Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DTemplar5 05-08-05, 02:11 PM	I'm posting here to ask of a terrifing build that I should be VERY werry of- the worse you guys could throw in the campaign with these restrictions/options. Base Classes: Wizard Sorcerer Wu Jen Warmage Warlock Spellthief (but if caught, insantly expelled- a fun challenege) Since there are many PrCs that are acceptable- I use a simple guideline. It MUST built with caster progression with one exception- Dragon Disciple. Also, it must be either from the following sources: -Players Guide to Faerun -Magic of Faerun (rather important) -Underdark -Unapprochable East -Complete series -SRD Character generation rules- ECL 9, 32-pt buy (or roll, but that doesn't apply for the purposes of this thread), maximum racial level adjustment +2. Do your worse- but if you need any clarifications, I'll try to patch over what I forgot to place. I need to be prepared for nightmares.
catharz 05-08-05, 02:38 PM	The standard W 5/Inc 4 will probably be best. A lesser Svirfneblin Wizard 5/Shadow adept 1/Shadowcraft mage 3 could also be quite good.
lokkesmadr 05-08-05, 06:12 PM	What's the limit on items? Are they characters capable of getting anything within their price range? Can the characters use custom items? Also, are flaws allowed? Many magic based builds thrive on multiple flaws. In fact, what options, if any, are allowed from UA
DTemplar5 05-08-05, 09:21 PM	What's the limit on items? Are they characters capable of getting anything within their price range? Can the characters use custom items? Also, are flaws allowed? Many magic based builds thrive on multiple flaws. In fact, what options, if any, are allowed from UA 36,000 gp- any Complete/FR/SRD item, max item price at 18,000gp Custom items would be approved by me No flaws- though varient wizards and battle sorcerer options are acceptable. Anything else, or did I hit it all?
lokkesmadr 05-08-05, 09:50 PM	I'd be on the lookout for the spelldancing necropolitans then. The basic build is something along the lines of: Martial Wizard 5 / Spelldancer (MoF) 2 / Anything 2 (probably incantatrix) With the persistent spell and heighten spell feats. At 9th level this build can pretty much break your power curve by reliably tossing 5th level buffs around, heightened to 9th level (or, indeed, higher) and made persistent. The painful ickyness of necropolitan spelldancers is best illustrated by a theurgic build, really, but I'm not sure if any base classes beyond the ones you listed are allowed. EDIT: A possible build would be something like: Human Wizard Wiz 1 - Dodge, Extend Spell, Iron Will Wiz 2 Wiz 3 - Combat Casting becomes a necropolitan Wiz 4 Wiz 5 - Mobility Incantatrix 1 - Persistent spell, Endurance Incantatrix 2 Spelldancer 1 Spelldancer 2 - Arcane Disciple [war] That build can start the day with persistent divine power, mage armor, greater magic weapon, all the stat buffs, shield &c. In fact, any spell that can be made persistent this *will* make persistent every morning if it can make a DC 21 (often lower) perform check. With 12 ranks, a skill boosting item and a little charisma, that's not hard.
PhaedrusXY 05-09-05, 12:07 AM	I'd be on the lookout for the spelldancing necropolitans then.Is necropolitan printed anywhere outside of Libris Mortis? I didn't see that in his list of books available. You could still do it without being a Necropolitan, I'm sure, just not as easily.
DTemplar5 05-09-05, 12:17 AM	There might be other classes I would accept (Bard is not one of them), but I would have to look at it. The main requirement is Arcane casting abilites. Now, if you were having to go into a PrC that had other class requirements, that would work- but the main focus is arcane casting abilities. Most events are either team based (picture 3-Dimentional Hockey with 6 teams playing simulatiniously) or one-on-one (duels-the more popular aspect of the campaign). Buff casters are generally screwed by dispelers (dispel is a common tactic in mage duels- generally used to counterspell things not prepared- but it can be used for dispeling buffs). Granted, that's a very powerful build normally, it's just not powerful in a setting were any smart dueler (sans the spellthief) would have a Dispel Magic prepared at least 3 times. A good nightmare though- but not nightmarish enough in this kind of campaign.
PhaedrusXY 05-09-05, 12:32 AM	Isn't the Spellblade enhancement in Magic of Faerun? By most people's reckoning, that makes you immune to targeted Dispel Magic. You'd only be vulnerable to an area dispel then, which will knock down at most one buff.
lokkesmadr 05-09-05, 12:37 AM	Well if that's the way things are in your campaign then the Shadowcraft Mages are probably going to be your nightmare. Catharz mentioned it already but it bears repeating, given the nature of your game. With effectively +4 bonus against being dispelled +4 spell penetration and +2 spell DC for most of the spells they're using they can really be a pain. However, they're not horribly annoying until about level 12, so you've probably still got them to look forward to. Alternatively, a Dual Wand weilder can be nasty for sheer death. With Incantatrix it becomes threatening at 10th level though, so not a concern yet... Area dispel is a non-issue since it targets the highest spell level on the character and, knowing this, our lucky spelldancer can just drop the Arcane Disciple feat in favour of heighten spell. It allows him to boost the save DC of his damage shields (fire shield et al) and lets him boost a few Resistance and Light spells to spell level 10 to take the dispel hits (I believe it targets highest caster level, preferentially selecting highest spell level if they're the same CL)
happymoocow 05-09-05, 12:46 AM	Gish anyone? Wizard 5, fighter 1, EK 3 EK to ten then wiz to 8 then fighter 1 more.
Talen Lee 05-09-05, 01:57 AM	Sounds like a campaign where a full-BAB beater is going to be quite happy. If he can get his saves up, of course. If Races of Destiny's allowed for races, the Illumian Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 4, with Militia could do the trick. Just pick your spells well.
DTemplar5 05-09-05, 01:30 PM	Good points, allow me to see how I can approch some of them. Gish builds- They also rely on buff magics, and summoners would be able to buy time to let loose more potent spells by putting a few weaker creatuers in the way of the gish. But if the gish gets a single hit with Arcane Strike, however... necropoilitian issue- I'm not too worried about necropolitians- the necromancer in the party is more interested in being a lich- and that has more problems than mere necropolitians (though he may delay, or not do so, but it would be well within his power to do so) It's a legal move, though he won't be going up in levels anytime soon.... Spelldancer issue- This is the tricky part. I've looked through and there's no cap to the spell level- and Hightened Persistant Spells are difficult to dispel. However, given the nature of the school- there would probrobly be a high-level caster (like a referee) using Greater Dispel (or worse...) to knock out buffs cast before duels and other sports and activities. Also, in just 2 more levels, the Anti-magic field shows up- and buffs aren't very good in those situations- though the gish will do just fine. Shadowcrafter Mages- Illusions, for the most part. This is an arcane school- high will saves are the norm- though this build is still quite annoying- it's hardly a nightmare (pun intended, given it's special abilties). It's speicality is not as powerful due to the setting. Good ideas still- though I see where most people come from here on the op-forums- Buff-Gish builds are the optimal build for magic. They would definately enjoy the Buff Caster's class, who's more like P.E. than the actual P.E. class. :P
lokkesmadr 05-09-05, 08:15 PM	The shadowcraft mage, as I said, is only really a pain after 12th level. At that point your will save will avail you very little against the shadow mages. You succeed on your save and, well, you're still dealing with almost a fully powered spell which you're not going to get rid of any time soon (thanks to the dispel resistance). I'd say it's probably worse when the other characters are arcane since their usual tricks for avoiding spells are suddenly less effective.