Arcane Mantle spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Mantle spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bobothehobo8
09-18-04, 04:05 PM I am making a Dweomerkeeper soon and I would like to know what peoples general opinion of the best ARCANE spells for "Mantle of Spells" are. Please do not try to persuade me to be a clerical version, or note how obviously stupid I am for making this choice. The build is still sketchy, but it has to be Arcane focused. Usable books: Core, CD, CW, Planar HB, Draconomicon.

I found a thread recommending which divine spells to use, but after reading most of the posts back 16 pages I decided two things.
1 - I miss search.
2 - I should just ask.

So which arcane mantle spells?

Also, if you know any wicked builds that meet my criteria or have other misc. character advice please feel free to post it/them.
Endarire
09-19-04, 01:37 PM Simulacrum.

-EE
Razorblade Smile
09-19-04, 02:59 PM I'd snag at least one combat spell of 5th-level or lower that really fits your theme. For all the other mantles, I'd go with utilitarian spells that you think you'll use a lot (and are too high-level to be put into a magic item for cheap).

Some spells I would consider include draconic polymorph, dimension door or teleport, minor creation, and wall of force.

A lot of people will try and get you to use spells that have an XP requirement, like simulacrum or limited wish, but no sane GM will allow to ignore those with or without Supernatural Spell, so just ignore them when they do.
bobothehobo8
09-19-04, 10:11 PM What kind of PrCs synergizes well with an Arcane Dweomerkeeper?
Wyldranger
09-20-04, 09:38 AM I'm not sure if you really want to wade into any other prestige class except archmage... I'm working on the same character concept you are (ie. not taking the Cheater of Mystra route) and my build looks like it will be:

Clr 1/Wiz (Diviner) 6/Dwe 10/Archmage 3

This build allows you access to the Arcane Fire, Mastery of Elements and Arcane Reach abilities of the Archmage, the lowered cost of metamagic of the Dweomerkeeper and the diviner specialization gives you extra spell slots to burn on mantle spells or Arcane Fire with minimal pain.

As to what spells to take as mantled, I know I'm going to try for limited wish. Its not as unbalancing as Wish in that you can raise ability scores and resurrect the dead. The XP cost is low enough that if you use it as the occasional "Get Out of Jail Free" card, I hope my DM wont go nuts. We shall see I suppose. Good luck with your build!
bobothehobo8
09-21-04, 07:23 PM I have found out more usable books from the DM. They are: BoED, FF, MM3, RoS, and SS.

Does this change anything?
Razorblade Smile
09-21-04, 08:00 PM Another one I remembered that works really well as a mantle is lower spell resistance from the Draconomicon. It's definitely a keeper since you never know when you're going to be up against a serious opponent when your Supernatural Spell abilities are already used up. It's even a good one to use with Supernatural Spell. :)
bobothehobo8
09-26-04, 05:51 PM Thanks for the suggestions Razorblade and Wyldranger.

This is my build so far:

Str 11, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 9. (rolled)

1--Cloistered Cleric 1- Extend Spell, Spell Focus (?), Greater Spell Focus (?), Lore
2--ClC 1, Human Paragon 1- Free MWP (Halberd?)
3--ClC 1, HP 1, Wizard 1- Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (?)
4--ClC 1, HP 2, Wiz 1- Greater Spell Focus (?), +1 Int
5--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 1- +2 Int
6--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 2- Empower Spell
7--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 3
8--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 4- +1 Int
9--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5- Craft Wondrous Items, Maximize Spell
10--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dweomerkeeper 1- Mantle of Spells 1
11--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 2
12--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 3- Quicken Spell, +1 Int, Mantle of Spells 2
13--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 4- Supernatural Spell 1
14--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 5- Mantle of Spells 3
15--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 6- Supernatural Spell 2, Feat (?)
16--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 7- +1 Int, Mantle of Spells 4
17--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 8- Supernatural Spell 3
18--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 9- Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Mantle of Spells 5
19--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 10- Cloak of Mysteries, Supernatural Spell 4
20--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 10, Archmage 1- High Arcana, +1 Int

My cleric domains are Knowledge (free), Magic (reqiured), and Planning (CW) I will also be a Domain Wizard variant from UA (Transmutation domain). I even picked up 1 High Arcana.
For epic, I would continue Archmage to 5 and then probably epic Dweomerkeeper.

I pushed back Dwe to 10th level so I could choose a level 9 for my last mantle (Wish maybe...hehehe).

As you can probably see, my DM can't seem to decide on which books we're using. At this point they are Core, CD, CW, Planar HB, Draconomicon, BoED, MM3, UA, and RoS. I hope his in-game rules are not as wishy-washy as his pre-game ones are.

Which schools should I focus in? I was thinking Evocation and Necromancy because many of my attack spells come from those schools.

As far as my build goes, any questions, comments, improvements, or witty anecdotes? It is far from complete, and I work slowly, but luckily the game hasn't started yet. And if you can't realize it from the (probably) glaring errors in my build, I would like to note I am relatively new at CO. :D
lonewolf
09-26-04, 06:07 PM Dont go Human Paragon for a primary arcane caster.
you lose one caster level already because of the cleric level and you need as high of a caster level as you can get.

Even if you want to put a lvl9 spell into mantle of spells yu should start taking Dweomerkeeper levels as early as possible. You can take another Prc in the middle. Maybe Loremaster.
bobothehobo8
09-28-04, 12:28 AM Your thought inspired me to try to get to Dwe ASAP. So I broke it down, put it back together, and it ended up much like Wylds build did.

Cloistered Cleric 1/ Domain Wizard 4/ Dweomerkeeper 10/ Domain Wizard 1/ Archmage 4.

With this method, I gain things 4 levels quicker (essentially) but only lose by trading a L8 and L9 mantle for a L5 and L6.

Plus I gain 1 caster level and 3 High Arcanas at the cost of a feat and +2 Int.

Good trade overall I think. Though I believe it could still be improved upon.

My Mantles I am looking at are (3) Dispel Magic, (4) Dimension door, (5) Wall of Force, (6) Disentigrate, and (7) Limited Wish. Good? Bad?
Sang-Drax
09-28-04, 07:53 AM Nice spell selection, IMO... but I was thinking... if you take Cleric instead of CLoistered CLeric, and take Militia feat you can actually take Spellsword 1 and wear Bended Quartz Twilight Full plate with no ASF. Of course, nothing close to the concept of your character, but it's funny either way :)
lonewolf
09-28-04, 08:00 AM better be a dwarf and take one level of runesmith so he can use a normal Fullplate without ASF.
That would also be a nice option for the last 5 levels so you can get permanent rune, which is as broken as supernatural spell.
bobothehobo8
09-28-04, 11:19 PM No militia feat because of no FR.

Runesmith though... :devil:

Hmm I would lose ~28 skill points, Lore, a feat, and 1 high arcana for 1 level

But gain no asf in full plate, ~3 hp
chipstacking
09-29-04, 03:42 PM What books are the Dweomerkeeper and Human Paragon located in? Thanks
Wyldranger
09-29-04, 03:59 PM The Dweomerkeeper has two different versions and is located in two different places. The first is a 3.0 rendition that was FR specific (Faiths and Pantheons) and the second is a 3.5 generic version located in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement located on this site. The second version is the one everyone is now referring to.

The human paragon is located in the Unearthed Arcana.
chipstacking
09-30-04, 02:43 PM Much thanks wyldranger

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bobothehobo8 09-18-04, 04:05 PM	I am making a Dweomerkeeper soon and I would like to know what peoples general opinion of the best ARCANE spells for "Mantle of Spells" are. Please do not try to persuade me to be a clerical version, or note how obviously stupid I am for making this choice. The build is still sketchy, but it has to be Arcane focused. Usable books: Core, CD, CW, Planar HB, Draconomicon. I found a thread recommending which divine spells to use, but after reading most of the posts back 16 pages I decided two things. 1 - I miss search. 2 - I should just ask. So which arcane mantle spells? Also, if you know any wicked builds that meet my criteria or have other misc. character advice please feel free to post it/them.
Endarire 09-19-04, 01:37 PM	Simulacrum. -EE
Razorblade Smile 09-19-04, 02:59 PM	I'd snag at least one combat spell of 5th-level or lower that really fits your theme. For all the other mantles, I'd go with utilitarian spells that you think you'll use a lot (and are too high-level to be put into a magic item for cheap). Some spells I would consider include draconic polymorph, dimension door or teleport, minor creation, and wall of force. A lot of people will try and get you to use spells that have an XP requirement, like simulacrum or limited wish, but no sane GM will allow to ignore those with or without Supernatural Spell, so just ignore them when they do.
bobothehobo8 09-19-04, 10:11 PM	What kind of PrCs synergizes well with an Arcane Dweomerkeeper?
Wyldranger 09-20-04, 09:38 AM	I'm not sure if you really want to wade into any other prestige class except archmage... I'm working on the same character concept you are (ie. not taking the Cheater of Mystra route) and my build looks like it will be: Clr 1/Wiz (Diviner) 6/Dwe 10/Archmage 3 This build allows you access to the Arcane Fire, Mastery of Elements and Arcane Reach abilities of the Archmage, the lowered cost of metamagic of the Dweomerkeeper and the diviner specialization gives you extra spell slots to burn on mantle spells or Arcane Fire with minimal pain. As to what spells to take as mantled, I know I'm going to try for limited wish. Its not as unbalancing as Wish in that you can raise ability scores and resurrect the dead. The XP cost is low enough that if you use it as the occasional "Get Out of Jail Free" card, I hope my DM wont go nuts. We shall see I suppose. Good luck with your build!
bobothehobo8 09-21-04, 07:23 PM	I have found out more usable books from the DM. They are: BoED, FF, MM3, RoS, and SS. Does this change anything?
Razorblade Smile 09-21-04, 08:00 PM	Another one I remembered that works really well as a mantle is lower spell resistance from the Draconomicon. It's definitely a keeper since you never know when you're going to be up against a serious opponent when your Supernatural Spell abilities are already used up. It's even a good one to use with Supernatural Spell. :)
bobothehobo8 09-26-04, 05:51 PM	Thanks for the suggestions Razorblade and Wyldranger. This is my build so far: Str 11, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 9. (rolled) 1--Cloistered Cleric 1- Extend Spell, Spell Focus (?), Greater Spell Focus (?), Lore 2--ClC 1, Human Paragon 1- Free MWP (Halberd?) 3--ClC 1, HP 1, Wizard 1- Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (?) 4--ClC 1, HP 2, Wiz 1- Greater Spell Focus (?), +1 Int 5--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 1- +2 Int 6--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 2- Empower Spell 7--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 3 8--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 4- +1 Int 9--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5- Craft Wondrous Items, Maximize Spell 10--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dweomerkeeper 1- Mantle of Spells 1 11--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 2 12--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 3- Quicken Spell, +1 Int, Mantle of Spells 2 13--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 4- Supernatural Spell 1 14--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 5- Mantle of Spells 3 15--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 6- Supernatural Spell 2, Feat (?) 16--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 7- +1 Int, Mantle of Spells 4 17--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 8- Supernatural Spell 3 18--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 9- Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Mantle of Spells 5 19--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 10- Cloak of Mysteries, Supernatural Spell 4 20--ClC 1, HP 3, Wiz 5, Dwe 10, Archmage 1- High Arcana, +1 Int My cleric domains are Knowledge (free), Magic (reqiured), and Planning (CW) I will also be a Domain Wizard variant from UA (Transmutation domain). I even picked up 1 High Arcana. For epic, I would continue Archmage to 5 and then probably epic Dweomerkeeper. I pushed back Dwe to 10th level so I could choose a level 9 for my last mantle (Wish maybe...hehehe). As you can probably see, my DM can't seem to decide on which books we're using. At this point they are Core, CD, CW, Planar HB, Draconomicon, BoED, MM3, UA, and RoS. I hope his in-game rules are not as wishy-washy as his pre-game ones are. Which schools should I focus in? I was thinking Evocation and Necromancy because many of my attack spells come from those schools. As far as my build goes, any questions, comments, improvements, or witty anecdotes? It is far from complete, and I work slowly, but luckily the game hasn't started yet. And if you can't realize it from the (probably) glaring errors in my build, I would like to note I am relatively new at CO. :D
lonewolf 09-26-04, 06:07 PM	Dont go Human Paragon for a primary arcane caster. you lose one caster level already because of the cleric level and you need as high of a caster level as you can get. Even if you want to put a lvl9 spell into mantle of spells yu should start taking Dweomerkeeper levels as early as possible. You can take another Prc in the middle. Maybe Loremaster.
bobothehobo8 09-28-04, 12:28 AM	Your thought inspired me to try to get to Dwe ASAP. So I broke it down, put it back together, and it ended up much like Wylds build did. Cloistered Cleric 1/ Domain Wizard 4/ Dweomerkeeper 10/ Domain Wizard 1/ Archmage 4. With this method, I gain things 4 levels quicker (essentially) but only lose by trading a L8 and L9 mantle for a L5 and L6. Plus I gain 1 caster level and 3 High Arcanas at the cost of a feat and +2 Int. Good trade overall I think. Though I believe it could still be improved upon. My Mantles I am looking at are (3) Dispel Magic, (4) Dimension door, (5) Wall of Force, (6) Disentigrate, and (7) Limited Wish. Good? Bad?
Sang-Drax 09-28-04, 07:53 AM	Nice spell selection, IMO... but I was thinking... if you take Cleric instead of CLoistered CLeric, and take Militia feat you can actually take Spellsword 1 and wear Bended Quartz Twilight Full plate with no ASF. Of course, nothing close to the concept of your character, but it's funny either way :)
lonewolf 09-28-04, 08:00 AM	better be a dwarf and take one level of runesmith so he can use a normal Fullplate without ASF. That would also be a nice option for the last 5 levels so you can get permanent rune, which is as broken as supernatural spell.
bobothehobo8 09-28-04, 11:19 PM	No militia feat because of no FR. Runesmith though... :devil: Hmm I would lose ~28 skill points, Lore, a feat, and 1 high arcana for 1 level But gain no asf in full plate, ~3 hp
chipstacking 09-29-04, 03:42 PM	What books are the Dweomerkeeper and Human Paragon located in? Thanks
Wyldranger 09-29-04, 03:59 PM	The Dweomerkeeper has two different versions and is located in two different places. The first is a 3.0 rendition that was FR specific (Faiths and Pantheons) and the second is a 3.5 generic version located in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement located on this site. The second version is the one everyone is now referring to. The human paragon is located in the Unearthed Arcana.
chipstacking 09-30-04, 02:43 PM	Much thanks wyldranger