Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fingers Boggis 10-20-06, 08:06 AM	First of all I know it goes against the optimisation comandments but for this build I'm not looking to optimise my casting, I'm treating it as an additional bonus rather than the main part of the character. Now thats out of the way here's what I was thinking... Swash 3/Wiz 2/Rog 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Invisible Blade 5/Daggerspell Mage2 Casts as wizard 8 but with CL=BAB All those AbChamp goodies, I'm sure I can persuade the DM to allow the +5 bonus to mage armour INT to AC and Damage Invisible Blade gives good feignt ability +5d6 sneak attack (i think, im away from books) Can channel spells through daggers, could be nifty. I'm not sure which way to go on feats though, TWF seems the way to go, DSM requires it afterall. Even using the revised pre-reqs for IB theres still alot of required feats: Weapon Foucs, TWF, IB feats(which I forget) and combat casting. So I guess my questions are what feats do you guys think would work best, are there any amazing spell combos I should be looking for with this guy and is there anything generally im missing which would make the character better? cheers for any help you can give Fingers
Fingers Boggis 10-22-06, 04:43 AM	no interest? ill try a bump before death
Sang-Drax 10-22-06, 07:18 AM	The 'revised' IB (since it's not official) requires Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, so that's not much of an issue. I kinda like your build, actually. +17 BAB, +6d6 SA, great AC, int to damage, and just some minor spellcasting that will actually be helpful. However, you should take care with that low Fort of yours. Now, for feats... yeah, you're pretty much stuck with the pre-req you must fulfill. Do find some room for Craven (CoR) and possibly Staggering Strike (CW?).
Pinky's brain 10-22-06, 07:27 AM	Rather than IB with it's ridiculous prerequisites and nerfed feinting (only once a round now) Id try to fit in 4 levels of enlightened fist and use some Ki Focus weapons.
Fingers Boggis 10-22-06, 09:44 AM	The 'revised' IB (since it's not official) requires Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, so that's not much of an issue. I kinda like your build, actually. +17 BAB, +6d6 SA, great AC, int to damage, and just some minor spellcasting that will actually be helpful. However, you should take care with that low Fort of yours. Now, for feats... yeah, you're pretty much stuck with the pre-req you must fulfill. Do find some room for Craven (CoR) and possibly Staggering Strike (CW?). the feat requirement isnt as bad as I thought then, Swash 1 gives weapon finesse, weapon focus is required by both DSM and IB and can be taken pretty early, probably at first or more likely third as it makes sense to take the first level as rogue. for a build i threw together pretty quickly its not too bad. I hadnt realised the fort would be so low though, could be a concern and if feats are tight I dont really want to use one on great fortitude or whatever the feats called. AbChamp is amazing for this kind of character though, CL=BAB makes a huge difference as does Arcane boost I think its up there as one of my fave PrCs. Rather than IB with it's ridiculous prerequisites and nerfed feinting (only once a round now) Id try to fit in 4 levels of enlightened fist and use some Ki Focus weapons. using the revised pre-reqs makes IB not too bad, its a shame feinting is only once per round but I still think the class brings alot to the build. INT to AC is particularly nice imo. I'm not sure why you would go enlightened fist instead which has worse pre-reqs, requires a high WIS as well increasing MAD and doesn't lend a huge amount to the concept. I might be missing something obvious in which case please enlighten me. At some stage I might put together more than just a build stub and try and work out a feat progression but I'm not really feeling awake enough to do it now. cheers for your input guys Fingers
Sang-Drax 10-22-06, 09:58 AM	Enlightened Fist with Carmendine Monk would use Int instead of Wis for most (if not all) Monk abilities and such. I'd still rather go IB, though. I'm trying to find some alternatives to raise your Fort save, but I have none. If only Swashbuckler granted heavy armor proficiency, maybe you could fit in a 1-level dip of Spellsword... but picking a fighter level just for that isn't really that good. What race did you choose? Human is always good, but so are whisper gnome and halfling (specially the strongheart one fom FR), specially if you pick those nifty feats from RoS and RotW (like Titan Fighting and Confound the Big Folk).
Fingers Boggis 10-22-06, 12:14 PM	Its still a theoretical build at the moment, I was thinking human though that extra feat is pretty appealing. Strongheart would give me that though as well as opening up the feats you mentioned and giving an extra point to AC. I'll have another look through the melee killer gnome thread to get some ideas about using the feats. I thought Carmedine was what was refered to after I signed off d'oh. It strikes me that that would be stretching the feats even further though, I definitely think IB offers more. Fingers
Gurrangatch 10-22-06, 01:01 PM	Where's the Carmendine Monk located? I was thinking of making an Enlightened Fist character but figured I would have to go from Sor and get Ascetic Mage but Carmendine Monk sounds promising.
Sang-Drax 10-22-06, 03:49 PM	Where's the Carmendine Monk located? I was thinking of making an Enlightened Fist character but figured I would have to go from Sor and get Ascetic Mage but Carmendine Monk sounds promising. That's from Champions of Valor.
Gurrangatch 10-22-06, 04:14 PM	Thanks I found it, I think Ascetic Mage is probably a little better if you are willing to go Sor and are going to take Arcane Strike anyway but none of this relates to the above build so I'll stop interrupting.
Fingers Boggis 10-24-06, 07:10 PM	woah, sunk a fair way after being away for a few days. its looking increasingly unlikely that ill be able to sketch out a full progression as I'm away from books and actually have work to do now! that said id still like a bit more input and just like love you have to send it out to get it back so heres what I've got so far. i think ill go human, the small combatant feats just don't seem that amazing without the full blade bravo etc treatment. so that in mind rog 1/swash 3/wiz 2/ab champ 5/rog +2/IB 5/DSM 2 im not sure on the order to take PrC levels really Human:able learner 1: craven 2: weapon finesse (swash bonus) 3: weapon focus (dagger) 6: combat casting 9: arcane strike 12: twf 15: staggering strike 18: itwf looking at that I'm wondering if twf is worth it, its not granting many attacks. However with int to damage, arcane boost, 6d6 SA and possibly arcane strike thats alot of added damage. Able learner should mean I can act as a pretty good skill monkey keeping traps covered but hopefully other handy skills as well, high int should give many skill points. any further input greatfully received :) cheers particularly to sang drax for his continued input in the thread Fingers