Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lilt 10-21-05, 10:51 AM	A friend of mine is starting a new game soon and has invited me to join. The game is going to start somewhere between levels 6 and 11 (more on this later) and is going to be set in his own detailed world that started in AD&D times (seemingly lots of history). Quirks of this campaign: We're starting at the lowest level for our builds to get going, and if one person's build has a higher start point than another then we start at the highest one (within reason). Magic items are somewhat rare and not commonly traded in this world, so we're generally going to get what we get as loot/rewards rather than lots of cash and a big magic supermarket. I get the impression we can expect what items we have to be generally worth more than the character wealth by level guidelines, however. We can also expect to be travelling with characters more powerful than us, the GM mentioned that there'd be a level 16 cleric travelling with us for some of the time. He's going to try to keep teleportation as something that we'll be going to an NPC for (his original plan was to have no scrolls available), but I've explained the difficulty in doing this under 3.X to him (wizards research 2-3 spells every level ETC, sorcerers and travel clerics have no need for scrolls of it) so I'm not sure if it's going to be enforced. The GM has said that if the game runs for that long then he has no problem taking it into epic levels, meaning I'm possibly more bothered about an epic-ready build than a build which achieves a particular accolade at level 20. Rules-wise: I'm not sure about the stat generation system yet, but I asked if we could use the fractional attack bonus rules and I was told that was OK. Character-wise I was contemplating going Arcane Hierophant with a build something like: Grey Elf Druid 4/Wizard 2/Mindbender 1/Acane Hierophant 10/MT 3 Starting as Druid 4/Wizard 2/Mindbender 1/Acane Hierophant 1 Note that thanks to Fractional BAB I don't have to take the second level of wizard to get the +4BAB, it can be done with any 1/2 BAB + Arcane Casting class. If I was to go dwarf then I'd be tempted to take Runesmith as that level, but I can't think of any good ones for elves right now. I do know that the slightly more standard Druid 3/Wizard 2/MB1/MT1/AH 1 (normally with 1 more level of MT which has been skipped thanks to fractional BAB) would allow me more spellcasting at the end of the day, with 9/9 spellcasting at level 20, but Druid 4/Wiz 2/MB 1/AH 1 gives me wildshape off the bat (possibly important, as I don't know what physical stats I'll have). If we end-up starting at 9th level because of some other player's minimum 'get going' level, or I end-up with OK stats all-round, then I'll probably go the Druid 3/Wizard 2/MB1/MT1/AH 1 route. Feats-wise I'm thinking about going: 1 Extend Spell 3 Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) 6 Mindsight (LoM) 9 Natural Spell 12 Arcane Strike 15 Practiced Spellcaster (Druid) 18 ? I'm sorely tempted to take Craft Wonderous Item with my 3rd level feat (moving Practiced Spellcaster to 1st), but note that as we won't be getting piles of cash I doubt I'd be able to fund my crafting. I'm also tempted to take Practiced Spellcaster (Druid) at 1st level. I could take Spontaneous Healer, buying the ranks in Knowledge (Religion) with my wizard skill points, but as there's going to be a level 16 cleric with us for some of the time I'm not sure I'll bother. Comments? Suggestions?
Inkling 10-21-05, 11:08 AM	I'm thinking that if you DO get gold, but can never really buy magic items, then CWI would be a critical feat for you and your entire party. If you had a Psion in your party (or could hire one) that had Psychic Reformation, you could skip the Craft Wondrous Item feat until you get some money (then you could temporarily swap out one of your other feats while you're crafting). That way if you never get any gold, you won't be wasting a feat.
Namarus 10-21-05, 11:17 AM	Tbh honest, playing an AH myself I would definately recommend not taking elf. I play an elf myself and the real problem is feats and skills. I would suggest something like this. Druid 4/Divinist 1/Divine Oracle 2/AH+/MT+ This will give you Evasion on your medium armour. Plus it forfills your skill requirements to get into MT for spell casting progression. It also gives you better hitpoints. I would suggest the following feats that I have found useful. Track (1st Level) - PHB Able Learner (1st Level) - RD Natural Bond (3rd Level) - CAdv Scribe Scroll (4th Level) - PHB Practised Caster - Wizard (6th Level) - CA Natural Spell (9th Level) - PHB
Todd 10-21-05, 11:29 AM	Grey Elf with the +2 int is a solid choice IMO and if using racial sub levels then it gets even better. Track isn't nessisary in the build Namarus since it can be picked up via wildshape if needed. Mindbender is there to allow telepathic communication while in wild shape form ... and the mindsight is a huge fun bump to that. Lilt, what's your attachment to Arcane Strike? I realize that it opens up melee in Wildshape form a bit ... but that's a pretty high cost for something that your guy should already be pretty good at via buff spells and the like.
PonTelon 10-21-05, 11:33 AM	Don't know if it'll fit in your DM's world, but Wu Jen are much more fun to combo with Druid than Wizard, in my opinion. Also, if you have access to Dragon Magazine, 325 has some fun feats: Druidic Theurgy - Spells on both lists are = total caster levels. Diversified Casting - 3 prohibited spells(RAW you get 3 spells for free...) Theurgic Bond - Choose Animal companion or Familiar. Act as if they are all together. Example: Take this feat twice and aWiz 3/Druid 5/Heirophant 1 would have a partner with the benefits of an Animal Companion level 9 and familiar level 9 instead of the normal 6/4. Take it once and it'd be either 9/4 or 6/9. Theurgic Specialist - All conjuration spells are cast as a total of your spellcasting classes. So it'd be your current level, instead of the few ones behind. Only CL, however. So Practiced Spellcaster might do the same.
Lilt 10-21-05, 04:54 PM	@Inkling: The whole reason that the GM is restricting magic item trade is that he doesn't want adventurers carting around enough valuables to corner the market of a small country. IE: He's doing it so that there isn't as much gold around in the first place rather than just to control what magic items people have. @Namarus: Are you playing a PHB elf or a Grey Elf from the Monster Manual? Are you using the Elven Wizard racial sub? The +2 int makes it as good as any other +0LA race as far as skill points go, am I wrong? I'm not particularly bothered about track, as there are many ways for me to get around such problems. I can give my animal companion track and have it use my ranks in survival (or its own ranks) allong with scent (if it has it, which many companions do) which should make up for its lower wisdom. Todd is correct in that Mindbender is there for 100ft Telepathy (the ability to communicate in wildshaped form) and 100ft Mindsight (Mindsight, a feat from Lords of Madness, grants blindsense to the range of your telepathy and tells you the Int scores of creatures detected). @Todd: Arcane Strike is purely for melee options. As it applies to all natural weapons, you can get some quite hideous (and practically guaranteeable) damage out of an Arcane-Wraith-strike Pounce in Tiger form or similar. I am open to other suggestions, although sadly I don't have access to dragon magazines (ruling out PonTelon's suggestions). Natural Bond is an interesting idea, and I suppose that as I have a bit of playing time before I choose my 12th level feat so I have time to think about it. Any other suggestions? I'm tempted to ask if Rashemi Elemental summoning fits into the game world.
Namarus 10-21-05, 10:50 PM	Track isn't nessisary in the build Namarus since it can be picked up via wildshape if needed. Actually since you don't get wildshape as a AH with most builds until around level 8, I think it's fair to actually include it in a build. Yes I am using the MM Gray Elf. I really like it, but I am seriously suffering from lack of feats, and weak constitution. Btw as an alternately another build would be: Druid 4/ Wizard 2/ Ruathar 1/ AH + This would give you better saves, more hit points, and a free magic item. Of course you would have to be an elf friend.
Lilt 10-26-05, 10:06 PM	Well yet more discussions with the GM have revealed the following: Characters are going to be made using 36 point buy My animal companion will probably be initially some form of white arctic wolf (not particularly large but useable as a mount for an elf) and later-on I'll probably have a modified giant eagle (made into an animal with some reductions and added to the Druid Level-3 table). I'm also tempted by Giant Owl. He seems to like the idea of me riding my animal companion, and says I won't need a saddle and he'll give me bonuses for doing so, so I may as well run with it. Rackshasa may feature as common opponents, as the druids are presently combatting them in the desert 3.0 crit stacking rules apply (for what it's worth, I doubt I'll use them in this build as specialising in a particular weapon isn't going to be my forte) I mentioned tracking and survival to the GM and he said the campaign wouldn't include much of it, although I do plan to have it once skill points aren't quite as tight (an accepted drawback of the Druid/Wiz/MB/MT/AH build) and give my animal companion the track feat. If you have a BAB of 10 or more then a 1 isn't an automatic miss. Taking 10 or 20 won't nessecarily work, but if characters have sufficient ranks in a skill (I think it was something like 13) then they can never critically fail. This is the ruling that I am most dubious about due to the rules for learning spells using spellcraft checks. As a player and DM I love the rules for taking 10 as knowing that the characters can reliably do things makes life so much simpler (I threw some characters on an 10-day-long treck through the jungle knowing that the druid could find enough food to feed them, for example). The DM is quite determined to change things to how he thinks they should work, so I'm sure there will be more of these rulings to come. My current planned stat line is: Str 4pts 12-2=10 Dex 4pts 12+2=14 Con 6pts 14-2=12 Int 10 pts 16+2=18 (+2 from level = 20) Wis 10 pts 16+0=16 Cha 2pts 10+0=10 I'm trying to resist the urge to dump charisma, as I'll have a number of charisma-linked skills (Bluff, Intimidate, Handle Animal) and the only other place it can really go is into physical stats which will soon become combat-redundant. I may yet dump strength to 8 if I'm sure I can manage the penalty. I decided to put the points gained at 4th and 8th into int as, if I'm going to up both int and wis, I should obviously up Int first. Skill points distributed as follows: Bluff 5 Concentration 8 Diplomacy 4 (+4 synergy) Intimidate 4 Knowledge (Rel) 6 Knowledge (Arc) 8 Knowledge (Nat) 8 Sense Motive 5 Spellcraft 9 (+2 synergy) Survival 3 (+2 synergy in above-ground natural environments) Handle Animal 5 (+4 with animal companion) Ride 3 (+2 synergy, seemingly applying the +4 animal companion bonus too and no need for saddles)
Namarus 10-26-05, 11:02 PM	Well if your going to be riding your companion into combat that actually helps you a lot, since companions share spells, even your wizard spells can be shared. Remember to place the mounted combat feat on your feat list, and boost your ride skill right up. This will enable you to negate one hit per round that is landed on your companion while riding it. Provided you make the skill check. You might also want to ensure that your concentration skill is maxed out, along with relevant spellcasting feats for mounted spellcasting. One thing to remember is barding for your companion to insure it survives in combat. One idea if you are taking a mounted combat type of druid is using a Riding Dog. They are absolutely assume pets for small druids like halflings, plus you would have a better attack bonus with missile like spells due to small size.
Lilt 10-27-05, 08:47 AM	Yes, and note that as the companion is also my familiar due to AH, it also gets good intelligence and NA increases, improved evasion off the bat, and can deliver touch spells. Mounted combat is very tempting, but my feat list is already fairly cramped so I'm not sure where to put it. Having never played a mounted character, I'm not really sure of the importance of this feat. Surely a good animal companionwill be able to survive without my assistance? Which would be better considering that I won't be mounted 24/7 (it somewhat cramps my style as far as wildshape goes), Mounted Combat or Natural Bond? I'll be getting some barding for him, but probably not much more than leather or masterwork studded leather as it'd not be proficient yet. If it's hard to get hold of for a giant eagle, then I may just mage armor him. Is there any way to train an animal to be proficient in armor without using feat slots? Mounted spellcasting only requires concentration when my mount takes a doubble move or more. As my mount will have a 70-80ft flight speed (with good maneuverability thanks to the improved flight feat), I'm probably not going to need to do that particularly often. I'm looking forwards to using the areal bombardment/divebombing rules from Heroes of Battle combined with Share Spells and True Strike. -4 nonproficiency penalty on that 21d6 attack? +20 should compensate. I'm going to be putting more ranks into concentration (3 or so) with my next AH level, which should give me enough to cast 3rd level spells (the highest I can cast) when my mount takes a doubble move except on a roll of a 1 (the GM is playing that natural 1s are always a failure, or something like that) The GM is providing me a riding dog type companion/mount for my elf character, which should do until I can reach the mountains where I need to get my giant owl/eagle from.
Lilt 10-28-05, 07:08 AM	Update: One of the other characters has a build which 'gets going' at 9th level so my build is probably going to start at AH 2. His build is a Scout-Dervish going scimitar-crit-monkey and taking advantage of keen/improved crit stackage. This means we're probably starting at 9th level so I get wildshape (and natural spell), allong with a few more skill points to round-out my skills. The thing I'm most unsure about with my character are the feats. I know I don't need track because I can either A) get my companion familiar to do it or B) the Scout to do it, and the DM says there won't be much tracking, so I'm safe without that one. Natural Bond versus Mounted Combat. Which is best for a mounted companion familiar? Is extend Spell loseable? Note that I doubt I'll be getting ahold of rods of extend spell. Is Natural Spell moveable to a later level? Say, 12th so that I may take another feat sooner? Arcane Strike is probably gone, so I'll need a 12th level feat (I'm thinking Natural Bond or Mounted Combat) Mindsight and, because I need it to get Mindsight, Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) are the only definite feats. The game starts today, so quick oppinions would be appreciated.
Namarus 10-28-05, 09:38 AM	I would drop the track and extend spell then, since you are starting at a higher level. Track is only useful when you start the character from level 1 and play from then on. I would take Natural bond at an early level if you can, this will insure that you do not lose any pet progression. I never did think arcane strike was a useful feat for an AH so dump it. Mounted combat, well I would probably say ignore it for the moment, until later levels. At that point you can see if your pet is taking enough damage to warrant needing it. Typically if you have some buffs on your familiar companion it should be fine. The familiar hour/level buff spells from complete arcane are very nice to keep up on your pet, along with say mage armour on you and your pet. I would probably consider casting a shared vigour spell just before fights so you both get fast healing. Have you given serious thought to magical items?
Lilt 10-29-05, 09:00 AM	The game has started, revealing some more different things about this game: Increases in intelligence, even from items, give skill points retroactively. Thus me getting int 20 at level 8 and a +2 int item gave me plenty of skill points. We were largely selecting items from a limited list as far as starting items were concerned, but these items were extremely powerful. We each got 6 items of our choice from the list, and the items ranged in price from 4k (+2 stat items) to 32k or more (+4 weapons with special abilities). I would've just loaded-up on the most expencive weapons to sell them, except that we're not really going to be able to do much magic item trading. Most of the items were big + armors and weapons, so I requested something that'd be more useful for a caster. I wrote a wish list including things like strands of prayer beads, rods of metamagic, wilding clasps, druid's vestiments, wildshape amulets (suggesting less powerful ones that do +1 or +2 druid level), and Pearls of Power. From what I was offered I took a rod of metamagic (extend), a wilding clasp, druid's vestiments, and a 3rd level pearl of power. I also took some +3 Shadow Silent Moves armor which gave +2 to dex from the standard pile. We also got a random medium item at the start of the game. I got a major circlet of blasting but traded it with the scout for his lvl 5 pearl of power.The Half-Ogre got a ring of freedom of movement. As we're not being given free reign of the magic items we get, with a limited number of more powerful items, that did not work well with the fact that the wizard ne4eds scrolls to copy into his spellbook. I was thus given a selection of spells that I had been able to copy from scrolls or other wizard's spellbooks over the years, plus my own choice of those that I'd learn naturally. My riding wolf is slightly tougher than a normal wolf, and is definately tougher than a riding dog. It sadly looks like it's going to take a while before I get my giant eagle, but I can cast alter self through share spells to turn the dog into one :) My wizard spells are as follows. Those in bold are must haves as they were either found as scrolls or have been memorised/cast already (or are needed for PrC requirements). Spells in itallics are those that I am unsure about. I'm pretty sure I want the ones in normal text but they are switchable if I find I need other spells more. 0th:All PHB Cantrips1st:Arrow Mind Burning Hands Critical Strike Enlarge Person Fist of Stone Feather Fall Grease Identify Charm Person Magic Missile Orb of Acid, Lesser Ray of Enfeeblement Scholar's Touch Shield True Strike2nd:Alter Self Fox's Cunning Glitterdust Invisibility Locate object Mirror Image Scorching Ray Wraithstrike3rd:Arcane Sight Arms of Plenty (LoM) Dispel Magic Enhance Familiar Fireball Greater Magic Weapon Haste Lightning Bolt Vampiric TouchOppinions are welcome, and note that I had no real choice about some of the selections, they were take them or leave them freebies. I probably wouldn't have chosen both Fireball, and Lightning Bolt given the choice, and Vampiric Touch was the other 3rd level freebie.
Lilt 11-02-05, 04:50 AM	:bump: Another question is what no-save no-SR spells are best for a druid fighting rackshasa? Is there any way for me to create good-alligned weapons with either of my halves? I'm thinking summoned lions would make good enough grapplers to keep them down while the party Half-Ogre hits them really hard (THF+PA) to get past their DR. I'm even considering wildshaping into a fleshraker for venomfire cheese if my DM allows it, but I'd rather not do anything that broken unless I really need to.
Lilt 11-05-05, 08:09 AM	Also looking for ideas for my first three 4th level spells after yesterdays session where it looks like we're going to level-up soon. I'm pretty sure I want Polymorph and Evard's Black Tentacles, but I'm open to suggestions for the 3rd spell, and I've bought a coupple of 'to be decided later' scrolls at town.
colm_l 11-05-05, 08:55 AM	Also looking for ideas for my first three 4th level spells after yesterdays session where it looks like we're going to level-up soon. I'm pretty sure I want Polymorph and Evard's Black Tentacles, but I'm open to suggestions for the 3rd spell, and I've bought a coupple of 'to be decided later' scrolls at town. Enervation is pretty solid but Dimension door should be your first priority after polymorph. So I'd suggest this order of purchase: Polymorph, D. door, Black tentacles, Greater invisibility, Enervation, resilient sphere
Sang-Drax 11-05-05, 08:59 AM	I once saw someone say that men don't use fractional BAB. ;)
Lilt 11-05-05, 09:30 AM	I once saw someone say that men don't use fractional BAB. ;)My character's an elf treehugger/bookworm and I just split a sausage and tomato quiche with my flatmate. (no, really) LOL. Fractional BAB Pride! :p @colm_l: Thx. I'll put D. Door is in there instead of Enervation and say my scrolls were of Greater Invis and Enervation. The other 4th level spell I'm sorely tempted by is Lesser Globe of Invulnerability for if we're ever attacked by rackshasa again. As they can only cast 3rd level spells, lesser globe would close them down quite well. The party just came into a fair bit of money too, as the GM decided to give us a randomly generated major item from a dragon's horde and we ended-up with a +3 Holy Brilliant Energy Longsword. It turns-out that there are some places in the world where we can buy and sell magic items (only major cities, of which we know of 2) where I upgraded my Druid's Vestiments to Wildshape Vestiments +2 (Adds 2 to druid level for determining wildshape abilities). Item creation is doable, and so I'm tempted to go for craft wonderous item at some point.