Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khan the Destroyer 02-16-05, 11:00 PM	Is there any way to optimize Arcane Heirophant with Fochluchan Lyrist? With Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 you can get 9th level spells in both wizard and divine without being exalted (Apostle of Peace) or utterly evil (Ur-priest). It has to be druid spells, but still, it is 9th level spells in two classes, and you can wild shape as a 13th level Druid, and have no Arcane Spell Failure in armor that Druids can wear. Anywho, I was wondering if there was anyway that you guys and gals might be able to optimize this with the Fochluchan Lyrist, to continue advancing both spell lists, but while gaining 1 BAB/HD as well. I can't think of any way to do it without losing 9th level spells, so I figured I would try here. The idea is to get 9th level spells in both wizard and druid, get as much Wildshape as possible, and a 16 BAB.
Tempest Stormwind 02-16-05, 11:27 PM	Where is the Arcane Heirophant? I have never once heard of such a class.
catharz 02-17-05, 12:04 AM	Where is the Arcane Heirophant? I have never once heard of such a class. Races of the Wild would be my guess. Is it an Elf PrC?
Khan the Destroyer 02-17-05, 12:20 AM	The Arcane Heirophant is in Races of the Wild. It adds to arcane and divine spellcasting and wildshape, with medium BAB. Also, scratch the "as much wildshape as possible" bit. I thought Fochluchan Lyrist added to wildshape but it doesn't. And no, it is not an elf-only prestige class. Let's see. Bard 2/Druid 3/Arcane Heirophant 5/Fochluchan Lyrist 10 This build would assume Precocious Apprentice to get into Arcane Heirophant, and a Ring of Evasion for Fochluchan Lyrist. HD: 17d6+3d8= BAB: +16 Saves: 7/12/17 Caster Level: Druid 18 (9th level spells) Caster Level: Bard 17 (6th level spells) Wildshape: 8th level Druid Bardic Knowledge/Music: 12th level Bard I know, if the character lost the Ring of Evasion he would lose most abilities from Fochluchan Lyrist. And Precocious Apprentice probably can't be used that way. I would like to work wizard in there instead of bard, but I am not sure how without losing Bardic Knowledge. Any thoughts? EDIT: I just noticed the +4 BAB requirement on Arcane Heirophant. So, I guess you can't get 9th level spells in both Druid and Wizard by level 20. And the build I posted wouldn't work (despite the Ring of Evasion and Precocious Apprentice :)). RE-EDIT: Ok. I was wrong. You should still be able to get 9th level spells in both. Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 4/Arcane Heirophant 10 should still work. I'm an idiot.
Iaimeki 02-17-05, 03:20 AM	I know, if the character lost the Ring of Evasion he would lose most abilities from Fochluchan Lyrist. And Precocious Apprentice probably can't be used that way. I would like to work wizard in there instead of bard, but I am not sure how without losing Bardic Knowledge. Any thoughts? Glad you asked. Look here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=377248. I don't have details on the Arcane Hierophant yet, so I can't make intelligent commentary.
Sang-Drax 02-17-05, 11:09 AM	Hmmm If you're going to Wildshape, I think Fochlucan Lyrist is hardly a good option. I'd choose classes that improve wild shape instead (that is, druid or nature's warrior). Druid 3/Battlesorcerer 4/Arcane Hierophant 9/Nature's Warrior 3 Caster Level (divine): 14th (7th level spells) Caster Level (arcane): 14th (7th level spells) BAB +15 Wild Shape 17th level - augmented by Nature's Warrior cool features. Pretty decent hps (7d8+10d6+3d10) Note that I've never as much as peered into this PrC; I'm assuming it grants +3/4 BAB from what you've posted. edit: bah. I had made a 21-level build with +16 BAB. I'll have to think about another way of accomplishing that.
El_Machinae 02-17-05, 01:11 PM	I'm a rookie to druids (I watch someone play a druid, at our gaming table) - but does the 16 BAB really matter? For a fighter, they're iterative attacks. But a druid would be using some multi-attack tree anyway, right?
Sang-Drax 02-17-05, 03:04 PM	El Machinae yes, I think you're right. It hardly matters... but the thread starter wanted it, so I tried :)
Khan the Destroyer 02-18-05, 07:55 PM	Well, I realized that Fochluchan Lyrist doesn't stack with Wild Shape, so I thought a wanderer type character would be cool. One that is a decent fighter, and has access to powerful divine and arcane magic, with a slew of other abilities (wild shape, and bardic abilities maybe). So, since the Wild Shape won't be as strong as possible, I figured a 16 BAB was in order :). As for whether you gain Wild Shape or not, it depends. The AH levels stack with Druid levels, so as long as you hit effective Druid level 5, you have it.
Timespike 02-18-05, 10:25 PM	I know, if the character lost the Ring of Evasion he would lose most abilities from Fochluchan Lyrist. And Precocious Apprentice probably can't be used that way. I would like to work wizard in there instead of bard, but I am not sure how without losing Bardic Knowledge. Any thoughts? Illumian Loredelver gives bardic knowledge and evasion in 3 levels, but I'm not entirely sure that would gain you anything.
AlienFromBeyond 02-19-05, 12:05 AM	Green Whisperer is better than Arcane Heirophant for a Fochlucan Lyrist build IMO. You get them both before Lyrist, as it is superior to either, but Green Whisperer improves your Bardic Music+Knowledge in addition to the Lyrist, making them worthwhile (especially with the Bardic Music version of Divine Metamagic ). Your Wildshape will be prety useless, as you won't have many classes adding to it. Plus, it's easier to get into Green Whisperer and it's just darn cooler :cool:.