Arcane Disciple Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Disciple Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
parad0cz
09-08-06, 10:30 AM Does Arcane Disciple work with a Beguiler(I suppose this is similar to the 'extra spell' debate, but may be different)? If so, would A Beguiler5/Chameleon2 using his floaty feat be able to have different domain access depending on the day?

In that case, the War domain for divine power looks nice... though i might need the Travel domain to Find the Path tommorow. Or the Luck domain, in case i need a Miracle...

Complete Divine blows it wide open. The Oracle and Mind Domains work well with the Beguiler COncept, and if you are neutral you can grab em from Boccob, who doesnt really care.
ChristopherGroves
09-08-06, 10:51 AM Arcane Disciple would work for a Beguiler. Remember it is capped by Wisdom and not your primary casting stat.

Lots of the domains are handy or fun. War is ok, but if you have the SPC there are plenty of better domains that also give you divine power.
parad0cz
09-08-06, 11:39 AM The thing about the floaty feat is you have SO MANY candies to choose from!

Out of all the feats availible(aside from thinks you just want once in awhile, like Item Constrution or maybe the occasional scry spell) I think Arc Disp is the mosst bang for the buck.

So given a true neutral character, what domain would you keep on you for general use? From what god?
prototype00
09-08-06, 11:41 AM I could have sworn the extra spell debate was settled by CustServ already, only spells from your spell list could be taken?

prototype00
DaveTheMagicWeasel
09-08-06, 11:48 AM Wouldn't it be easier to just go all the way to Chameleon 10 and use Divine Focus to get the exact spells that you want on any given day?
ChristopherGroves
09-08-06, 11:54 AM I could have sworn the extra spell debate was settled by CustServ already, only spells from your spell list could be taken?

prototype00

I asked them just the other day about a Warmage specifically and they said "yes, extra spell gets you a wiz/sorc spell you can't otherwise cast". I would say that the debate has been settled as so many have ... somewhat contradictory answers.

For Arcane Disciple though, you can still only cast each spell once a day - that's a limit that is placed square in the feat itself. Sure a Beguiler can take the feat and get 1/day of each spell on the domain ... and those spells would use WIS as their casting stat.
parad0cz
09-08-06, 11:56 AM Chameleon10, only gives 6th level spells, plus really puts a crimp in you spellcasting, skills etc. Beguiler17/Mindbender1/Chameleon2 still has level 9 spells, only loses two levels of spell progression. You even gain a net +2 of Caster Level.

As far as the extra spell thing, i thought i heard that, but i also though there was a ruling on the domain adding with the whole Rainbow Servant thing, in the ASk wizards. There was one answer of DM fiat, and the level 10 ability was a go. Trouble is, its no longer in the archieve, which means either they pulled it or im imagining things.

Once a day is fine for most things. Especially the item idetifiers, find the X spells, scrying. Miricle. Im just looking for the best to suplement the versitility of the beguiler. Divine Power is always fun to add to the mix if you run up against something that doesnt fall to your enchantments, and 14 wis isnt hard for a beguiler. Most spells i imagine casting on myself. Scrying... there is always Owl's Wisdon. I was wondering what would be the best domain to have for general everyday use if you dont know you need a specific one for the day.
Dragon3
09-08-06, 12:51 PM Question. what if you get extra spell after arcane disciple. Would that be a way to get 2 copy of the domain spells?
natural_selection
09-08-06, 02:07 PM I asked them just the other day about a Warmage specifically and they said "yes, extra spell gets you a wiz/sorc spell you can't otherwise cast". I would say that the debate has been settled as so many have ... somewhat contradictory answers.

Well, a warmage gaining access to wiz/sorc spells through extra spell is a different matter than for example a wizard gaining access to devine spells. (Why? Well ecclectic learning in ph2 is the living proof that extra spell is applicable to warmages.)

Actually I am trying to argue since I post on this forums that warmages gain access to wiz/sorc spells through extra spell. Most ppl do not agree with me. Your response from customer service would realy much help me to underline my point of view. Do you have any link to your customer service thread?
DaveTheMagicWeasel
09-08-06, 02:54 PM Question. what if you get extra spell after arcane disciple. Would that be a way to get 2 copy of the domain spells?

No, because Extra Spell would give you an extra spell known, but you would still only have one slot for each spell from Arcane Disciple.

However, you might be able to use Extra Slot for it - depending on how its worded (don't have books to hand to check at minute) and what your DM thinks about the idea.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast
09-08-06, 09:44 PM No, because Extra Spell would give you an extra spell known, but you would still only have one slot for each spell from Arcane Disciple.

I would think that spells added to the spell list via Arcane Disciple would be valid targets for the Extra Spell feat.

Arcane Disciple does two very specific things: it places those domain spells on your spell list and allows you to prepare/cast any of those domain spells once per day.

If we make the limitation that any spell that appears on the chosen domain list can only be cast once per day, we run into this problem: what if one or more of those spells are already on the sorcerer/wizard spell list?

Extra Spell says that you pick any one spell and now you know it. CustServ has, apparently, ruled that this spell must be a spell that is currently on your spell list. Spells gained via Arcane Disciple are valid targets.

I would say that Extra Spell not only allows you to pick up those spells, but would also make whatever the arcane caster's primary casting stat the one that controls.

Of course, this is all just my rantings, which are probably contradicted by some errata or CustServ response that I've never seen.
Hastifer
09-10-06, 05:35 PM On a related note, wouldn't a cleric be allowed to take this feat? The only prereqs I saw were Know (Religion) & Know (Arcana) 4 ranks, and the deity's alignment (which is likely since the deity would be your patron, I'd think). It doesn't say anything about the caster needing to be arcane, despite the actual name of the feat itself.

Is that even worthwhile?
FriendlyFrog
09-10-06, 05:49 PM On a related note, wouldn't a cleric be allowed to take this feat? The only prereqs I saw were Know (Religion) & Know (Arcana) 4 ranks, and the deity's alignment (which is likely since the deity would be your patron, I'd think). It doesn't say anything about the caster needing to be arcane, despite the actual name of the feat itself.
Except that it says:
Add the domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
parad0cz 09-08-06, 10:30 AM	Does Arcane Disciple work with a Beguiler(I suppose this is similar to the 'extra spell' debate, but may be different)? If so, would A Beguiler5/Chameleon2 using his floaty feat be able to have different domain access depending on the day? In that case, the War domain for divine power looks nice... though i might need the Travel domain to Find the Path tommorow. Or the Luck domain, in case i need a Miracle... Complete Divine blows it wide open. The Oracle and Mind Domains work well with the Beguiler COncept, and if you are neutral you can grab em from Boccob, who doesnt really care.
ChristopherGroves 09-08-06, 10:51 AM	Arcane Disciple would work for a Beguiler. Remember it is capped by Wisdom and not your primary casting stat. Lots of the domains are handy or fun. War is ok, but if you have the SPC there are plenty of better domains that also give you divine power.
parad0cz 09-08-06, 11:39 AM	The thing about the floaty feat is you have SO MANY candies to choose from! Out of all the feats availible(aside from thinks you just want once in awhile, like Item Constrution or maybe the occasional scry spell) I think Arc Disp is the mosst bang for the buck. So given a true neutral character, what domain would you keep on you for general use? From what god?
prototype00 09-08-06, 11:41 AM	I could have sworn the extra spell debate was settled by CustServ already, only spells from your spell list could be taken? prototype00
DaveTheMagicWeasel 09-08-06, 11:48 AM	Wouldn't it be easier to just go all the way to Chameleon 10 and use Divine Focus to get the exact spells that you want on any given day?
ChristopherGroves 09-08-06, 11:54 AM	I could have sworn the extra spell debate was settled by CustServ already, only spells from your spell list could be taken? prototype00 I asked them just the other day about a Warmage specifically and they said "yes, extra spell gets you a wiz/sorc spell you can't otherwise cast". I would say that the debate has been settled as so many have ... somewhat contradictory answers. For Arcane Disciple though, you can still only cast each spell once a day - that's a limit that is placed square in the feat itself. Sure a Beguiler can take the feat and get 1/day of each spell on the domain ... and those spells would use WIS as their casting stat.
parad0cz 09-08-06, 11:56 AM	Chameleon10, only gives 6th level spells, plus really puts a crimp in you spellcasting, skills etc. Beguiler17/Mindbender1/Chameleon2 still has level 9 spells, only loses two levels of spell progression. You even gain a net +2 of Caster Level. As far as the extra spell thing, i thought i heard that, but i also though there was a ruling on the domain adding with the whole Rainbow Servant thing, in the ASk wizards. There was one answer of DM fiat, and the level 10 ability was a go. Trouble is, its no longer in the archieve, which means either they pulled it or im imagining things. Once a day is fine for most things. Especially the item idetifiers, find the X spells, scrying. Miricle. Im just looking for the best to suplement the versitility of the beguiler. Divine Power is always fun to add to the mix if you run up against something that doesnt fall to your enchantments, and 14 wis isnt hard for a beguiler. Most spells i imagine casting on myself. Scrying... there is always Owl's Wisdon. I was wondering what would be the best domain to have for general everyday use if you dont know you need a specific one for the day.
Dragon3 09-08-06, 12:51 PM	Question. what if you get extra spell after arcane disciple. Would that be a way to get 2 copy of the domain spells?
natural_selection 09-08-06, 02:07 PM	I asked them just the other day about a Warmage specifically and they said "yes, extra spell gets you a wiz/sorc spell you can't otherwise cast". I would say that the debate has been settled as so many have ... somewhat contradictory answers. Well, a warmage gaining access to wiz/sorc spells through extra spell is a different matter than for example a wizard gaining access to devine spells. (Why? Well ecclectic learning in ph2 is the living proof that extra spell is applicable to warmages.) Actually I am trying to argue since I post on this forums that warmages gain access to wiz/sorc spells through extra spell. Most ppl do not agree with me. Your response from customer service would realy much help me to underline my point of view. Do you have any link to your customer service thread?
DaveTheMagicWeasel 09-08-06, 02:54 PM	Question. what if you get extra spell after arcane disciple. Would that be a way to get 2 copy of the domain spells? No, because Extra Spell would give you an extra spell known, but you would still only have one slot for each spell from Arcane Disciple. However, you might be able to use Extra Slot for it - depending on how its worded (don't have books to hand to check at minute) and what your DM thinks about the idea.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 09-08-06, 09:44 PM	No, because Extra Spell would give you an extra spell known, but you would still only have one slot for each spell from Arcane Disciple. I would think that spells added to the spell list via Arcane Disciple would be valid targets for the Extra Spell feat. Arcane Disciple does two very specific things: it places those domain spells on your spell list and allows you to prepare/cast any of those domain spells once per day. If we make the limitation that any spell that appears on the chosen domain list can only be cast once per day, we run into this problem: what if one or more of those spells are already on the sorcerer/wizard spell list? Extra Spell says that you pick any one spell and now you know it. CustServ has, apparently, ruled that this spell must be a spell that is currently on your spell list. Spells gained via Arcane Disciple are valid targets. I would say that Extra Spell not only allows you to pick up those spells, but would also make whatever the arcane caster's primary casting stat the one that controls. Of course, this is all just my rantings, which are probably contradicted by some errata or CustServ response that I've never seen.
Hastifer 09-10-06, 05:35 PM	On a related note, wouldn't a cleric be allowed to take this feat? The only prereqs I saw were Know (Religion) & Know (Arcana) 4 ranks, and the deity's alignment (which is likely since the deity would be your patron, I'd think). It doesn't say anything about the caster needing to be arcane, despite the actual name of the feat itself. Is that even worthwhile?
FriendlyFrog 09-10-06, 05:49 PM	On a related note, wouldn't a cleric be allowed to take this feat? The only prereqs I saw were Know (Religion) & Know (Arcana) 4 ranks, and the deity's alignment (which is likely since the deity would be your patron, I'd think). It doesn't say anything about the caster needing to be arcane, despite the actual name of the feat itself. Except that it says: Add the domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells.