Arcane Hierophant builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Hierophant builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Warlock33
01-07-06, 11:57 PM Is there a definitive thread for Arcane Hierophants? I personally think this class is awesome. Here is my build, I'm sure it can be made better:

Druid3/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant10/Mystic Theurge4

Human

Feats:
H: Spell focus (conj)
1: Augment summoning
3: Ashbound
6: Natural Bond
9: Natural Spell
12: Practiced spellcaster (druid)
15: ??? (draconic wildshape?)
18: ???

This gives caster level 17 wizard, and 17(20) Druid.

This lets you cast 9th level wizard spells, 9th level druid spells, gives you forms for wildshape as 20hd (24hd with that item from MoF?), gives you an animal companion as a 16th level druid (dire tiger)

BaB is 3.5 (wiz) 9.75 (Druid + arc hier) = 13.25 (fractional bab)

Summons gain +3 on attack and damage, plus +4 str/con

We use the spellpool from unearthed arcana, so basically I just have two separate spell pools. Blast-o-Mania. Fireball-Flamestrike-Fireball-Flamestrike while in some crazy wildshape form, or while shapechanged.

Maybe throwing in a sacred exorcist level to get turn undead (and divine metamagic) for extra silly? I would lose out on 9th level spells from one of the classes, but divine meta might be worth it...

Edit: OR MAYBE...I could get my dm to let me substitute psionics for arcane, psionic hierophant. Wouldn't be THAT bad of a stretch. With this, I could have schism going, and be firing flamestrikes and quillblasts while I maul things in my various wildshape forms? I think I could slip it past, what would all of you guys do with that?
Warlock33
01-08-06, 12:25 AM And another thing.

Where in the RAW does it say that after you took your ten levels of arcane hierophant you couldn't just take another prc that says "+1 to existing spellcasting class" and continue to advance both druid and wizard casting via continuing to add levels to your existing spellcasting class (arcane hierophant), which advances both. Confusing. By RaI it makes total sense but where is it stated in the RAW?

::Clarification::
[[druid/wizard/ arc hierophant (+1/+1)/ Random PrC which adds to existing class. Continue with your arcane hierophant class, therefore adding druid/wizard at the same time.]]

I'm sure this isn't legal, I'm just curious as to where it actually says it.
neilthrun
01-08-06, 12:38 AM And another thing.

Where in the RAW does it say that after you took your ten levels of arcane hierophant you couldn't just take another prc that says "+1 to existing spellcasting class" and continue to advance both druid and wizard casting via continuing to add levels to your existing spellcasting class (arcane hierophant), which advances both. Confusing. By RaI it makes total sense but where is it stated in the RAW?

::Clarification::
[[druid/wizard/ arc hierophant (+1/+1)/ Random PrC which adds to existing class. Continue with your arcane hierophant class, therefore adding druid/wizard at the same time.]]

I'm sure this isn't legal, I'm just curious as to where it actually says it.

Its a good question, and I see one reason it wouldn't work, and a few situations it might. Many PRCs state they advance you one level in the arcane spellcasting class you took levels in previously. You could argue that these classes could not advance Mystic Theurge classes because they are Arcane/Divine classes. On the other hand, some PRCS are not specific to arcane or divine, like the Alienist. Perhaps those could.

But I'm sure there is a ruling on it somewhere, someone would have abused it by now otherwise.

As far as abusing Arcane Hierophant goes, you can focus on the companion familiar ability instead. Flavor wise, this is kind of messed up. It might be breaking your druid code.

Human Wizard3/Druid3/BeastMaster1/ArcaneHierophant1

1-Druid1-Feral Companion, Spellfocus(Conjuration)
2-Wizard1
3-Wizard2-Natural Bond
4-Druid2-
5-Druid3-
6-Wizard3-Skill Focus(Handle Animal)
7-BeastMaster1
8-Arcane Hierophant1
9-ArcaneHierophant2-Graft Flesh
10-Fleshwarper1
12-Fleshwarper2
13-Fleshwarper3-AugmentSummonning
14-Fleshwarper4
15-Alienist1-Natural Bond
16-Alienist2
17-Alienist3
18-Alienist4-Natural Bond
19-Alienist5
20-Fleshwarper5

Your companion familiar ends up with the stats of a 20th level druid companion, a 15th level familiar, Amorphous form, a size increase, and plethora of grafts, and a bite attack that delievers red ache, and an aditional +2 con and strength.

Your casting on the other hand is only Wizard 15/Druid5.
Warlock33
01-08-06, 02:25 AM I really don't know anything about grafts, and don't really want to deal with them, thanks anyway.

What is feral companion? And what is it from?

I would also like to keep this a spellcaster heavy build as well. IE, 9th level spells in at least one class.
X-Codes
01-08-06, 02:28 AM One consideration is that you can't select AH because it's not a spellcasting class. It is a special ability of the class to advance the spellcasting of two *other* spellcasting classes. If you don't have either a divine or arcane spellcasting class then you forefit that ability permanently.
neilthrun
01-08-06, 12:53 PM I really don't know anything about grafts, and don't really want to deal with them, thanks anyway.

What is feral companion? And what is it from?

I would also like to keep this a spellcaster heavy build as well. IE, 9th level spells in at least one class.

Good call, spellcasting will probably trump a crazy companion familiar anyday. Feral Companion is from Champions of Ruin
psly4mne
01-09-06, 08:06 PM For a significant improvement, you can make your race Illumian and take the Improved Sigil (krau) feat. Then you can drop 2 levels of wizard for Mystic Theurge. This gives you 17 (18) wizard and 19 (20) druid without practiced spellcaster.

I can't find "spellpool" in my UA. Are you referring to Spell Points?

On the "psionic heirophant" thing: It's really your call. If you want to go with it, check that Companion Familiar and the "spellpool" variant still apply. If by "spellpool" you mean Spell Points, go with Wizard instead - no contest.
Warlock33
01-09-06, 10:00 PM Spellpool=spell points, my bad.

What does the illumian sigil do to help me?
Seeker of Undeath
01-09-06, 10:22 PM The Illumian sigil trick lets you meet the spellcasting requirement for mystic theurge as a Wizard1/Druid3. So you could do a Wizard1/Druid3/MysticTheurge4/ArcaneHeirophant10/MysticTheurge2.

Note: AH requires BAB +4 in order to qualify.
Warlock33
01-10-06, 12:55 AM Is it ACTUALLY legal to qualify for a prestige class by just heightening a spell like that? It's not actually a 2nd level spell with improved krau, it's just effectively treated as one for dc's. Is that sufficient?

Since we use fractional BAB, actually my build would look like:

Druid4/Wiz1/Theurge1/Arcane Hierophant10/Beastmaster1/Theurge1/Druid1/Dragonslayer1

17th level druid casting, with a 20th level companion with natural bond
11th level familiar benefits to companion
13th level arcane casting
Immune to fear
17th level wildshape or 20 with practiced spellcaster

Had to throw in the druid and dragonslayer levels at the end due to the odd way my dm handles multiclassing; an illumain could ignore it's highest ONE prestige class and it's highest one class. SO I ignore druid and arcane hierophant, and all the others are within one. So no xp penalty.

Feats Needed: Iron will and dodge, recommended natural bond, practiced spellcasterx2, spell focus conjuration, augment summoning.
NateNate
01-10-06, 01:24 AM Heighten increases a spell's level for all game effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#heightenSpell). PrCs require you to cast a certain level of spells, not have access to spell/day of a certain level.

That multiclassing rule counting PrC levels is really bad, especially for this type of character. Maybe try going Druid 8/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Arcane Heirophant 10 instead. It'd need to be an Elf to gain the necessary number of weapon proficiencies to qualify for SA, which leaves the possibility of dropping one AH level for Seeker of the Misty Isle.
Seeker of Undeath
01-10-06, 01:34 AM Is it ACTUALLY legal to qualify for a prestige class by just heightening a spell like that? It's not actually a 2nd level spell with improved krau, it's just effectively treated as one for dc's. Is that sufficient?If you're asking how I would rule on that as a DM, then the answer is "no". If you're asking whether it's widely accepted around here, then the answer is "yes".

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Warlock33 01-07-06, 11:57 PM	Is there a definitive thread for Arcane Hierophants? I personally think this class is awesome. Here is my build, I'm sure it can be made better: Druid3/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant10/Mystic Theurge4 Human Feats: H: Spell focus (conj) 1: Augment summoning 3: Ashbound 6: Natural Bond 9: Natural Spell 12: Practiced spellcaster (druid) 15: ??? (draconic wildshape?) 18: ??? This gives caster level 17 wizard, and 17(20) Druid. This lets you cast 9th level wizard spells, 9th level druid spells, gives you forms for wildshape as 20hd (24hd with that item from MoF?), gives you an animal companion as a 16th level druid (dire tiger) BaB is 3.5 (wiz) 9.75 (Druid + arc hier) = 13.25 (fractional bab) Summons gain +3 on attack and damage, plus +4 str/con We use the spellpool from unearthed arcana, so basically I just have two separate spell pools. Blast-o-Mania. Fireball-Flamestrike-Fireball-Flamestrike while in some crazy wildshape form, or while shapechanged. Maybe throwing in a sacred exorcist level to get turn undead (and divine metamagic) for extra silly? I would lose out on 9th level spells from one of the classes, but divine meta might be worth it... Edit: OR MAYBE...I could get my dm to let me substitute psionics for arcane, psionic hierophant. Wouldn't be THAT bad of a stretch. With this, I could have schism going, and be firing flamestrikes and quillblasts while I maul things in my various wildshape forms? I think I could slip it past, what would all of you guys do with that?
Warlock33 01-08-06, 12:25 AM	And another thing. Where in the RAW does it say that after you took your ten levels of arcane hierophant you couldn't just take another prc that says "+1 to existing spellcasting class" and continue to advance both druid and wizard casting via continuing to add levels to your existing spellcasting class (arcane hierophant), which advances both. Confusing. By RaI it makes total sense but where is it stated in the RAW? ::Clarification:: [[druid/wizard/ arc hierophant (+1/+1)/ Random PrC which adds to existing class. Continue with your arcane hierophant class, therefore adding druid/wizard at the same time.]] I'm sure this isn't legal, I'm just curious as to where it actually says it.
neilthrun 01-08-06, 12:38 AM	And another thing. Where in the RAW does it say that after you took your ten levels of arcane hierophant you couldn't just take another prc that says "+1 to existing spellcasting class" and continue to advance both druid and wizard casting via continuing to add levels to your existing spellcasting class (arcane hierophant), which advances both. Confusing. By RaI it makes total sense but where is it stated in the RAW? ::Clarification:: [[druid/wizard/ arc hierophant (+1/+1)/ Random PrC which adds to existing class. Continue with your arcane hierophant class, therefore adding druid/wizard at the same time.]] I'm sure this isn't legal, I'm just curious as to where it actually says it. Its a good question, and I see one reason it wouldn't work, and a few situations it might. Many PRCs state they advance you one level in the arcane spellcasting class you took levels in previously. You could argue that these classes could not advance Mystic Theurge classes because they are Arcane/Divine classes. On the other hand, some PRCS are not specific to arcane or divine, like the Alienist. Perhaps those could. But I'm sure there is a ruling on it somewhere, someone would have abused it by now otherwise. As far as abusing Arcane Hierophant goes, you can focus on the companion familiar ability instead. Flavor wise, this is kind of messed up. It might be breaking your druid code. Human Wizard3/Druid3/BeastMaster1/ArcaneHierophant1 1-Druid1-Feral Companion, Spellfocus(Conjuration) 2-Wizard1 3-Wizard2-Natural Bond 4-Druid2- 5-Druid3- 6-Wizard3-Skill Focus(Handle Animal) 7-BeastMaster1 8-Arcane Hierophant1 9-ArcaneHierophant2-Graft Flesh 10-Fleshwarper1 12-Fleshwarper2 13-Fleshwarper3-AugmentSummonning 14-Fleshwarper4 15-Alienist1-Natural Bond 16-Alienist2 17-Alienist3 18-Alienist4-Natural Bond 19-Alienist5 20-Fleshwarper5 Your companion familiar ends up with the stats of a 20th level druid companion, a 15th level familiar, Amorphous form, a size increase, and plethora of grafts, and a bite attack that delievers red ache, and an aditional +2 con and strength. Your casting on the other hand is only Wizard 15/Druid5.
Warlock33 01-08-06, 02:25 AM	I really don't know anything about grafts, and don't really want to deal with them, thanks anyway. What is feral companion? And what is it from? I would also like to keep this a spellcaster heavy build as well. IE, 9th level spells in at least one class.
X-Codes 01-08-06, 02:28 AM	One consideration is that you can't select AH because it's not a spellcasting class. It is a special ability of the class to advance the spellcasting of two other spellcasting classes. If you don't have either a divine or arcane spellcasting class then you forefit that ability permanently.
neilthrun 01-08-06, 12:53 PM	I really don't know anything about grafts, and don't really want to deal with them, thanks anyway. What is feral companion? And what is it from? I would also like to keep this a spellcaster heavy build as well. IE, 9th level spells in at least one class. Good call, spellcasting will probably trump a crazy companion familiar anyday. Feral Companion is from Champions of Ruin
psly4mne 01-09-06, 08:06 PM	For a significant improvement, you can make your race Illumian and take the Improved Sigil (krau) feat. Then you can drop 2 levels of wizard for Mystic Theurge. This gives you 17 (18) wizard and 19 (20) druid without practiced spellcaster. I can't find "spellpool" in my UA. Are you referring to Spell Points? On the "psionic heirophant" thing: It's really your call. If you want to go with it, check that Companion Familiar and the "spellpool" variant still apply. If by "spellpool" you mean Spell Points, go with Wizard instead - no contest.
Warlock33 01-09-06, 10:00 PM	Spellpool=spell points, my bad. What does the illumian sigil do to help me?
Seeker of Undeath 01-09-06, 10:22 PM	The Illumian sigil trick lets you meet the spellcasting requirement for mystic theurge as a Wizard1/Druid3. So you could do a Wizard1/Druid3/MysticTheurge4/ArcaneHeirophant10/MysticTheurge2. Note: AH requires BAB +4 in order to qualify.
Warlock33 01-10-06, 12:55 AM	Is it ACTUALLY legal to qualify for a prestige class by just heightening a spell like that? It's not actually a 2nd level spell with improved krau, it's just effectively treated as one for dc's. Is that sufficient? Since we use fractional BAB, actually my build would look like: Druid4/Wiz1/Theurge1/Arcane Hierophant10/Beastmaster1/Theurge1/Druid1/Dragonslayer1 17th level druid casting, with a 20th level companion with natural bond 11th level familiar benefits to companion 13th level arcane casting Immune to fear 17th level wildshape or 20 with practiced spellcaster Had to throw in the druid and dragonslayer levels at the end due to the odd way my dm handles multiclassing; an illumain could ignore it's highest ONE prestige class and it's highest one class. SO I ignore druid and arcane hierophant, and all the others are within one. So no xp penalty. Feats Needed: Iron will and dodge, recommended natural bond, practiced spellcasterx2, spell focus conjuration, augment summoning.
NateNate 01-10-06, 01:24 AM	Heighten increases a spell's level for all game effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#heightenSpell). PrCs require you to cast a certain level of spells, not have access to spell/day of a certain level. That multiclassing rule counting PrC levels is really bad, especially for this type of character. Maybe try going Druid 8/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Arcane Heirophant 10 instead. It'd need to be an Elf to gain the necessary number of weapon proficiencies to qualify for SA, which leaves the possibility of dropping one AH level for Seeker of the Misty Isle.
Seeker of Undeath 01-10-06, 01:34 AM	Is it ACTUALLY legal to qualify for a prestige class by just heightening a spell like that? It's not actually a 2nd level spell with improved krau, it's just effectively treated as one for dc's. Is that sufficient?If you're asking how I would rule on that as a DM, then the answer is "no". If you're asking whether it's widely accepted around here, then the answer is "yes".