Arcane Heirophant Totemist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Heirophant Totemist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bonzai
04-06-06, 03:48 PM I was posting on the jack of all trades thread, when an idea struck me. Totemist 2/Druid 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 2.

Why the two level dip into Totemist? Because at level 2 you get the ability to bind to your Totem Chakra. So I get 3 melds, one bind, and I believe 2 essentia. Thats a nice selection of melds and binds in it's self. However, what makes it better is the Share soulmeld feat. With it, your familiar/animal companion also benefits from your soul melds.

So your Owl familiar/companion can throw manticore spikes from the air, Or your Dire Bear can have an extra set of arms and claw attacks. If you have a decent offensive soulmeld shaped, you can save spell slots for utility.

With the apprentice feats, you will only be one caster level behind a pure wizard or druid. You won't gain lvl 9 spells till the epic levels.

So the questions are: A) Do you think this is viable? B) what feats should I use? C) what melds do you think would work best use for combat in general?

Feat wise, I am going to get Share Soulmeld, probably at lvl 3, and bonus essentia some time latter. Other than that, I am all open to suggestions!
Bonzai
04-07-06, 05:30 PM anyone?
Bonzai
04-14-06, 02:50 PM bump
Ashlan
04-14-06, 02:55 PM I think the biggest issue with this build is that you are spreading yourself too thin. You lose 9th level spells for both arcane and divine. Your animal companion/familiar might be better with the 9th level buffs.

Ash
Jozell
04-14-06, 05:13 PM But I believe he is saying when he hits epic he will get those spells which is correct and if he plans on taking the character epic well then I see no problem with it as long as he keeps his CL up.
Ashlan
04-14-06, 06:22 PM But I believe he is saying when he hits epic he will get those spells which is correct and if he plans on taking the character epic well then I see no problem with it as long as he keeps his CL up.

Ok, so you can get the 9th levels spells in epic. How does an 8th level character who can't cast anything above a 2nd level spell and has a BAB of 4 sound?
Tempest Stormwind
04-14-06, 06:36 PM Share Soulmeld doesn't let your familiar or animal companion benefit from your chakra binds, just your soulmelds. Thought I should mention that.
BreakfastNinja
04-14-06, 06:56 PM If you get an accelerated casting class, you might fit 9th level spells.

Suel Arcanamach gets you 2nd level arcane in 2 levels, but... *sigh* still won't net you 9th levels, with just Druid/AH/MT. I think Ashlan's got it down, that the build will be too thin, all through earlier levels.. it catches up almost at the end, but that still doesn't get you the best part of druid or wizard till EPIC. For buffing an animal companion, eh, there's... *thinks* Beastmaster, the halfling supermount builds, and others... but for this... maybe an Apostle of Peace. :rolleyes: if Soulmelds aren't equipment, they just take up slots, then, a VoP Totemist...
*thinks*

2 Totemist,
3 Druid
3 Wizard
2 Apostle of Peace
10 Arcane Hierophant

would get you 9th level spells at the end.

... good luck,

BN
Bonzai
04-15-06, 11:43 AM Share Soulmeld doesn't let your familiar or animal companion benefit from your chakra binds, just your soulmelds. Thought I should mention that.

It doesn't? I thought it shared the benefits of the melds, including those from being bound, and with essentia being invested. I.E. it gains all the effects that you do.

If it doesn't work that way, then the feat is a lot less potent. Many melds are faily worthless without essentia invested in to them, or the proper bind. So if this is true, then I'd better re-think this build.

Have you seen any rulings on this?
Tempest Stormwind
04-15-06, 01:01 PM It doesn't? I thought it shared the benefits of the melds, including those from being bound, and with essentia being invested. I.E. it gains all the effects that you do.

If it doesn't work that way, then the feat is a lot less potent. Many melds are faily worthless without essentia invested in to them, or the proper bind. So if this is true, then I'd better re-think this build.

Have you seen any rulings on this?
The wording on share soulmeld says "Soulmeld" quite clearly. The benefit from chakra binds is separate.

If you want to view it another way, fine you share the full benefit of the meld, including it's ability to be bound to a chakra (treating the familiar/companion as if it had shaped the meld) but unless it has some way of binding to a chakra, it can't gain benefits from the chakra bind.

Note that this is impossible in all of the above, though a psicrystal might be able to do it (since they actually gain HD, and thus, feats).
Bonzai
04-15-06, 03:51 PM Hmm... I'm going to re-read the that section again. I was under the impression that the abilites granted were a function of the soul meld it's self, wether it was bound, unbound, or had essentia invested into it. Soulmelds give different effects depending on what is done to them. So if a Soul Caster with a familar and the share soulmeld feat binds a meld to his chakra, and invest essentia into it it gives an effect, and that effect is shared with his familiar, as that is the effect of that particular soul meld.

I can see your point from a rules lawyer stand point, but like so many other things in this game it is unlear. It doesn't say that the bonuses from invested essentia and binds don't carry over either. To me, it would be like saying that yes, a wizards familiar can share all the effects of a spell that has a personal range, but only as if cast at the familiar's caster level.

When I get home, I'll re-read the feat, and the descriptions of soulmelds themselves.
Bonzai
04-15-06, 05:02 PM I went and re-read the feat. All it says is that "Soul Melds that you shaped and are currently affecting you, also affect..."

Again, I would say that however the soulmeld is effecting you, bound to a chakra, invested with essentia, or not, it effects your familiar/animal companion the same.

Just like a Wizard can apply meta magic, and increase the caster level of a spell, it's the end effect that is shared with the familiar.

To everyone else, I agree that this may strech the build too thin. So I am thinking of another possible build using the share soulmeld feat. I'll post it in a new thread soon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bonzai 04-06-06, 03:48 PM	I was posting on the jack of all trades thread, when an idea struck me. Totemist 2/Druid 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 2. Why the two level dip into Totemist? Because at level 2 you get the ability to bind to your Totem Chakra. So I get 3 melds, one bind, and I believe 2 essentia. Thats a nice selection of melds and binds in it's self. However, what makes it better is the Share soulmeld feat. With it, your familiar/animal companion also benefits from your soul melds. So your Owl familiar/companion can throw manticore spikes from the air, Or your Dire Bear can have an extra set of arms and claw attacks. If you have a decent offensive soulmeld shaped, you can save spell slots for utility. With the apprentice feats, you will only be one caster level behind a pure wizard or druid. You won't gain lvl 9 spells till the epic levels. So the questions are: A) Do you think this is viable? B) what feats should I use? C) what melds do you think would work best use for combat in general? Feat wise, I am going to get Share Soulmeld, probably at lvl 3, and bonus essentia some time latter. Other than that, I am all open to suggestions!
Bonzai 04-07-06, 05:30 PM	anyone?
Bonzai 04-14-06, 02:50 PM	bump
Ashlan 04-14-06, 02:55 PM	I think the biggest issue with this build is that you are spreading yourself too thin. You lose 9th level spells for both arcane and divine. Your animal companion/familiar might be better with the 9th level buffs. Ash
Jozell 04-14-06, 05:13 PM	But I believe he is saying when he hits epic he will get those spells which is correct and if he plans on taking the character epic well then I see no problem with it as long as he keeps his CL up.
Ashlan 04-14-06, 06:22 PM	But I believe he is saying when he hits epic he will get those spells which is correct and if he plans on taking the character epic well then I see no problem with it as long as he keeps his CL up. Ok, so you can get the 9th levels spells in epic. How does an 8th level character who can't cast anything above a 2nd level spell and has a BAB of 4 sound?
Tempest Stormwind 04-14-06, 06:36 PM	Share Soulmeld doesn't let your familiar or animal companion benefit from your chakra binds, just your soulmelds. Thought I should mention that.
BreakfastNinja 04-14-06, 06:56 PM	If you get an accelerated casting class, you might fit 9th level spells. Suel Arcanamach gets you 2nd level arcane in 2 levels, but... sigh still won't net you 9th levels, with just Druid/AH/MT. I think Ashlan's got it down, that the build will be too thin, all through earlier levels.. it catches up almost at the end, but that still doesn't get you the best part of druid or wizard till EPIC. For buffing an animal companion, eh, there's... thinks Beastmaster, the halfling supermount builds, and others... but for this... maybe an Apostle of Peace. :rolleyes: if Soulmelds aren't equipment, they just take up slots, then, a VoP Totemist... thinks 2 Totemist, 3 Druid 3 Wizard 2 Apostle of Peace 10 Arcane Hierophant would get you 9th level spells at the end. ... good luck, BN
Bonzai 04-15-06, 11:43 AM	Share Soulmeld doesn't let your familiar or animal companion benefit from your chakra binds, just your soulmelds. Thought I should mention that. It doesn't? I thought it shared the benefits of the melds, including those from being bound, and with essentia being invested. I.E. it gains all the effects that you do. If it doesn't work that way, then the feat is a lot less potent. Many melds are faily worthless without essentia invested in to them, or the proper bind. So if this is true, then I'd better re-think this build. Have you seen any rulings on this?
Tempest Stormwind 04-15-06, 01:01 PM	It doesn't? I thought it shared the benefits of the melds, including those from being bound, and with essentia being invested. I.E. it gains all the effects that you do. If it doesn't work that way, then the feat is a lot less potent. Many melds are faily worthless without essentia invested in to them, or the proper bind. So if this is true, then I'd better re-think this build. Have you seen any rulings on this? The wording on share soulmeld says "Soulmeld" quite clearly. The benefit from chakra binds is separate. If you want to view it another way, fine you share the full benefit of the meld, including it's ability to be bound to a chakra (treating the familiar/companion as if it had shaped the meld) but unless it has some way of binding to a chakra, it can't gain benefits from the chakra bind. Note that this is impossible in all of the above, though a psicrystal might be able to do it (since they actually gain HD, and thus, feats).
Bonzai 04-15-06, 03:51 PM	Hmm... I'm going to re-read the that section again. I was under the impression that the abilites granted were a function of the soul meld it's self, wether it was bound, unbound, or had essentia invested into it. Soulmelds give different effects depending on what is done to them. So if a Soul Caster with a familar and the share soulmeld feat binds a meld to his chakra, and invest essentia into it it gives an effect, and that effect is shared with his familiar, as that is the effect of that particular soul meld. I can see your point from a rules lawyer stand point, but like so many other things in this game it is unlear. It doesn't say that the bonuses from invested essentia and binds don't carry over either. To me, it would be like saying that yes, a wizards familiar can share all the effects of a spell that has a personal range, but only as if cast at the familiar's caster level. When I get home, I'll re-read the feat, and the descriptions of soulmelds themselves.
Bonzai 04-15-06, 05:02 PM	I went and re-read the feat. All it says is that "Soul Melds that you shaped and are currently affecting you, also affect..." Again, I would say that however the soulmeld is effecting you, bound to a chakra, invested with essentia, or not, it effects your familiar/animal companion the same. Just like a Wizard can apply meta magic, and increase the caster level of a spell, it's the end effect that is shared with the familiar. To everyone else, I agree that this may strech the build too thin. So I am thinking of another possible build using the share soulmeld feat. I'll post it in a new thread soon.