic Expanded Knowledge feat. If you're using the Complete series and all the brokenness it brings with it, you can safely ignore the recaster. If not, the recaster is a wonderfully versatile and interesting caster. By the way, how does Anyspell work for a class that doesn't prepare spells? Anyspell doesn't actually cast the spell in question; it lets you prepare it (so you cast Anyspell and your Cleric of Mystra opens his wizardly spellbook and prepares, say, Scorching Ray, which he can then cast later).
jstorrie 05-01-05, 05:27 PM	A spontaneous caster with access to Anyspell (like a Sorceror or Favoured Soul with Arcane Disciple) can use it to prepare arcane spells. It's a bit of a roundabout way of doing it, though, since there's a feat in CA that lets you prepare some spells too.