Arcane Duelist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Duelist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 04:22 PM Hello, this post is to people who have Complete Arcane. My GM is going to make non-lethal arcane dueling a big tradition in our game, and I'm wondering how best to exploit this. I am looking for the best caster build that is optimized for dueling. Please include only material from the SRD, Complete Arcane, and the specialist wizard variants from Unearthed Arcana.
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 04:27 PM BTW, since we are using the specialist wizard variants, I am leaning towards Abjurer9/IotSV10/Archmage1. Am I going the right way? IS this the best possible?-R
Mirikon
11-28-04, 05:12 PM Well, if you're using the mageduel rules from Forgotten Realms, I'd say just go straight ahead with the attack spells. Grab the Spellfire Wielder feat, and use that for defense. Invoker 5/Spellfire Wielder 10/Archmage 5. Trust me, this kicks ass if you're only using spells to attack eachother.
Megrim_Lord
11-28-04, 06:32 PM Warmages work wonders if you are going for purely offensive spellcasting.
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 06:40 PM Well, if you're using the mageduel rules from Forgotten Realms, I'd say just go straight ahead with the attack spells. Grab the Spellfire Wielder feat, and use that for defense. Invoker 5/Spellfire Wielder 10/Archmage 5. Trust me, this kicks ass if you're only using spells to attack eachother.

We are using the mageduel rules from Complete Arcane, they are different than the ones from FR. Although Spellfire wielder does look like a cool way to do this.-R
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 06:46 PM Warmages work wonders if you are going for purely offensive spellcasting.

Warmage is interesting, and I'm sure I will duel against a few, but it's hardly optimized. I will need to counterspell at least once (which i why I am leaning towards an Unearthed Arcana Abjurer, who can spontaneously cast dispel magic) and also summons are useful to protect me from their summons and to get two attacks per round on them if they don't have summons. Warmages are nice against armies of low level creatures. Against an equal level wiz or sorc optimized for dueling, they have no chance.
Aznar Thrul
11-28-04, 07:10 PM You need to ask Your DM to use the spellfire wielder feats and if Your DM is not stupid he will not allow it

if he allow it he should send at you horde of mage he could send you a 25th level mage at you cause the rumor that if you kill a spellfire wielder you become one(wich is false) but many organisation will try to kill you like the red wizard, zentarrim, shade..

and if a mage kill u while u sleep with his dagger wich is pretty simple when you are level 25 mage lich with some level of rogue; teleport, use move silently use silent spell to disable the defense if they were some and there ya go

spellfire wielder feat may seems powerful but taking it and planning to use it is signing your death

also an evoker 5/spellfire chaneller 10 or channeler gotta go check the diff between them can't be an archmage

there hope you can read now
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 07:16 PM u need to ask ur DM to use the spellfire wielder feats and if ur DM is not stupid he will not allow it, also if he allow it he should send at you horde of mage he could send you a 25th level mage at you cause the rumor that if u kill a spellfire wielder u become one(wich is false) but many organisation will try to kill u like the red wizard, zentarrim, shade, and not talkin about all the induvidual lich out there :D

and u cant use ur spellfire wielder feats if a mage kill u while u sleep with his dagger wich is pretty simple when ur a level 25 mage lich with some level of rogue teleport, use move silently use silent spell to disable the defense if they were some and there ya go spellfire wielder feat may seems powerful but takin it and plannin to use it is signin ur death

I am really sorry, but I have trouble reading posts like this. Could you please edit to clean up spelling and grammar?
Ramses III
11-28-04, 07:37 PM Your initial build is pretty close in line with how I was looking at doing the same thing, though I wasn't planning on using Initiate of the Seven Veils at first. Note that the class has only 7 levels of progression, not 10. I would recommend Abjurer for the remaining levels, or taking maybe 2 levels of Geometer just because Book of Geometry rocks as much as it does.

The spell Duelward is going to be your best friend here, quicken it as soon as you hit level 17. Also at level 15 or thereabouts make sure you have Craft Rod; 15 is the caster level for a Rod of Absorption. If the duels are nonlethal you are of course at a great advantage to take Nonlethal Substitution instead of trying to pull your damage. I hope all of this helps -- happy duelling!
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 07:44 PM Your initial build is pretty close in line with how I was looking at doing the same thing, though I wasn't planning on using Initiate of the Seven Veils at first. Note that the class has only 7 levels of progression, not 10. I would recommend Abjurer for the remaining levels, or taking maybe 2 levels of Geometer just because Book of Geometry rocks as much as it does.

So you are suggesting Abjurer9/IotSV7/Geo2/Archmage2?

That does look cool. When should I pick up Geo? before or after IotSV7?
Fălenganor
11-28-04, 07:53 PM Well, if you're using the mageduel rules from Forgotten Realms, I'd say just go straight ahead with the attack spells. Grab the Spellfire Wielder feat, and use that for defense. Invoker 5/Spellfire Wielder 10/Archmage 5. Trust me, this kicks ass if you're only using spells to attack eachother.
Isn't Spellfire Wielder a feat?
Ramses III
11-28-04, 07:53 PM Before. Geo's minimum level is 6; IotSV's is 9.
Ryan_Singer
11-28-04, 08:03 PM So Abjurer6/Geo2/IotSV7/Archmage5.

I like. Thank you Ramses, I think we have found my build. The only downside, is that it is not epic-ready. I will just hope this campaign doesn't go epic.-R
saethar
11-28-04, 08:04 PM Isn't Spellfire Wielder a feat?Yes, but there is also (now two) a spellfire PrC in MoF (and an epic one in PGtF).

Saethar
:b:
Fălenganor
11-28-04, 08:11 PM But they don't have spellcasting progression, making it unable to take archamage.
Ramses III
11-28-04, 08:26 PM If you do think it will go epic, Ryan, I would just recommend Abj 19 and Acm 1, at the first level you can take it for the Mastery of Counterspelling. Just out of curiosity, what other High Arcana would you take? All Spell Power would make the most sense to me, as the caster level jump to your dispel checks would make GDM hot for the counterspelling, and make it way worth it to take Arcane Mastery. Best of luck! :D
catharz
11-29-04, 12:07 AM Here is a 20th level build, using Races of Stone and Dragon 280:

Dream dwarf
Sorcerer (Dwarf sub 1&9) 10/Eldritch master 6/Archmage 4
1:Sor 1
10:Sor 10
11:Sor 10/EM 1
16:Sor 10/EM 6
17:Sor 10/EM 6/Archmage 1
20:Sor 10/EM 6/Archmage 4

Feats (9)~ 1(Level: Improved initiative), 3(Level: Spell focus (Transmutation)), 6(Level: Combat reflexes), 9(Level: Improved counterspell), 12(Level: Spell focus (Necromancy)), 13(Eldritch master: Heighten spell), 15(Level: Skill focus (Spellcraft)), 16(Eldritch master: Quicken spell), 18(Level: Reactive conterspell).

Total feats: 9, 7 level, 2 Eldritch master.

The goal is to get Mastery of counterspells and all of the prerequisites for Epic counterspell by level 20 as a sorcerer, without any banned schools. It also should use the racial substitution levels.

Otherwise, a Human Sorcerer 12/Eldritch master 3/Archmage 5 could also do it, or if you want to be core a Fighter 1/Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5.
Ryan_Singer
11-29-04, 12:18 AM Otherwise, a Human Sorcerer 12/Eldritch master 3/Archmage 5 could also do it, or if you want to be core a Fighter 1/Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5.

Why sorc over wiz? and why lose the first/last level of spellcasting by taking fighter?
catharz
11-29-04, 12:21 AM Why sorc over wiz?
Spontanious spellcasting. The other decent option for that is Dweomercheater. Hmm, I'll have to look into a dweomercheater wizard or cleric build...
and why lose the first/last level of spellcasting by taking fighter?
To get 9 feats by level 20 ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 04:22 PM	Hello, this post is to people who have Complete Arcane. My GM is going to make non-lethal arcane dueling a big tradition in our game, and I'm wondering how best to exploit this. I am looking for the best caster build that is optimized for dueling. Please include only material from the SRD, Complete Arcane, and the specialist wizard variants from Unearthed Arcana.
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 04:27 PM	BTW, since we are using the specialist wizard variants, I am leaning towards Abjurer9/IotSV10/Archmage1. Am I going the right way? IS this the best possible?-R
Mirikon 11-28-04, 05:12 PM	Well, if you're using the mageduel rules from Forgotten Realms, I'd say just go straight ahead with the attack spells. Grab the Spellfire Wielder feat, and use that for defense. Invoker 5/Spellfire Wielder 10/Archmage 5. Trust me, this kicks ass if you're only using spells to attack eachother.
Megrim_Lord 11-28-04, 06:32 PM	Warmages work wonders if you are going for purely offensive spellcasting.
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 06:40 PM	Well, if you're using the mageduel rules from Forgotten Realms, I'd say just go straight ahead with the attack spells. Grab the Spellfire Wielder feat, and use that for defense. Invoker 5/Spellfire Wielder 10/Archmage 5. Trust me, this kicks ass if you're only using spells to attack eachother. We are using the mageduel rules from Complete Arcane, they are different than the ones from FR. Although Spellfire wielder does look like a cool way to do this.-R
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 06:46 PM	Warmages work wonders if you are going for purely offensive spellcasting. Warmage is interesting, and I'm sure I will duel against a few, but it's hardly optimized. I will need to counterspell at least once (which i why I am leaning towards an Unearthed Arcana Abjurer, who can spontaneously cast dispel magic) and also summons are useful to protect me from their summons and to get two attacks per round on them if they don't have summons. Warmages are nice against armies of low level creatures. Against an equal level wiz or sorc optimized for dueling, they have no chance.
Aznar Thrul 11-28-04, 07:10 PM	You need to ask Your DM to use the spellfire wielder feats and if Your DM is not stupid he will not allow it if he allow it he should send at you horde of mage he could send you a 25th level mage at you cause the rumor that if you kill a spellfire wielder you become one(wich is false) but many organisation will try to kill you like the red wizard, zentarrim, shade.. and if a mage kill u while u sleep with his dagger wich is pretty simple when you are level 25 mage lich with some level of rogue; teleport, use move silently use silent spell to disable the defense if they were some and there ya go spellfire wielder feat may seems powerful but taking it and planning to use it is signing your death also an evoker 5/spellfire chaneller 10 or channeler gotta go check the diff between them can't be an archmage there hope you can read now
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 07:16 PM	u need to ask ur DM to use the spellfire wielder feats and if ur DM is not stupid he will not allow it, also if he allow it he should send at you horde of mage he could send you a 25th level mage at you cause the rumor that if u kill a spellfire wielder u become one(wich is false) but many organisation will try to kill u like the red wizard, zentarrim, shade, and not talkin about all the induvidual lich out there :D and u cant use ur spellfire wielder feats if a mage kill u while u sleep with his dagger wich is pretty simple when ur a level 25 mage lich with some level of rogue teleport, use move silently use silent spell to disable the defense if they were some and there ya go spellfire wielder feat may seems powerful but takin it and plannin to use it is signin ur death I am really sorry, but I have trouble reading posts like this. Could you please edit to clean up spelling and grammar?
Ramses III 11-28-04, 07:37 PM	Your initial build is pretty close in line with how I was looking at doing the same thing, though I wasn't planning on using Initiate of the Seven Veils at first. Note that the class has only 7 levels of progression, not 10. I would recommend Abjurer for the remaining levels, or taking maybe 2 levels of Geometer just because Book of Geometry rocks as much as it does. The spell Duelward is going to be your best friend here, quicken it as soon as you hit level 17. Also at level 15 or thereabouts make sure you have Craft Rod; 15 is the caster level for a Rod of Absorption. If the duels are nonlethal you are of course at a great advantage to take Nonlethal Substitution instead of trying to pull your damage. I hope all of this helps -- happy duelling!
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 07:44 PM	Your initial build is pretty close in line with how I was looking at doing the same thing, though I wasn't planning on using Initiate of the Seven Veils at first. Note that the class has only 7 levels of progression, not 10. I would recommend Abjurer for the remaining levels, or taking maybe 2 levels of Geometer just because Book of Geometry rocks as much as it does. So you are suggesting Abjurer9/IotSV7/Geo2/Archmage2? That does look cool. When should I pick up Geo? before or after IotSV7?
Fălenganor 11-28-04, 07:53 PM	Well, if you're using the mageduel rules from Forgotten Realms, I'd say just go straight ahead with the attack spells. Grab the Spellfire Wielder feat, and use that for defense. Invoker 5/Spellfire Wielder 10/Archmage 5. Trust me, this kicks ass if you're only using spells to attack eachother. Isn't Spellfire Wielder a feat?
Ramses III 11-28-04, 07:53 PM	Before. Geo's minimum level is 6; IotSV's is 9.
Ryan_Singer 11-28-04, 08:03 PM	So Abjurer6/Geo2/IotSV7/Archmage5. I like. Thank you Ramses, I think we have found my build. The only downside, is that it is not epic-ready. I will just hope this campaign doesn't go epic.-R
saethar 11-28-04, 08:04 PM	Isn't Spellfire Wielder a feat?Yes, but there is also (now two) a spellfire PrC in MoF (and an epic one in PGtF). Saethar :b:
Fălenganor 11-28-04, 08:11 PM	But they don't have spellcasting progression, making it unable to take archamage.
Ramses III 11-28-04, 08:26 PM	If you do think it will go epic, Ryan, I would just recommend Abj 19 and Acm 1, at the first level you can take it for the Mastery of Counterspelling. Just out of curiosity, what other High Arcana would you take? All Spell Power would make the most sense to me, as the caster level jump to your dispel checks would make GDM hot for the counterspelling, and make it way worth it to take Arcane Mastery. Best of luck! :D
catharz 11-29-04, 12:07 AM	Here is a 20th level build, using Races of Stone and Dragon 280: Dream dwarf Sorcerer (Dwarf sub 1&9) 10/Eldritch master 6/Archmage 4 1:Sor 1 10:Sor 10 11:Sor 10/EM 1 16:Sor 10/EM 6 17:Sor 10/EM 6/Archmage 1 20:Sor 10/EM 6/Archmage 4 Feats (9)~ 1(Level: Improved initiative), 3(Level: Spell focus (Transmutation)), 6(Level: Combat reflexes), 9(Level: Improved counterspell), 12(Level: Spell focus (Necromancy)), 13(Eldritch master: Heighten spell), 15(Level: Skill focus (Spellcraft)), 16(Eldritch master: Quicken spell), 18(Level: Reactive conterspell). Total feats: 9, 7 level, 2 Eldritch master. The goal is to get Mastery of counterspells and all of the prerequisites for Epic counterspell by level 20 as a sorcerer, without any banned schools. It also should use the racial substitution levels. Otherwise, a Human Sorcerer 12/Eldritch master 3/Archmage 5 could also do it, or if you want to be core a Fighter 1/Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5.
Ryan_Singer 11-29-04, 12:18 AM	Otherwise, a Human Sorcerer 12/Eldritch master 3/Archmage 5 could also do it, or if you want to be core a Fighter 1/Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5. Why sorc over wiz? and why lose the first/last level of spellcasting by taking fighter?
catharz 11-29-04, 12:21 AM	Why sorc over wiz? Spontanious spellcasting. The other decent option for that is Dweomercheater. Hmm, I'll have to look into a dweomercheater wizard or cleric build... and why lose the first/last level of spellcasting by taking fighter? To get 9 feats by level 20 ;)