| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| aod31807-09-05, 09:17 PM | I don’t suppose someone has already posted an optimization thread on the Arcane Hierophant? If so, where? I liked the Arcane Hierophant (Races of the Wild) when I first saw it and I saw the thread on mixing the Mystic Theurge and Hierophant to maximize your casting progression, but felt that maximizing spell progression ultimately hampered over all progression (animal familiar, shifting, wizard familiar). By 21st level, I was thinking Wizard 5 / Druid 6 / Arcane Hierophant 10. Just looking for opinions and classes worth looking into. Thanx. |
| Fălenganor07-09-05, 09:24 PM | Spell progression is much better than those other abilities. I'd do a : wizard 3/ cleric 3/ A.H. 10/ MT 4 at level 20, but keeping this increase in both classes after level 26 might be hard. |
| catharz07-09-05, 09:52 PM | Spirit folk alt~ Bamboo spirit folk [OA] Shugenja [CD] 1/Sha'ir [Drg 315] 3/Mystic Theurge 6/Arcane heirophant [RotW] 10 1:Shu 1 |----------------|+0|0/0/2 |6 |----|1 2:Shu 1/S'r 1 |----------|+0|0/0/4 |6+1d4 ||1/1 4:Shu 1/S'r 3 |----------|+1|1/1/5 |6+3d4 ||1/3 5:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 1 |-----|+1|1/1/7 |6+4d4 ||2/4 10:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 6 |----|+4|3/3/10|6+9d4 ||7/9 11:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 6/AH 1 |+4|3/3/10|6+9d4 ||8/10 20:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 6/AH 10|+?|?/6/? |6+9d4+?|17/19 Caster levels over on the right. You don't get Wildshape until you get an item which grants it. Arcane Heirophant~ Human Wizard 1/Druid 3 1:Wiz 1 |----------------|+0|0/0/2 | 2:Wiz 1/Drd 1 |----------|+0|2/0/4 | 4:Wiz 1/Drd 3 |----------|+2|4/1/6 | 5:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 1 |-----|+2|4/1/8 | 8:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 4 |-----|+4|5/2/10| 9:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 4/AH 1 ||+4|5/2/12| 18:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 4/AH 10|+4|8/5/17| Feats~ 1(Human: Precocious apprentice, Level:). Companion Familiar: Dire lion. Uses Precocious apprentice, obviously. Gets wildshape unless your DM is being assinine, in which case you should craft an items that grants Wildshape if you can. |
| Sang-Drax07-09-05, 10:07 PM | Going Wiz 5/Dru 6 is insane! Either go Dru 3/Wiz 3/MT 2/AH 10/MT 2 or wiz1/dru3/mt 4/ah10/mt 2 if your DM accepts the precocious apprentice cheese. |
| aod31807-09-05, 11:20 PM | You have to go at least Wizard 3 / Druid 3 for MT and you need Druid for Arcane Hierophant although I would have preferred Cleric. I like to think Epic and have a hard time turning down Wild shape (elemental 1/day) at 19th level as well as all the animal companion buffers; 5 levels of druid means improved evasion. I see where more then Wizard 3 is wasteful on the companion side, but the extra feat is nice. Being able to cast through your animal companion makes Metamagics all the more tempting. Thanks for the criticism. Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes me stronger. |
| Timlagor07-09-05, 11:21 PM | Wiz3/Dru3 will let you qualify if you can get your DM to accept the (relatively reasonable) rules on using fractions for BAB and Saves. Then ask about Epic Progression. It's rather silly to stop progressing as an AH just becaus eyou ran out of levels when they all the same (I think). A nice DM would extend the class for 4 levels :D Otherwise you're be crazy to take anything but MyTh BTW don't forget to take bother Practiced Spellcaster Feats. If you want to recover your Animal Companion progression there is a Feat for it -Natrue's (I think) Bond You can also take the Obtain Familiar Feat if you're really obsessed with the critter to get full Familiar Progression on all levels. You can then cast every buff you know on your familiar (though some of them probably won't stack). If he dies well never mind; you can get another one tomorrow: you have a disposable Paladin! |
| Namarus07-09-05, 11:30 PM | Spirit folk alt~ Bamboo spirit folk [OA] Shugenja [CD] 1/Sha'ir [Drg 315] 3/Mystic Theurge 6/Arcane heirophant [RotW] 10 1:Shu 1 |----------------|+0|0/0/2 |6 |----|1 2:Shu 1/S'r 1 |----------|+0|0/0/4 |6+1d4 ||1/1 4:Shu 1/S'r 3 |----------|+1|1/1/5 |6+3d4 ||1/3 5:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 1 |-----|+1|1/1/7 |6+4d4 ||2/4 10:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 6 |----|+4|3/3/10|6+9d4 ||7/9 11:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 6/AH 1 |+4|3/3/10|6+9d4 ||8/10 20:Shu 1/S'r 3/MT 6/AH 10|+?|?/6/? |6+9d4+?|17/19 Caster levels over on the right. You don't get Wildshape until you get an item which grants it. Arcane Heirophant~ Human Wizard 1/Druid 3 1:Wiz 1 |----------------|+0|0/0/2 | 2:Wiz 1/Drd 1 |----------|+0|2/0/4 | 4:Wiz 1/Drd 3 |----------|+2|4/1/6 | 5:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 1 |-----|+2|4/1/8 | 8:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 4 |-----|+4|5/2/10| 9:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 4/AH 1 ||+4|5/2/12| 18:Wiz 1/Drd 3/MT 4/AH 10|+4|8/5/17| Feats~ 1(Human: Precocious apprentice, Level:). Companion Familiar: Dire lion. Uses Precocious apprentice, obviously. Gets wildshape unless your DM is being assinine, in which case you should craft an items that grants Wildshape if you can. Just curious, which of those class gives trackless step class feature. The spirit folk alt one that is. Never seen the 2 classes that you used. It quite interesting the see that the wording of the arcane hierophant imply that druid and ranger can meet the requirements for entry into the class, when infact only druid can. I was discussing with a Fwib two weeks back the benefits of the various AH builds. We came up with the fact that out of the non-exotic 4 builds that players would use the druid 4/ wizard 3/ AH + was the better build. In terms of overall hps, wildshape, animal companion and familiar progression, along with BAB, and saving throws, the vast majority of the times the D4 build was top or equal top. Of course we were only looking at overall progression by level 15 since I was going to use it in a Living Greyhawk campaign. The main problem with the class is the total lack of feats, so playing a human something like that would be helpful, since you will be using up at least 3 feats, Natural Bond, Practised Caster, and Natural Spell. Edit common builds are D3/W3/MT2/AH10/MT2 D4/W3/AH10/ ..... D3/W4/AH10/ ..... D3/W3/Beastmaster1/AH10/ ..... |
| catharz07-09-05, 11:38 PM | Just curious, which of those class gives trackless step class feature. The spirit folk alt one that is. Never seen the 2 classes that you used. Trackless step is from Bamboo Spirit folk. As I noted, one class is from Dragon, the other from Complete D. The Sha'ir is an elemental-flavored Cha-based class which grants both arcane and divine spells. Shugenja is an elemental-flavored Cha-based class granting divine spells. The one problem is that you need to use your familiar to get your spells. If you can't use your companion familiar, you're SOL. |
| Timlagor07-09-05, 11:44 PM | aoad: what do you mean about being able to cast through your familiar? afaik you get all the benefits of advancing teh familiar with your AH levels. Namarus: you need Practiced Spellcaster twice and I'd take them first. Then Natural Bond then Natural Spell at 6th (iirc you don't have enough wildshape until then). btw you're still not as powerful as a straight druid (well maybe at level 20..) |
| aod31807-10-05, 07:27 AM | I was referring to the 4th level Channel Animal (Sp) ability. With the Precocious Apprentice feat and one level of Wizard, I could go Wizard 1/Druid9/AH10 and at 20th, be a fully powered 19th level Druid and an 11th level Wizard. One level and one feat for 11 caster levels, not bad. At epic, round out Druid with one more level and then jump to Wizard prestige classes. I like it. |
| Vecna07-10-05, 09:05 AM | Trackless step is from Bamboo Spirit folk. Yes, but Trackless step from a race satisfies the requirement Trackless step class feature? If the source is unimportant, they could have written just Trackless step. |
| Timlagor07-10-05, 09:07 AM | I was referring to the 4th level Channel Animal (Sp) ability. The only thing I can find resembling this is the Familiar ability to deliver touch spells which you get at Wiz 3 and I think the AH would give it to you even if you took Divine Oracle for your third wizard level. Is there something else? Which book is it in? |
| Sang-Drax07-10-05, 09:14 AM | Just for the record: AH improves your Animal Companion progression, and you have to lose your familiar upon entering the class. Thus, there's absolutely NO reason to go Druid 6. |
| Timlagor07-10-05, 09:26 AM | Doesn't the animal companion get all the Familiar benefits too though? |
| catharz07-10-05, 10:37 AM | Yes, but Trackless step from a race satisfies the requirement Trackless step class feature? If the source is unimportant, they could have written just Trackless step. Yes, it says you have "Trackless step as the druid class feature." |
| truehero07-10-05, 11:11 AM | im making an arcane heirophant and I wanted to go mounted. It isnt persay optimized but I like it. wiz 3/druid 3/ beast master 1/arcane heirophant 10/ mystic thuerg 3 with natural bond and familiar bonuses his pet is rather nice, and it gets good at early levels. |
| Namarus07-10-05, 11:26 AM | Doesn't the animal companion get all the Familiar benefits too though? Not all the features. You need to read the text carefully, it gets all the animal companion benefits, and about 3/4 of the familiar benefits, it doesn't get stuff like Natural armour from the familiar or half the owner's hit points. |
| Namarus07-10-05, 11:40 AM | Namarus: you need Practiced Spellcaster twice and I'd take them first. Then Natural Bond then Natural Spell at 6th (iirc you don't have enough wildshape until then). btw you're still not as powerful as a straight druid (well maybe at level 20..) I disagree. Natural bond is what you get first, since at low levels it is your animal companion that keeps you alive most and not your spells. It also ensures that you always maintain the same sort of druid companion progression as a full druid has. The important thing to remember is that your animal companion/ familar companion is your main melee offensive strength as an Arcane Hierophant. Since the sheer multitude of buff spells that you can have on the creature is amazing. You can enlarge person your animal companion at low levels via the share spell ability, to make your wolf trip people who get even close to you. You can share armour/shield with it to improve it's AC. Why not cast transformation on your companion, and let it melee everything to death while you act as a sniper picking off anything nearby. The focus of this class is really the companion, and your weakening yourself by not keeping it as strong as possible. Since most druid spells you use are going to be buff/healing and utility spells while the wizard spells are going to be your main offensive punch (ie you need high caster levels). To me it seems a waste of one of your few precious feats to boost caster levels on both classes. On the D4/W3/AH+ build I use practised caster wizard, you can delay natural spell until level 9. I think that by level 20 an Arcane Hieorphant would beat a level 20 druid. |
| Bard of DorAr07-10-05, 11:59 AM | Side question. What book is Precocious apprentice in? I know I've read it but now I can't find it.. |
| KobaldArchmage07-10-05, 12:08 PM | Complete Arcane- but near the back |
| Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite07-10-05, 01:23 PM | Why do all of these builds list wizard levels first? I'd think druid first would be the way to go, if only for the extra four hit points you come away with. |
| Jalokin07-10-05, 01:37 PM | The Wizard first is for getting Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill. You could conceivably start out as a druid, however, you would need to burn a feat to acquire Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill. Cheers, Jalokin |
| Molot07-10-05, 01:40 PM | Was "Alternative Source Spell" printed only in Dragon Magazine, or in any book too? It allows to cast a spell as if it was a spell from your other class (wiz1/drd3 can cast all druidic spells as arcane), so it would be great for hieropterant & theurge builds - only 1 level of the "other" class, and afther that free additional abilities :D Of course Precocious apprentice works too, but sometimes it is good to cast mage's spell as divine to avoid armor problems, or cleric's spell as sorcerer's if you lost your holly symbol. PS I know my description of Alternative Source Spell is not exact... But it is copyrighted material... Just remember that it has penalities when using them :] Added There was Faerunian feat that makes all knowledge always class skills and adds +2 bonus to two of them. It's just great for build like that, Cause you can have both important knowledges better than uninterrupted characters (that don't use this feat). wiz1/drd4 would have: knowledge(arcane) 10 - as an 7'th level wizard knowledge(nature) 10 - as an 7'th level druid IMHO if it is roleplay session, this feat is worth to be taken. |
| Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite07-10-05, 01:47 PM | Eh. Just take wizard at level 2. You've got plenty of time to make up those ranks (especially since this build needs a high intelligence anyway). I'd rather have the hit points, especially for survivability at lower levels. |
| Timlagor07-10-05, 01:47 PM | The Wizard first is for getting Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill. You could conceivably start out as a druid, however, you would need to burn a feat to acquire Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill. Cheers, Jalokin Huh? You take Wizard at some point and put the points in then. |
| aod31807-10-05, 01:48 PM | Hey Galstaf, you're right. Druid is a better first choice, I'm just biased towards Wizards and hearing a bell in the background, listed them first. With the mystic theurge thrown in, at 20th level you have 9th level wizard and druid spells, true, and your companion gets +8 HD, +8 Armor, +4 STR with Wild shape (4/day). Not bad. With a Druid 7/Wizard 3/AH 10 you are 1 level away from 9th level druid with 7th level wizard spells, but your companion gets an extra 2 HD, +2 Natural armor and Improved Evasion with Wild shape (5/day), wild shape (Huge) and Wild shape (elemental 1/day). It looks like it really breaks down into whether you want the fastest possible spell progression or slower progression with an improved companion and better shifting abilities. That wild shape (Huge) is real nice when you pick out your first epic feat. Any tips on squeezing any extra juice out of Druid progression? This is my first “Druid”. And Sang-Drax, why do think trading 3 levels of wizard progression to give your companion animal improved evasion is insane? Sure, you can replace them, but the longer they stay in the fight, the better. |
| Timlagor07-10-05, 02:00 PM | Eh. Just take wizard at level 2. You've got plenty of time to make up those ranks (especially since this build needs a high intelligence anyway). I'd rather have the hit points, especially for survivability at lower levels. That's the one thing you DON'T want to do. Take 3 of one or the other first. Then at least you are more-or-less on the power curve for the first three levels. You will suck for a while after that but there's no reason to bring it on prematurely! aod: it's crazy to give up 2 levels of Wizard spells for Improved Evasion. IE will save the Familiar Companion from some damage occasionally -those Wizard spells will blast the opposition into smithereens and let you get even more poetent buffs. The Buffs alone should be worth considerably more that IE. Try very hard to persuade your DM to extend AH to 14 levels so you don't have to mess about with MT. The only reason I can see for it stopping at 10 is that all PrCs stop at 10 and that's not a very good reason. Either way, if you are playing from level 1, you will know which way you want to go by the time you get to go when you hit 16th. |
| catharz07-10-05, 02:51 PM | Was "Alternative Source Spell" printed only in Dragon Magazine, or in any book too? There is a version in an FR book. IIRC it was UE. |
| Molot07-10-05, 03:04 PM | There is a version in an FR book.Could you point me to the exact title & page? All D&D FR books have at least 5000 pages ;) So it would be nice if I would not be forced to look throught all of them... |
| Jalokin07-10-05, 04:35 PM | I guess I made a mistake then, it happens all the time. However, I would prefer to start out as a Wizard but that is because I prefer maxing out certain skills, as opposed to spreading the points around. Hope that explains where I was coming from, Jalokin |
| Molot07-10-05, 05:47 PM | Is the bamboo folk the only way to get into this PrC? There is a feat in the Races of the Wild that has exactly the same rules as a Trackless Step (I don't remember the name cause it is just the same thing). Would it work if it is not explicity said that is the same thing? By the common sence it should, by the rules imho aslo should (DMG rules about replacements in requirements), but I'm not sure. Edit: My fault. There is Lightfeet that works similar, but is weaker than trackless step. So it doesn't count by the RAW. Too bad. I just love spontaneous casters, but no way now... End of edit Aslo, some buff in BaB would be nice. I don't see any roleplaying reason for this requirement, actually. Is there a way to owercome this without going into Mystic Theurge? I just want to buff my druid with some arcane power, but I need it fast... Actually, it would be great to finish this PrC before 16'th level, what is opssible with most of PrCs... |
| Sang-Drax07-10-05, 06:24 PM | And Sang-Drax, why do think trading 3 levels of wizard progression to give your companion animal improved evasion is insane? Sure, you can replace them, but the longer they stay in the fight, the better. Because it's just not worth it. Anyway, you can take Natural Bond and Beastmaster 1 and thus add 6 to your effective companion level. I guess that's enough :) |
| truehero07-10-05, 07:34 PM | that adds 7 not 6, and your right :) its how my build works. |
| bumrush200207-10-05, 07:38 PM | I don't have my character sheet in front of me but here's a character I'm playing and plans, I'd appreciate suggestions. Human Wizard 1, Druid 3, M.T. 2 plans at level 7 M.T. then 10 levels of hierophant then back to M.T. feats, at level 1 precocious apprentice? -i think that's what it's called, and collegiate wizard? (both from p. 181 of arcane) at 3 - greenbound summoning 6 - ashbound summoning I'd appreciate feat recc. and spell selections for wizard ideas - 9 - natural bond 12 - natural spell 15 - rashedi elemental summoning - i think that's what it's called 18 - no idea - maybe craft magic arms? I plan on using my wizard spells for mainly utility and am working on saving up the money for building a shield guardian. i am open for suggestions |
| aod31807-11-05, 01:07 PM | I like the Beastmaster, must of missed them. Fighter BAB too, nice. Hey, bumrush2002. From the Druid optimization board, some of my favorites included; Oaken resilience, heavy fort is always nice Fast Wild Shape, can shift and still get a spell off Blindsight, TOO good. Has this been erratad anywhere? With all that Spellcasting, I was also toying around with the Multiheaded Creature template (Savage Spec, p. 125) with the Multivoice Feat. Kinda expensive, but with Quicken you could be throwing 3 spells a round. From Dragon magazine, I was also thinking about trying to fit in; Monstrous Animal Companion [General] (DR326 p32) Able to acquire a new Animal Companion Savage Empathy If you can find a Magical Beast off the Monstrous Animal Companion list in the Creature Index, you can make it your companion if you can changes its attitude towards you to ‘helpful’ or ‘friendly’ using Wild Empathy. Savage Empathy [General] (DR326 p33) Wild Empathy class ability You no longer receive a –4 penalty when trying to use Wild Empathy on a Magical Beast. Choose a creature type other than Animals, Construct, Humanoids, or Undead. You can now Empathy to influence a creature of this type if it has an Intelligence of 3 or less. You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, it applies to a different creature type. Any suggestions on a good Magical Beast companion? |
| bumrush200207-11-05, 02:08 PM | where can i find oaken resilience and fast wild shape? |
| Sang-Drax07-11-05, 02:12 PM | Blindsight in 3.0 (MotW) was incredible... you had permanent blindsight. Now, there's only Blindsense, from CV. You spend a Wild Shape to have blindsense for 1 min/character level. Blergh. I'd rather cast Embrace the Wild. |
| Sang-Drax07-11-05, 02:17 PM | where can i find oaken resilience and fast wild shape? They are both in Complete Divine. These Wild Feats kinda suck, btw... Oaken Resillence is ok, as is, maybe, Hawk's Vision... other than that... meh. |
| catharz07-11-05, 06:46 PM | I just want to buff my druid with some arcane power, but I need it fast... Actually, it would be great to finish this PrC before 16'th level, what is opssible with most of PrCs... Just go with Wizard 1/Druid 6/AH 10. Final: Wiz 1/Druid 9/AH 10, or Wiz 1/Drd 6/AH 10/Contemplative 3 (use Wildshape amulet), or maybe even Wiz 1/Drd 6/AH 10/Cnt 2/Windwalker 1 |
| Molot07-15-05, 06:30 PM | Just go with Wizard 1/Druid 6/AH 10. Final: Wiz 1/Druid 9/AH 10, or Wiz 1/Drd 6/AH 10/Contemplative 3 (use Wildshape amulet), or maybe even Wiz 1/Drd 6/AH 10/Cnt 2/Windwalker 1 Ok... I don't own all books on my own, so could you tell me when Windwalker is? I have a week to prepare best* builds possible, and I'll start with checking out these posted here :D *best means most power on 10'th, 17'th and 20'th level for me now. Healing power, Damage spells and Special Abilities counts, so there probably will be 3 different builds at the end... Spells Known aren't the problem for me as we have "tool caster" in the party. |
| secretkld07-15-05, 08:38 PM | Since this is an AH opt thread it might be an ok place to mention this. I'd posted some questions about using alter self while wildshaped to keep your animal stats while assuming your normal form. I use a greatclub (needs a feat) which shillelagh is 3d8+1 add spikes for +1/lvl and 27str from brown bear at say 8th lvl will give you 3d8+21 per hit in human form. Maybe a quarterstaff will let you get more damage in, but its nice to have access to all my armor and gear. Alter Self is, of course, easy for an AH to get. |
| Molot07-16-05, 09:25 AM | Hmm... Looks like a nice option. If any of my players would want to try this, I'll allow it (no matter if it is possible yb the RAW or not). My luck that they aren't reading this forum ]:> Anyway, Secretkld, this is the way of thinking I like :D |
| Timlagor07-16-05, 10:07 AM | Alter self requires you to keep to the same creature type Wildshape isn't entirely clear but I think it changes your type (to animal intiially). You could certainly take the stats from one and the Form + NA from another. |
| Caelic07-16-05, 10:35 AM | Interestingly, that's not quite how Alter Self is worded. It says you shift into a form of the same type as your normal form. That's another one of those not-quite-defined areas of the rules where the writers assumed common sense would be used, and it causes some problems. Is your normal form the one you default to and were born in? If so, then the Wildshape/Alter Self trick proposed actually works. Is your normal form the one you're in when you cast the Alter Self spell? If so, the trick doesn't work. |
| Molot07-16-05, 10:53 AM | Anyway, it's a fun way of using the rules. And this board is all about power, so why not :] |
| secretkld07-16-05, 12:44 PM | Now if you take a look at the Practiced spellcaster feat CA 82 , it says you increase your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class. You can apply this to AH and gain the benifit for both arcane and divine. Seems legal but it's a real boost for the AH. ;) |
| Timlagor07-16-05, 01:03 PM | Now if you take a look at the Practiced spellcaster feat CA 82 , it says you increase your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class. You can apply this to AH and gain the benifit for both arcane and divine. Seems legal but it's a real boost for the AH. ;) AH isn't a spellcasting class. It's merely a class that adds to another spellcasting class. It's been clarified in a FAQ I think. |
| Molot07-16-05, 01:09 PM | Now if you take a look at the Practiced spellcaster feat CA 82 , it says you increase your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class. You can apply this to AH and gain the benifit for both arcane and divine. Seems legal but it's a real boost for the AH. ;) This one is obvious for all double casters / not clear casters imho, and it seems to be wroted just for this purpose. Added - to the post above I know this... But it's usually enought to buff only character's main casting class (arcane or divine) to get nice power, and I was thinking that it is what the secretkld has in mind. |
| secretkld07-16-05, 04:29 PM | No Timlagor was right, I was talking about abusing the feat to apply the feat to your AH class thereby boosting both arcane and divine. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't legal, I just never saw anything on it and prestige classes. |
| Molot07-16-05, 04:50 PM | No Timlagor was right, I was talking about abusing the feat to apply the feat to your AH class thereby boosting both arcane and divine. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't legal, I just never saw anything on it and prestige classes. There was an errata or clarification that said that "casting class" is only the one with it's own casting progression. Classes that extends/continues other class' progression aren't considered to be casting classes on its own - basicaly bezaouse if character will loose all other class levels, keeping only AH, he will not be able to cast any spells at all - so AH can't be considered to be a casting class. Taking feat, you have to selsct wich casting class that will be "touched" by it... So this combination is not legal... |
| GrolubFranco07-19-05, 10:34 PM | Assuming I can´t use the Precocious Apprentice, I´m in doubt if Beastmaster really is worth it. If you have: Wizard 3 / Druid 3 / Beastmaster 1 Using Natural Bond You´ll have by lvl 7 a result of 10th lvl for the companion. That means a Dire Lion. It´s true that you lose one caster lvl. Is it worth it? Basically beastmaster adds 4 to the companion lvl, but it cuts the possibility of 9th lvl spells.. :( I agree that the build must focus on the companion. Besides the great strenght of it, with AH you´ll be able to deliver touch spells, thus making it a very strong threat. What other feats do you recommend? Another question, if I´m 3rd lvl druid and 2lvl AH I´ll have one wildshape? Good thread! :) |
| Timlagor07-20-05, 08:26 AM | IIRC wildshape is one of those grey areas -technically you might need to already have it to get it at all but most DMs will let you have it without. (I may be misremembering the class) Feats: *Required (well-more-or-less) Practiced Spellcaster (at least one of them) Natural Bond Natrual Spell (assuming wildshape) Craft WI (assuming you will get time to use it Others: Mobile Spellcaster might help -cast on your familiar and get out of the way again. Metamagic (take your pick) Improved Toughness Is there one that lets you get more interesting Animal Companions (magic beasts or something) You could also take obtain Familiar for the extra boosts but only if you can't think of anything better. |
| GrolubFranco07-20-05, 02:44 PM | Nice one the mobile spellcasting, haven´t reminded of that. :) Why do you say "assuming wildshape?" You´ll have the correspondant of a druid + AH lvl of wildshape right? What do you think about the choice between using beastmaster and losing access to 9th lvl spells, or using mystic theurge and not having such a great companion? Regards |
| Molot07-20-05, 03:35 PM | What do you think about the choice between using beastmaster and losing access to 9th lvl spells, or using mystic theurge and not having such a great companion?Question wasn't to me, but... IMHO it just depends on style of play. I just feel need for 9'th level spells. I know that sometimes it's rather stupid, but I love power :) You may preffer staying alive. |
| Namarus07-20-05, 07:25 PM | I did a test build working on the D4, W4, or Beastmaster 1 variant builds. The one that came out top was the druid 4, the beastmaster build would give a slight increase in hps, and better companion, but you lose spell progression, which is very important. You also need to waste a feat to get into the PrC. The wizard 4 build type is very sub optimal in terms of skills, and hit points. The spell progression is nice though. I suggest the following feats. Natural Bond Natural Spell Practised caster (only use 1, it's a waste to use 2) You might want to consider things like dodge, and mobility to keep with your companion. If however you want to ride your companion so you are always sharing spells, you should consider some of the mounted combat feats. Being able to negate hits on your companion are a god send. Arcane Disciple is also pretty nice if you go the mounted companion route, getting a domain that allows shield other, allows you to get double the effect from your vigour line of spells :) It is also worthwhile looking at the hour/ level long familiar spell buffs within CArc. |
| Timlagor07-20-05, 09:46 PM | I would take spells every time. Druid 4/Wiz 3 as suggested might well be the best compromise though and is probably what I would go for -though if you expect to end up taking MT anyway... try really really hard to get your DM to either use the fration rules or remove that silly BAB requirement. Wildshape: I forgot to check the book but I thought it said something liike AH levels stacked with Druid levels for the wildshape ability without actually saying that you got the wildshape ability -arguably requiring you to have it through Druid already (which I think happens at level 5...) |