Arcane Thesis + Sudden metamagic = OMG !! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Thesis + Sudden metamagic = OMG !! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
White_Phoenix
08-20-06, 05:49 AM Has anyone seen the Arcane Thesis feat from PHB2 ?

It lowers a spell's spellslot with one level for every metamagic feat applied.
Since sudden metamagic feats from CAr don't increase the spell's level, it means that for every 'sudden x' feat you apply, the spell uses one spellslot lower !!!

This means that you can do the following for example:

1. Apply Arcane Thesis to the level 9 Meteor Swarm spell.
2. Apply the following metamagic feats

Energy substitution
Lord of the uttercold
Sudden empower
Sudden maximize
Sudden widen
Sudden extend
Sudden still
Sudden silent
Sudden quicken

3. Your level 9 energy substitutioned uttercold empowered maximized widened extended still silent quickened Meteor Swarm now uses a level 0 spellslot !
:OMG!

With the Incantarix PrC this means that the spell's level will drop by 2 for every sudden metamagic feat !! :eek:

This means that you can also apply metamagic feats for free that increase spellslots by 1 or 2 levels !
You can even use the sudden metamagic feats to compensate for the metamagic feats that increase spelllevel by 3 so the spell will use it's normal spellslot.

I leave it up to you guys to find out what the most ultimate spell is you can create with all this.
jstorrie
08-20-06, 05:52 AM The general consensus is that a) due to some quirk of the rules, there is no -1 spell level adjustment and b) no DM will ever, ever allow this (and it might get you punched). This topic was raised basically as soon as PHBII was released.
runestar
08-20-06, 06:57 AM Just when you thought a horribly broken combo couldn't get any worse...

This place lives up to its reputation indeed... :P
Chaotix42
08-20-06, 11:05 AM You only apply the Sudden feats when you cast the spell. If you were following White_Phoenix's line of thinking, when you cast the spell it'd be 0 level, but you can't prepare it that way. Would there be any use to a spell that is 0 level only when you cast it and apply all of the Sudden feats? Sorcerers, maybe?
X-Codes
08-20-06, 11:22 AM With the Incantarix PrC this means that the spell's level will drop by 2 for every sudden metamagic feat !! :eek:
Incantatrix reduces to a minimum of +1. It doesn't help you in this silly endavor.

There are generally 4 kinds of DM's. Heres each of their reactions to this:

1) This is a CORE ONLY game, get this "Sudden Metamagic" munchkinism outta my game room!

2) Rule 0, now this doesn't work.

3) Whatever, it's not like it actually does anything other than give you another worthless blasting spell.

4) Your character is going to die anyway, and this stupid combo actually quickens it's path to the grave.

Yeah, practically speaking it's just not happening. Taking all of your specialization and putting it on one spell is bad. Even if you can cast that spell 100 times a day, it's still just that one spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
White_Phoenix 08-20-06, 05:49 AM	Has anyone seen the Arcane Thesis feat from PHB2 ? It lowers a spell's spellslot with one level for every metamagic feat applied. Since sudden metamagic feats from CAr don't increase the spell's level, it means that for every 'sudden x' feat you apply, the spell uses one spellslot lower !!! This means that you can do the following for example: 1. Apply Arcane Thesis to the level 9 Meteor Swarm spell. 2. Apply the following metamagic feats Energy substitution Lord of the uttercold Sudden empower Sudden maximize Sudden widen Sudden extend Sudden still Sudden silent Sudden quicken 3. Your level 9 energy substitutioned uttercold empowered maximized widened extended still silent quickened Meteor Swarm now uses a level 0 spellslot ! :OMG! With the Incantarix PrC this means that the spell's level will drop by 2 for every sudden metamagic feat !! :eek: This means that you can also apply metamagic feats for free that increase spellslots by 1 or 2 levels ! You can even use the sudden metamagic feats to compensate for the metamagic feats that increase spelllevel by 3 so the spell will use it's normal spellslot. I leave it up to you guys to find out what the most ultimate spell is you can create with all this.
jstorrie 08-20-06, 05:52 AM	The general consensus is that a) due to some quirk of the rules, there is no -1 spell level adjustment and b) no DM will ever, ever allow this (and it might get you punched). This topic was raised basically as soon as PHBII was released.
runestar 08-20-06, 06:57 AM	Just when you thought a horribly broken combo couldn't get any worse... This place lives up to its reputation indeed... :P
Chaotix42 08-20-06, 11:05 AM	You only apply the Sudden feats when you cast the spell. If you were following White_Phoenix's line of thinking, when you cast the spell it'd be 0 level, but you can't prepare it that way. Would there be any use to a spell that is 0 level only when you cast it and apply all of the Sudden feats? Sorcerers, maybe?
X-Codes 08-20-06, 11:22 AM	With the Incantarix PrC this means that the spell's level will drop by 2 for every sudden metamagic feat !! :eek: Incantatrix reduces to a minimum of +1. It doesn't help you in this silly endavor. There are generally 4 kinds of DM's. Heres each of their reactions to this: 1) This is a CORE ONLY game, get this "Sudden Metamagic" munchkinism outta my game room! 2) Rule 0, now this doesn't work. 3) Whatever, it's not like it actually does anything other than give you another worthless blasting spell. 4) Your character is going to die anyway, and this stupid combo actually quickens it's path to the grave. Yeah, practically speaking it's just not happening. Taking all of your specialization and putting it on one spell is bad. Even if you can cast that spell 100 times a day, it's still just that one spell.