Arcane duelist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane duelist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kamikaze Chicken
10-22-05, 10:15 PM Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)

here is a fun class that I once played by using the build
Bard 8/ Arcane duelist 10

i think how ever, that wizard3/fighter1/eldritch knight 4/ arcane duelist 10 might be better flavor wise.

i think this classis worth a look, i could not find any previous threads devoted to it, so lets see the Optimization begin! :smirk:

KAMIKAZE! :chicken:
runestar
10-22-05, 10:57 PM Don't you at least need wiz5 to be an EK?

Is there a 3.5 update of arcane duelist? I guess the cha bonus to ac would be capped at AD lvs, but apart from that, nothing much should change.
Tempest Stormwind
10-22-05, 11:20 PM There's no official AD update. However, my intuition says pretty much the same thing as yours for updates. It really wasn't that wrong in the end. (EDIT: However, False Keenness may need a minor update on stacking. Keen effects, in general, do not stack in 3.5. I dislike this rule in general, but by a strict reading, False Keenness shouldn't stack with anything. And as long as we're tinkering, Mirror Image could use a bit of clarification -- is it a once per day thing, or is it once per day per level like most of that class' abilities?)

(By the way, it just requires arcane spellcasting, like the arcane archer. In many ways, it's the melee version of that class.)

There's a bit of a stunt, actually, using the Illumians (from Races of Destiny) to get powerful magic and combat ability starting from level 2, that works pretty nicely in with Charisma synergy, although it does require two flaws to pull off at that level. (Flaws are in Unearthed Arcana, if you aren't familiar with them, they're essentially antifeats -- you take a huge hit to something critical with them, but you get a bonus feat.)

1st level Illumian Sorceror, with the Krau sigil (which adds +1 caster level to all your spells and spell-like abilities). Take Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane), learning a 2nd level spell of your choice (and this is, in a sense, a sorceror-flavored feat, compared to the wizard's Collegiate Wizard). For your first flaw feat, take Improved Sigil (Krau), also from Races of Destiny, which lets you pick a number of spells you know equal to your number of sigils (2 here) to cast at +1 spell level -- be sure to pick your Precocious spell. For your last flaw feat, Militia (Player's Guide to Faerun, most recently) is your man.

Net result? Sorceror 1, able to cast 3rd level spells, proficiency with all martial weapons.

In other words, level 2 Eldritch Knight.

And it currently has no errata.

It should also work with a bard, if you'd prefer. I'd personally prefer you to use your EK levels to lead into Knight Phantom (Five Nations), which costs you an extra caster level, but grants you light armor casting along with the same benefits as EK, but with actual class features. From there, Arcane Duelist is okay if you wish to keep fighting, or continuing these PrCs (along with, perhaps, a level in Spellsword (Complete Warrior) to avoid some shield casting problems, and Dragonslayer (Draconomicon) if you want all armor/shield proficiencies (qualifies for Spellsword) and Aura of Courage) if you want to remain a decent gish instead of merely a good warrior with a bit of magic.
Kamikaze Chicken
10-22-05, 11:40 PM the tenth level ability leaves me with one question....

Do the mirror images do damage only on the first use of the ability or do they continue to attack and damage each turn they persist?

i would assume they only do the subdual damage on the first turn, but if the second option were the case it would be ungodly damage even if just subdual.

I also agree with the lvl cap to cha mod to AC, so i guess for an uber-meleer you could go for a bard duelist/arcane duelist with dex int and cha all to ac. Wear light amour for no arcane spell failure of bard spells and the duelist abilities, and designate your one handed light piercing weapon as your favored weapon for arcane duelist. Dear god this class would be amazingly fun to play if you focused on the bardic abilities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kamikaze Chicken 10-22-05, 10:15 PM	Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) here is a fun class that I once played by using the build Bard 8/ Arcane duelist 10 i think how ever, that wizard3/fighter1/eldritch knight 4/ arcane duelist 10 might be better flavor wise. i think this classis worth a look, i could not find any previous threads devoted to it, so lets see the Optimization begin! :smirk: KAMIKAZE! :chicken:
runestar 10-22-05, 10:57 PM	Don't you at least need wiz5 to be an EK? Is there a 3.5 update of arcane duelist? I guess the cha bonus to ac would be capped at AD lvs, but apart from that, nothing much should change.
Tempest Stormwind 10-22-05, 11:20 PM	There's no official AD update. However, my intuition says pretty much the same thing as yours for updates. It really wasn't that wrong in the end. (EDIT: However, False Keenness may need a minor update on stacking. Keen effects, in general, do not stack in 3.5. I dislike this rule in general, but by a strict reading, False Keenness shouldn't stack with anything. And as long as we're tinkering, Mirror Image could use a bit of clarification -- is it a once per day thing, or is it once per day per level like most of that class' abilities?) (By the way, it just requires arcane spellcasting, like the arcane archer. In many ways, it's the melee version of that class.) There's a bit of a stunt, actually, using the Illumians (from Races of Destiny) to get powerful magic and combat ability starting from level 2, that works pretty nicely in with Charisma synergy, although it does require two flaws to pull off at that level. (Flaws are in Unearthed Arcana, if you aren't familiar with them, they're essentially antifeats -- you take a huge hit to something critical with them, but you get a bonus feat.) 1st level Illumian Sorceror, with the Krau sigil (which adds +1 caster level to all your spells and spell-like abilities). Take Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane), learning a 2nd level spell of your choice (and this is, in a sense, a sorceror-flavored feat, compared to the wizard's Collegiate Wizard). For your first flaw feat, take Improved Sigil (Krau), also from Races of Destiny, which lets you pick a number of spells you know equal to your number of sigils (2 here) to cast at +1 spell level -- be sure to pick your Precocious spell. For your last flaw feat, Militia (Player's Guide to Faerun, most recently) is your man. Net result? Sorceror 1, able to cast 3rd level spells, proficiency with all martial weapons. In other words, level 2 Eldritch Knight. And it currently has no errata. It should also work with a bard, if you'd prefer. I'd personally prefer you to use your EK levels to lead into Knight Phantom (Five Nations), which costs you an extra caster level, but grants you light armor casting along with the same benefits as EK, but with actual class features. From there, Arcane Duelist is okay if you wish to keep fighting, or continuing these PrCs (along with, perhaps, a level in Spellsword (Complete Warrior) to avoid some shield casting problems, and Dragonslayer (Draconomicon) if you want all armor/shield proficiencies (qualifies for Spellsword) and Aura of Courage) if you want to remain a decent gish instead of merely a good warrior with a bit of magic.
Kamikaze Chicken 10-22-05, 11:40 PM	the tenth level ability leaves me with one question.... Do the mirror images do damage only on the first use of the ability or do they continue to attack and damage each turn they persist? i would assume they only do the subdual damage on the first turn, but if the second option were the case it would be ungodly damage even if just subdual. I also agree with the lvl cap to cha mod to AC, so i guess for an uber-meleer you could go for a bard duelist/arcane duelist with dex int and cha all to ac. Wear light amour for no arcane spell failure of bard spells and the duelist abilities, and designate your one handed light piercing weapon as your favored weapon for arcane duelist. Dear god this class would be amazingly fun to play if you focused on the bardic abilities.