Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dirkformica 09-09-04, 08:32 AM	Wild Elf (Unapproachable East) with Otherwordly feat (Player’s Guide to Faerun) at 1st level (for Outsider Status and no LA): Stats= 32 Point Buy: Str: 8 Dex: 10 Con: 10 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 18 Rogue 1/ Sorcerer 5/ Shadow Thief of Amn (PGtF) 1/ Arcane Trickster (DMG) 10/ Archmage (DMG) 3 Requires: Persuasive Feat; Decipher Script 7, Disable Device 7, Escape Artist 7, Knowledge Arcana 15, Spellcraft 15, Skill Focus (Spellcraft,) Spell Focus Feats in 2 Schools of magic, Ability to Cast 7th level arcane spells ( knowledge of 5th level or higher from at least 5 schools,) +2d6 Sneak Attack, Any Non-Lawful Alignment; Able to Cast Mage Hand, Probably Practiced Spellcaster for +4 (up to HD) spell caster level. Key Character Moments: Needs to have Alter Self, Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph (maybe,) and must seek out and buy at least one scroll of Polymorph Any Object at 14 Character level (when Caster Level should be 12th.) At that point character needs to make a Caster Check of 16 in order to Permanently Polymorph Any Object (in this case himself) into a Kelvezu Tanar’ri from page 60ish of the Monster Manual II. Before gaining +8d6 sneak attack damage, 21 Str, 31 Dex, 16 Con, 17 Int, +15 Natural Armor, 60 ft Fly (Good,) and Poison from permanently becoming a Kelvezu, the character would need to use Alter Self for creatures with good Natural Armor, and probably repeated Polymorph for forms like the 7 hit dice Babau for NA+9, str 20, dex 12, con 20, +8 hide, listen, move silently, search, +2d6 sneak-attack or other interesting Outsider forms. The character might also want to take the Disguise skills or get a magical item to possible mask his appearance if that might be a problem since the Kelvezu description specifically mentions that it “can be mistaken for a human if it uses a touch of disguise to hide its rosy red skin.” With a focus on Rays or Touch attacks with Blink, Greater Blink, Invisibility, Improved Invisibility and any other method for acquiring good sneak attack chances this character should do pretty well against those creatures who are vulnerable. And against those who aren’t, you’ve still got 1st – 9th level spells, and 20th level Sorcerer casting. Sure Sorc isn’t as optimal as Wizard, but since the major advancement is becoming a Kelvezu it would be tough to sacrifice all that intelligence (since their base would be 17 Int at 14th Character level, this would mean for some low DC’s, fewer bonus spells, etc…) So any opinions, comments, clarifications, etc…? Thanks in advance.
carnivore 09-09-04, 09:05 AM	why not star elf, +2 CHA ,-2 CON
Piraatje 09-09-04, 09:22 AM	- well, PaO can be dispelled (and probably will be at some point). - everytime you walk into an antimagic zone, you're a sitting duck with close to no hitpoints, no ac, etc. - I doubt you gain the sneak attack damage and int modifier from using Polymorph ;) - You dont qualify for Arcane Trickster at level 7. - wild elf is completely wasted on this character. you dont need physical stats if you go the polymorph route. Also, why dont 'just' use Shapechange, play a wizard, dump cha, and get SOME con just in case?
Borin 09-09-04, 10:42 AM	- I doubt you gain the sneak attack damage and int modifier from using Polymorph ;) You do get the sneak attack, although only in melee. It's an Ex Special Attack. And PAO gives you the int of the creature.
Fwib 09-09-04, 11:04 AM	Wild Elf (Unapproachable East) with Otherwordly feat (Player’s Guide to Faerun).... I don't believe that the Wild Elf qualifies for Otherworldly - I think you need to be Star Elf or one of those underdark races
Blade2718 09-09-04, 02:56 PM	Also, note that you do not qualify for Arcane Trickster as Sorcerer 5. Drop a level of Archmage and add one Sorcerer, you'll be fine. Star Elves, Sun Elves, Deep Imaskari, and any planetouched race qualifies for Otherworldly.
dirkformica 09-09-04, 05:25 PM	You do get the sneak attack, although only in melee. It's an Ex Special Attack. And PAO gives you the int of the creature. Well, that sneak attack only in melee pretty much scuttles the whole concept. The terrible physical stats were based on staying OUT of melee combat from the get-go and eventually combining the Arcane Trickster's Impromptu Sneak Attack with something like Scorching Ray which at 20th level would be doing, what, 4d6 + 15d6 x3. Although, now that I look at it, that's really not all THAT great. Though I suppose it being a 2nd level spell it could be Empowered and Maximized, but still, at about 225ish a shot, and only twice a day, that's still not the world beater I had in my head. Oh, and I knew it could be dispelled, but I was banking on the fact that for awhile the caster level of the scroll would have been higher than the character level of the player so it would be more difficult for the kinds of enemies he'd be facing to dispel it. Later, I was thinking that 3,000 gold pieces probably wouldn't be all that expensive from time to time. And eventually he'd be able to cast the spell on himself if need be. But really, the whole focus was on Ranged spells and the minimum of like 11d6 sneak attack damage, as well as the whole Impromptu Sneak Attack combined with the somewhat easily attained physical stat boosts. And since a Sorc gets quite a few casts per day, the Polymorph/Draconic Polymorphs would be the fall back if he was dispelled, or during the levels before his Kelevzu form was permanent. Oh well. I guess I could still make a Tiefling or another Elf and either employ Use Magical Device, or have a Wizard buddy cast Polymorph Any Object at the appropriate levels and play with a non-caster. That +8d6 sneak attack damage, 21 Str, 31 Dex, 16 Con, 17 Int, +15 Natural Armor, 60 ft Fly (Good,) and infinite Poison at 12th level just seems so damned appealing. Even if it can be dispelled. Thanks for your replies and insights.
dirkformica 09-09-04, 06:10 PM	Hmmm... the Spellsword's (Complete Warrior) 4th level ability to Channel spells into his weapon might work with a build like this. But then there are so many lost caster levels trying to get all the weapon and armor requirements as well as the minimum of 2 lost due to the Spellsword's progression. Still, an Impromptu Sneak Attack with a decently enchanted greatsword striking with Scorching Ray would be interesting with all that extra sneak damage. Practiced Spell Caster would help with the Caster Level, but not the spell progression which would be sorely hurt with any Sorcerer base. I wonder if there are other ways to channel spells through a weapon? And a Spellblade enchantment from Player's Guide to Faerun would help against Dispel checks during the mid levels. Might have to get it upgraded or go the dual wield route and get one with Dispel Magic and one with Dispel Magic, Greater at higher levels.
RadicalTaoist 09-09-04, 06:11 PM	Well, that sneak attack only in melee pretty much scuttles the whole concept. The terrible physical stats were based on staying OUT of melee combat from the get-go and eventually combining the Arcane Trickster's Impromptu Sneak Attack with something like Scorching Ray which at 20th level would be doing, what, 4d6 + 15d6 x3. Although, now that I look at it, that's really not all THAT great. Though I suppose it being a 2nd level spell it could be Empowered and Maximized, but still, at about 225ish a shot, and only twice a day, that's still not the world beater I had in my head. Oh, and I knew it could be dispelled, but I was banking on the fact that for awhile the caster level of the scroll would have been higher than the character level of the player so it would be more difficult for the kinds of enemies he'd be facing to dispel it. Later, I was thinking that 3,000 gold pieces probably wouldn't be all that expensive from time to time. And eventually he'd be able to cast the spell on himself if need be. But really, the whole focus was on Ranged spells and the minimum of like 11d6 sneak attack damage, as well as the whole Impromptu Sneak Attack combined with the somewhat easily attained physical stat boosts. And since a Sorc gets quite a few casts per day, the Polymorph/Draconic Polymorphs would be the fall back if he was dispelled, or during the levels before his Kelevzu form was permanent. Oh well. I guess I could still make a Tiefling or another Elf and either employ Use Magical Device, or have a Wizard buddy cast Polymorph Any Object at the appropriate levels and play with a non-caster. That +8d6 sneak attack damage, 21 Str, 31 Dex, 16 Con, 17 Int, +15 Natural Armor, 60 ft Fly (Good,) and infinite Poison at 12th level just seems so damned appealing. Even if it can be dispelled. Thanks for your replies and insights. I once had a Fey'ri Rogue designed to take as much advantage of UMD as he could, he played like a pseudocaster in many regards. Try your idea with this race, they can fly and get lotsa neat Spell Like Abilities. Or better: go psionic, and take the Elocater PrC for their ability to flank at any angle after 4th level.