Arcane Strike before 9? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Strike before 9? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ArcWF
08-10-05, 04:27 PM I'm looking at making a Warforged Fighter/Wizard. My intent was to use lots of self-buffing spells and Arcane Strike to do be effective in melee. However, our campaign is starting at level 3, and every avenue I try seems to lead to me not being able to get Arcane Strike until level 9. Knowing our group, it's hard to say if we'll ever get there. Level 6 is more plausible though.

Does anyone know any path to get Arcane Strike before Level 9?

And, in general, if I am a Warforged who will be taking Adamantine Body, what would you recommend for a good fighter/wizard class progression?

Right now I'm looking at: Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 6 Cha 6

1: Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Adamantine Body
2: Wizard 1
3: Wizard 2 - Increased Damage Reduction (I figure DR 3/adamantine will be pretty useful at this level in Eberron)
4: Wizard 3
5: Wizard 4
6: Wizard 5 - Still Spell, Spontaneous Casting (swap any prepared spell for any spell from your spellbookfor 2 action points)
7: Wizard 6
8: Spellsword 1
9...: Eldritch Knight or Cyran Avenger (I don't know enough about this class yet--I just know that it gives +1 BAB and +1 caster level (after 1st level, just like EK)).

And at 9 I would finally pick up Arcane Strike.

I don't really have any planned mitigation for ASF, except the 10% from Spellsword 1. I'll mostly be using non-somatic buffs and spells (there are some good ones) and Still Spell here and there. But mainly I had planned to use Arcane Strike, which ignores ASF.

Advice on my plight (if there is any to be had) and overall comments on my build are welcome.
slade_caizer
08-10-05, 04:42 PM I'm looking at making a Warforged Fighter/Wizard. My intent was to use lots of self-buffing spells and Arcane Strike to do be effective in melee. However, our campaign is starting at level 3, and every avenue I try seems to lead to me not being able to get Arcane Strike until level 9. Knowing our group, it's hard to say if we'll ever get there. Level 6 is more plausible though.

Does anyone know any path to get Arcane Strike before Level 9?

And, in general, if I am a Warforged who will be taking Adamantine Body, what would you recommend for a good fighter/wizard class progression?

Right now I'm looking at: Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 6 Cha 6

1: Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Adamantine Body
2: Wizard 1
3: Wizard 2 - Increased Damage Reduction (I figure DR 3/adamantine will be pretty useful at this level in Eberron)
4: Wizard 3
5: Wizard 4
6: Wizard 5 - Still Spell, Spontaneous Casting (swap any prepared spell for any spell from your spell list for 2 action points)
7: Wizard 6
8: Spellsword 1
9...: Eldritch Knight or Cyran Avenger (I don't know enough about this class yet--I just know that it gives +1 BAB and +1 caster level (after 1st level, just like EK)).

And at 9 I would finally pick up Arcane Strike.

I don't really have any planned mitigation for ASF, except the 10% from Spellsword 1. I'll mostly be using non-somatic buffs and spells (there are some good ones) and Still Spell here and there. But mainly I had planned to use Arcane Strike, which ignores ASF.

Advice on my plight (if there is any to be had) and overall comments on my build are welcome.

I'd recommend dropping Improved DR and moving Still Spell up one level, throwing Arcane Strike in at 6th. Also, I suggest substituting Knight Phantom for Eldritch Knight. Numbers-wise they are identical, but KP gives you some nice abilities on the side and will help with mobility.

I was going to suggest Mithril Body, but then I saw your dexterity score. KP ignores ASF while in light armor, but you NEED heavy armor for AC's sake. The best thing I could guess at would be to pick a lot of spells with no somatic components early on (True Strike for that Power Attack is looking attractive). Alternately, get imbedded wands of your bread-n-butter spells. I don't recall there ever being ASF for wands/scrolls/etc.

[Edit: I completely forgot about the BAB requirement for Arcane Strike. That said, I'd have to agree with swapping out wizard for something else. Item crafting really would be the way to go though... You sure you don't wanna make a Warforged Fighter/Artificer? Either way, the more I think about it the more I like the image of imbedded wands. Make the best wand of Repair Damage you can and make one of Enervation. Then swap your strength and dexterity scores. :D ]
ArcWF
08-10-05, 04:54 PM The reason I can't take Arcane Strike at 6 is because of its prereqs (+4 BAB and able to cast 3rd level arcane spells). The reason I am not taking Still Spell until 6th is because I really don't have the higher slots to accomdate stilled spells until then. So that left me with a free feat at 3rd, and I figured Increased DR is always fun.

I keep hearing about Knight Phantom--where is it from? And either way, whatever happens after 9th level isn't such a big deal. My main concern is what happens before then.
Qaetar
08-10-05, 05:11 PM Two ways I know of to get Arcane Strike before ninth level:

1. Battle Sorceror from Unearthed Arcana. Gains BAB +4 and 3rd level spells at level 6. Gets fewer spells known/per day.

2. Also using Unearthed Arcana, Wizard 4/Fighter BAB 1/Human Paragon 2 (7th Level) or Sorc 6/Human Paragon 2 (8th Level)

Battle Sorc 6 with the Militia Feat to Eldritch Knight to Dragonslayer to Spellsword is pretty mean, but low on HP.

(Qaetar)
Sieylianna
08-10-05, 05:26 PM Right now I'm looking at: Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 6 Cha 6

1: Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Adamantine Body
2: Wizard 1
3: Wizard 2 - Increased Damage Reduction (I figure DR 3/adamantine will be pretty useful at this level in Eberron)
4: Wizard 3
5: Wizard 4
6: Wizard 5 - Still Spell, Spontaneous Casting (swap any prepared spell for any spell from your spellbookfor 2 action points)
7: Wizard 6
8: Spellsword 1
9...: Eldritch Knight or Cyran Avenger (I don't know enough about this class yet--I just know that it gives +1 BAB and +1 caster level (after 1st level, just like EK)).

Advice on my plight (if there is any to be had) and overall comments on my build are welcome.

Your reflex save is going to be horrible. I have serious doubts that the PC is survivable at mid-levels even with a 16 Con.

I don't think increased damage reduction or power attack is worthwhile, since you're not a front line fighter (at least not at low levels). You probably want craft wondrous item, so you can make a cloak of resistance. If you scribe a scroll of repair light damage, is there someone else in the party who can use it on you when you're damaged? You may want to think about craft wand, since (IIRC) there is no ASF for a spell from a wand.

I don't think Spontaneous casting is worthwhile for the opposite reason, unless your DM is fairly generous, you won't have that many spells in your spellbook. Plus the limitations on casting in armor is probably going to limit the spells you try to cast.

Ed
ArcWF
08-10-05, 06:07 PM Is there really anything to be done about the Reflex save, besides taking 18 Con and 14 Strength instead of two 16's?

Power Attack is worthwhile I think, to take advantage of True Strike, especially as I will be using a two-handed weapon. I do plan on being a front-line fighter, despite my many levels of wizard. At low levels, my Strength makes up for my slow BAB, and I'll have plenty of spell buffs.

Increased Damage Reduction is just something I thought would come in handy. But if you know of a good feat to replace it, I'm all ears.

Spontaneous Casting is just something I thought would be useful to any wizard. And I don't know how generous the DM will be with spells. Having SUdden Still would help out to make Spontaneous Casting more useful I suppose.

I'm not taking any creation feats since we have an Artificer in the party.
ninjarabbit
08-10-05, 06:17 PM If you're planning on being a frontline fight I think fighter2/wizard4/spellsword5/eldritchknight9 is better than your current build.

Heck you could take 7 levels of spellsword and get the twilight enchantment on yourself and you don't have to worry about ASF anymore.
ArcWF
08-10-05, 06:20 PM That much spellsword is an awful lot of lost casting levels. I only sniped the first level of it because it gives +1 BAB/casting, d8 HP, and the ASF.

As for the first suggestion, that was my original intent, but I decided to add more wizard after Spontaneous Casting caught my eye (but it requires 5 levels of casting).
slade_caizer
08-10-05, 06:25 PM If you're planning on being a frontline fight I think fighter2/wizard4/spellsword5/eldritchknight9 is better than your current build.

Heck you could take 7 levels of spellsword and get the twilight enchantment on yourself and you don't have to worry about ASF anymore.

That's a great idea. Now knowing it's going to be a frontliner, I'd suggest just finishing Spellsword for channel spell and the ASF elimination.

Ftr2/Wiz4/SS10/EK4 might be what your aiming for. You'd only end up with CL 12, but with a BAB of 18 that's plenty of hard power attacking to be had (and Arcane Strike throwing on +6/+6d4 wouldn't exactly be the worst thing in the world).

The funniest image I'm getting in my head, is channeling a Scorching Ray into your slam, quickening a True Strike, power attacking to full, and dumping some 6th level spell. Very Fatal Fury of you. :cool:
ArcWF
08-10-05, 07:10 PM That's a great idea. Now knowing it's going to be a frontliner, I'd suggest just finishing Spellsword for channel spell and the ASF elimination.

Ftr2/Wiz4/SS10/EK4 might be what your aiming for. You'd only end up with CL 12, but with a BAB of 18 that's plenty of hard power attacking to be had (and Arcane Strike throwing on +6/+6d4 wouldn't exactly be the worst thing in the world).

The funniest image I'm getting in my head, is channeling a Scorching Ray into your slam, quickening a True Strike, power attacking to full, and dumping some 6th level spell. Very Fatal Fury of you. :cool:

The problem is, I'm not building for level 20, or even for level 16. I'm looking forward to Level 9, at most. Remember that I have to play this character from 3 until then :) And Spellsword is not going to provide much ASF relief at level 3. Though I suppose it's only going to cost me one caster level at level 3 also.

The reason I started to lean more toward wizard (and the Spontaneous Casting feat) is that I want to be of use to the party in many different situations.

The other thing I want to be able to do is take a fair bit of damage.

Well, I've got time to see how the wind blows. I don't have any hard choices to make, except what feat to take at 3rd level, until I hit 6th. Then I suppose I'll have to choose to focus more in fighting of wizzing.
DisposableHero_
08-10-05, 07:45 PM I keep hearing about Knight Phantom--where is it from? And either way, whatever happens after 9th level isn't such a big deal. My main concern is what happens before then.
The knight phantom is in Five Nations, but it is also found in the excerpt from Five Nations (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4)
Zemyla
08-10-05, 08:41 PM What can be done for the reflex save, if you're willing to spend a feat on it, is Insightful Reflexes (CA). It lets you use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Dex modifier for reflex saves.
Sieylianna
08-10-05, 10:45 PM Is there really anything to be done about the Reflex save, besides taking 18 Con and 14 Strength instead of two 16's?

Power Attack is worthwhile I think, to take advantage of True Strike, especially as I will be using a two-handed weapon. I do plan on being a front-line fighter, despite my many levels of wizard. At low levels, my Strength makes up for my slow BAB, and I'll have plenty of spell buffs.

But you can only power attack for your BAB, whether you true strike or not. So picking it up a first level is a waste. I wouldn't bother with it until 6th or preferably use your Eldritch Knight bonus feat for it.

As soimeone else pointed out, there is Insightful Reflexes, if your DM allows it. A negative dexterity is a very bad thing, I'd at least try to get it to 10.

Have you looked at the warforged racial substitution levels?

Ed
ArcWF
08-10-05, 11:49 PM Warforged sub levels are for Art, Fighter, and Paladin. The Art ones are okay, but the others suck.

I'll check out Insightful Reflexes.

As for Power Attack, even at level 3, with only a +2 BAB, I can get 4 damage using a 2-hander. At level 3, that's not insignificant. Against a heavily (for level 3) foe, I'll be inconsistent in hitting them without True Strike. But True Strike without any PA would be overkill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ArcWF 08-10-05, 04:27 PM	I'm looking at making a Warforged Fighter/Wizard. My intent was to use lots of self-buffing spells and Arcane Strike to do be effective in melee. However, our campaign is starting at level 3, and every avenue I try seems to lead to me not being able to get Arcane Strike until level 9. Knowing our group, it's hard to say if we'll ever get there. Level 6 is more plausible though. Does anyone know any path to get Arcane Strike before Level 9? And, in general, if I am a Warforged who will be taking Adamantine Body, what would you recommend for a good fighter/wizard class progression? Right now I'm looking at: Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 6 Cha 6 1: Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Adamantine Body 2: Wizard 1 3: Wizard 2 - Increased Damage Reduction (I figure DR 3/adamantine will be pretty useful at this level in Eberron) 4: Wizard 3 5: Wizard 4 6: Wizard 5 - Still Spell, Spontaneous Casting (swap any prepared spell for any spell from your spellbookfor 2 action points) 7: Wizard 6 8: Spellsword 1 9...: Eldritch Knight or Cyran Avenger (I don't know enough about this class yet--I just know that it gives +1 BAB and +1 caster level (after 1st level, just like EK)). And at 9 I would finally pick up Arcane Strike. I don't really have any planned mitigation for ASF, except the 10% from Spellsword 1. I'll mostly be using non-somatic buffs and spells (there are some good ones) and Still Spell here and there. But mainly I had planned to use Arcane Strike, which ignores ASF. Advice on my plight (if there is any to be had) and overall comments on my build are welcome.
slade_caizer 08-10-05, 04:42 PM	I'm looking at making a Warforged Fighter/Wizard. My intent was to use lots of self-buffing spells and Arcane Strike to do be effective in melee. However, our campaign is starting at level 3, and every avenue I try seems to lead to me not being able to get Arcane Strike until level 9. Knowing our group, it's hard to say if we'll ever get there. Level 6 is more plausible though. Does anyone know any path to get Arcane Strike before Level 9? And, in general, if I am a Warforged who will be taking Adamantine Body, what would you recommend for a good fighter/wizard class progression? Right now I'm looking at: Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 6 Cha 6 1: Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Adamantine Body 2: Wizard 1 3: Wizard 2 - Increased Damage Reduction (I figure DR 3/adamantine will be pretty useful at this level in Eberron) 4: Wizard 3 5: Wizard 4 6: Wizard 5 - Still Spell, Spontaneous Casting (swap any prepared spell for any spell from your spell list for 2 action points) 7: Wizard 6 8: Spellsword 1 9...: Eldritch Knight or Cyran Avenger (I don't know enough about this class yet--I just know that it gives +1 BAB and +1 caster level (after 1st level, just like EK)). And at 9 I would finally pick up Arcane Strike. I don't really have any planned mitigation for ASF, except the 10% from Spellsword 1. I'll mostly be using non-somatic buffs and spells (there are some good ones) and Still Spell here and there. But mainly I had planned to use Arcane Strike, which ignores ASF. Advice on my plight (if there is any to be had) and overall comments on my build are welcome. I'd recommend dropping Improved DR and moving Still Spell up one level, throwing Arcane Strike in at 6th. Also, I suggest substituting Knight Phantom for Eldritch Knight. Numbers-wise they are identical, but KP gives you some nice abilities on the side and will help with mobility. I was going to suggest Mithril Body, but then I saw your dexterity score. KP ignores ASF while in light armor, but you NEED heavy armor for AC's sake. The best thing I could guess at would be to pick a lot of spells with no somatic components early on (True Strike for that Power Attack is looking attractive). Alternately, get imbedded wands of your bread-n-butter spells. I don't recall there ever being ASF for wands/scrolls/etc. [Edit: I completely forgot about the BAB requirement for Arcane Strike. That said, I'd have to agree with swapping out wizard for something else. Item crafting really would be the way to go though... You sure you don't wanna make a Warforged Fighter/Artificer? Either way, the more I think about it the more I like the image of imbedded wands. Make the best wand of Repair Damage you can and make one of Enervation. Then swap your strength and dexterity scores. :D ]
ArcWF 08-10-05, 04:54 PM	The reason I can't take Arcane Strike at 6 is because of its prereqs (+4 BAB and able to cast 3rd level arcane spells). The reason I am not taking Still Spell until 6th is because I really don't have the higher slots to accomdate stilled spells until then. So that left me with a free feat at 3rd, and I figured Increased DR is always fun. I keep hearing about Knight Phantom--where is it from? And either way, whatever happens after 9th level isn't such a big deal. My main concern is what happens before then.
Qaetar 08-10-05, 05:11 PM	Two ways I know of to get Arcane Strike before ninth level: 1. Battle Sorceror from Unearthed Arcana. Gains BAB +4 and 3rd level spells at level 6. Gets fewer spells known/per day. 2. Also using Unearthed Arcana, Wizard 4/Fighter BAB 1/Human Paragon 2 (7th Level) or Sorc 6/Human Paragon 2 (8th Level) Battle Sorc 6 with the Militia Feat to Eldritch Knight to Dragonslayer to Spellsword is pretty mean, but low on HP. (Qaetar)
Sieylianna 08-10-05, 05:26 PM	Right now I'm looking at: Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 6 Cha 6 1: Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Adamantine Body 2: Wizard 1 3: Wizard 2 - Increased Damage Reduction (I figure DR 3/adamantine will be pretty useful at this level in Eberron) 4: Wizard 3 5: Wizard 4 6: Wizard 5 - Still Spell, Spontaneous Casting (swap any prepared spell for any spell from your spellbookfor 2 action points) 7: Wizard 6 8: Spellsword 1 9...: Eldritch Knight or Cyran Avenger (I don't know enough about this class yet--I just know that it gives +1 BAB and +1 caster level (after 1st level, just like EK)). Advice on my plight (if there is any to be had) and overall comments on my build are welcome. Your reflex save is going to be horrible. I have serious doubts that the PC is survivable at mid-levels even with a 16 Con. I don't think increased damage reduction or power attack is worthwhile, since you're not a front line fighter (at least not at low levels). You probably want craft wondrous item, so you can make a cloak of resistance. If you scribe a scroll of repair light damage, is there someone else in the party who can use it on you when you're damaged? You may want to think about craft wand, since (IIRC) there is no ASF for a spell from a wand. I don't think Spontaneous casting is worthwhile for the opposite reason, unless your DM is fairly generous, you won't have that many spells in your spellbook. Plus the limitations on casting in armor is probably going to limit the spells you try to cast. Ed
ArcWF 08-10-05, 06:07 PM	Is there really anything to be done about the Reflex save, besides taking 18 Con and 14 Strength instead of two 16's? Power Attack is worthwhile I think, to take advantage of True Strike, especially as I will be using a two-handed weapon. I do plan on being a front-line fighter, despite my many levels of wizard. At low levels, my Strength makes up for my slow BAB, and I'll have plenty of spell buffs. Increased Damage Reduction is just something I thought would come in handy. But if you know of a good feat to replace it, I'm all ears. Spontaneous Casting is just something I thought would be useful to any wizard. And I don't know how generous the DM will be with spells. Having SUdden Still would help out to make Spontaneous Casting more useful I suppose. I'm not taking any creation feats since we have an Artificer in the party.
ninjarabbit 08-10-05, 06:17 PM	If you're planning on being a frontline fight I think fighter2/wizard4/spellsword5/eldritchknight9 is better than your current build. Heck you could take 7 levels of spellsword and get the twilight enchantment on yourself and you don't have to worry about ASF anymore.
ArcWF 08-10-05, 06:20 PM	That much spellsword is an awful lot of lost casting levels. I only sniped the first level of it because it gives +1 BAB/casting, d8 HP, and the ASF. As for the first suggestion, that was my original intent, but I decided to add more wizard after Spontaneous Casting caught my eye (but it requires 5 levels of casting).
slade_caizer 08-10-05, 06:25 PM	If you're planning on being a frontline fight I think fighter2/wizard4/spellsword5/eldritchknight9 is better than your current build. Heck you could take 7 levels of spellsword and get the twilight enchantment on yourself and you don't have to worry about ASF anymore. That's a great idea. Now knowing it's going to be a frontliner, I'd suggest just finishing Spellsword for channel spell and the ASF elimination. Ftr2/Wiz4/SS10/EK4 might be what your aiming for. You'd only end up with CL 12, but with a BAB of 18 that's plenty of hard power attacking to be had (and Arcane Strike throwing on +6/+6d4 wouldn't exactly be the worst thing in the world). The funniest image I'm getting in my head, is channeling a Scorching Ray into your slam, quickening a True Strike, power attacking to full, and dumping some 6th level spell. Very Fatal Fury of you. :cool:
ArcWF 08-10-05, 07:10 PM	That's a great idea. Now knowing it's going to be a frontliner, I'd suggest just finishing Spellsword for channel spell and the ASF elimination. Ftr2/Wiz4/SS10/EK4 might be what your aiming for. You'd only end up with CL 12, but with a BAB of 18 that's plenty of hard power attacking to be had (and Arcane Strike throwing on +6/+6d4 wouldn't exactly be the worst thing in the world). The funniest image I'm getting in my head, is channeling a Scorching Ray into your slam, quickening a True Strike, power attacking to full, and dumping some 6th level spell. Very Fatal Fury of you. :cool: The problem is, I'm not building for level 20, or even for level 16. I'm looking forward to Level 9, at most. Remember that I have to play this character from 3 until then :) And Spellsword is not going to provide much ASF relief at level 3. Though I suppose it's only going to cost me one caster level at level 3 also. The reason I started to lean more toward wizard (and the Spontaneous Casting feat) is that I want to be of use to the party in many different situations. The other thing I want to be able to do is take a fair bit of damage. Well, I've got time to see how the wind blows. I don't have any hard choices to make, except what feat to take at 3rd level, until I hit 6th. Then I suppose I'll have to choose to focus more in fighting of wizzing.
DisposableHero_ 08-10-05, 07:45 PM	I keep hearing about Knight Phantom--where is it from? And either way, whatever happens after 9th level isn't such a big deal. My main concern is what happens before then. The knight phantom is in Five Nations, but it is also found in the excerpt from Five Nations (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4)
Zemyla 08-10-05, 08:41 PM	What can be done for the reflex save, if you're willing to spend a feat on it, is Insightful Reflexes (CA). It lets you use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Dex modifier for reflex saves.
Sieylianna 08-10-05, 10:45 PM	Is there really anything to be done about the Reflex save, besides taking 18 Con and 14 Strength instead of two 16's? Power Attack is worthwhile I think, to take advantage of True Strike, especially as I will be using a two-handed weapon. I do plan on being a front-line fighter, despite my many levels of wizard. At low levels, my Strength makes up for my slow BAB, and I'll have plenty of spell buffs. But you can only power attack for your BAB, whether you true strike or not. So picking it up a first level is a waste. I wouldn't bother with it until 6th or preferably use your Eldritch Knight bonus feat for it. As soimeone else pointed out, there is Insightful Reflexes, if your DM allows it. A negative dexterity is a very bad thing, I'd at least try to get it to 10. Have you looked at the warforged racial substitution levels? Ed
ArcWF 08-10-05, 11:49 PM	Warforged sub levels are for Art, Fighter, and Paladin. The Art ones are okay, but the others suck. I'll check out Insightful Reflexes. As for Power Attack, even at level 3, with only a +2 BAB, I can get 4 damage using a 2-hander. At level 3, that's not insignificant. Against a heavily (for level 3) foe, I'll be inconsistent in hitting them without True Strike. But True Strike without any PA would be overkill.