Arcane Spells wh Divine Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Spells wh Divine Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IThoughtISawA...
02-07-05, 05:17 PM Some time ago, there was a great build called the Divine Drainer that used Divine Metamagic + Energy Drain with the dweomerkeeper PRC to do simply amazing level drain, I'd post a modification of it taking into account what I have here, but with the search down, it'll have to wait a bit.

The biggest downside to the build, IMHO, is that it required a little arcane casting that never really was able to realize its full potential,because the build was forced to focus on Divine Casting so that its kill spell(s) could be effected by Divine Metamagic.

I lamented (to a small degree) because, while level draining is awe inspiring, it just seems to lack something compared to raw hit point damage (yeah, traditional 2E thinking, but bare with me). The cleric list, while great, just doesn't compare in AoE or raw high end damaged to Sorc/Wiz list, but without a way to apply an insane nume of metamagic effects (gained by divine metamagic), it didn't compare.

Enter the feat "Alternate Source Spell" from DR 325- which lets you prepare arcane spells as divine and vice versa, for the small cost of one caster level on the spell's resolution (not a level change!).

This opens up a new way to run straight into Dweomerkeeper and crazy metamagic enhancement!

Consider a twin spell, maximize spell, split ray, acid admixed, chained Polar Ray- 400d6 for 2,400 points to the primary, 1,200 to each of 20 other targets (I'm assuming this boad would have no touble finding a way to bump the caster level to 25).

For the evil types, a twin spell, split ray Avasculate (yes, it is doable using a domain spell, but it just seems so much classier from a wizard) drops your foe to 1/16 of his hp, without a save (nearly as useful as the 3.0 Harm).

Consider also the various Arcane buff spells most divine casters would give a kidney for- shapechange, ghost form, kiss of the vampire, fiendform, all are now easilly available with Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Divine Metamagic Persistant Spell and a few turning attempts.

Normally, I much prefer Wizards to Sorcerers, but the charisma synergy possible here could be a very good thing.

Consider the following:
Wizard 3/ Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 4/Dweomerkeeper (Wizard) 10, with Undeath and Magic Domains.

I'll be doing out a full build later tonight and tomorow (and juggling the feats will certainly prove problematic), but thought the idea was good enough that it should be shared.

Actually, something just occured to me (and this is something that has most likely come up in the past, but if not, well, think about it)- Arcane Spell Failure is for spells prepared and cast as Arcane spells, not necessarilly spells off the 'arcane caster's' spell lists. Does Alternate Source Spell allow you to completely ignore Spell Failure for your entire spell selection at the cost of a level's effect on the spell's result (a die of damage, shorter rnage and duration, etc)?
lokkesmadr
02-07-05, 05:26 PM Um, I hate to sound dumb, but are you using a different version if divine metamagic than the one in CD? It's just that, well, divine metamagic can be freely applied to arcane spells anyway. There's no requirement that divine metamagic be used on divine spells, it's just 'spells that you know'.
Iaimeki
02-08-05, 02:26 AM The CD errata changes Divine Metamagic so it only applies to divine spells. You must also take a metamagic feat before taking Divine Metamagic for it.

I don't have the Dragon in question. However, normally, a spell off a divine spellcasting list prepared in an arcane spell slot is still an arcane spell, so arcane spell failure would apply, though if you prepare an arcane spell in a divine spellcasting slot, you could cast without worrying about arcane spelll failure.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IThoughtISawA... 02-07-05, 05:17 PM	Some time ago, there was a great build called the Divine Drainer that used Divine Metamagic + Energy Drain with the dweomerkeeper PRC to do simply amazing level drain, I'd post a modification of it taking into account what I have here, but with the search down, it'll have to wait a bit. The biggest downside to the build, IMHO, is that it required a little arcane casting that never really was able to realize its full potential,because the build was forced to focus on Divine Casting so that its kill spell(s) could be effected by Divine Metamagic. I lamented (to a small degree) because, while level draining is awe inspiring, it just seems to lack something compared to raw hit point damage (yeah, traditional 2E thinking, but bare with me). The cleric list, while great, just doesn't compare in AoE or raw high end damaged to Sorc/Wiz list, but without a way to apply an insane nume of metamagic effects (gained by divine metamagic), it didn't compare. Enter the feat "Alternate Source Spell" from DR 325- which lets you prepare arcane spells as divine and vice versa, for the small cost of one caster level on the spell's resolution (not a level change!). This opens up a new way to run straight into Dweomerkeeper and crazy metamagic enhancement! Consider a twin spell, maximize spell, split ray, acid admixed, chained Polar Ray- 400d6 for 2,400 points to the primary, 1,200 to each of 20 other targets (I'm assuming this boad would have no touble finding a way to bump the caster level to 25). For the evil types, a twin spell, split ray Avasculate (yes, it is doable using a domain spell, but it just seems so much classier from a wizard) drops your foe to 1/16 of his hp, without a save (nearly as useful as the 3.0 Harm). Consider also the various Arcane buff spells most divine casters would give a kidney for- shapechange, ghost form, kiss of the vampire, fiendform, all are now easilly available with Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Divine Metamagic Persistant Spell and a few turning attempts. Normally, I much prefer Wizards to Sorcerers, but the charisma synergy possible here could be a very good thing. Consider the following: Wizard 3/ Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 4/Dweomerkeeper (Wizard) 10, with Undeath and Magic Domains. I'll be doing out a full build later tonight and tomorow (and juggling the feats will certainly prove problematic), but thought the idea was good enough that it should be shared. Actually, something just occured to me (and this is something that has most likely come up in the past, but if not, well, think about it)- Arcane Spell Failure is for spells prepared and cast as Arcane spells, not necessarilly spells off the 'arcane caster's' spell lists. Does Alternate Source Spell allow you to completely ignore Spell Failure for your entire spell selection at the cost of a level's effect on the spell's result (a die of damage, shorter rnage and duration, etc)?
lokkesmadr 02-07-05, 05:26 PM	Um, I hate to sound dumb, but are you using a different version if divine metamagic than the one in CD? It's just that, well, divine metamagic can be freely applied to arcane spells anyway. There's no requirement that divine metamagic be used on divine spells, it's just 'spells that you know'.
Iaimeki 02-08-05, 02:26 AM	The CD errata changes Divine Metamagic so it only applies to divine spells. You must also take a metamagic feat before taking Divine Metamagic for it. I don't have the Dragon in question. However, normally, a spell off a divine spellcasting list prepared in an arcane spell slot is still an arcane spell, so arcane spell failure would apply, though if you prepare an arcane spell in a divine spellcasting slot, you could cast without worrying about arcane spelll failure.