Archer Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
stuporhero93
11-08-06, 09:07 PM OK I have heard in a few threads that a cleric with war and elf domains + zen archery = uber archer

Any comments/ideas?

The books I have right now are:
the cores
complete arcane
complete warrior
complete adventurer
spell compondium
all of the class supplements (sword and fist song and silence etc.
draconimicon
arms and equipment guide
tome of 9 swords
LogicNinja
11-08-06, 09:15 PM It's very simple, really.

1: Point Blank Shot (Elf), Weapon Focus(longbow) (War), Precise Shot
3: Rapid Shot or Zen Archery, depending on WIS vs. DEX
6: Zen Archery or Rapid Shot
9: Quicken Spell
And proceed basically however you want from there.

Cast Divine Favor (Quickened Divine Favor and Divine Power, at higher levels) to keep your AB/damage up.
stuporhero93
11-08-06, 09:17 PM OK so if you dont mind could yo put that in a build format please if you dont feel like it I'll just work with what I got.

Oh and Im going for high Wis.
Cael
11-08-06, 09:21 PM Most of the archer builds rely on Persistent Spell. Get to Divine Power and Persist it.

Domains are Elf and Planning

Feats:
1st: Point Blank Shot (D), Extend Spell (D), Precise Shot
3rd: Rapid Shot
6th: Persistent Spell
9th: DM Persist
12th: Zen Archery
15th: blank
18th: blank

That is all there is, really.
LogicNinja
11-08-06, 09:24 PM Uh, the build is Cleric X. Just take Cleric straight through to 20th.

Those are the feats at different levels, above.
Stat priority should be WIS, DEX, STR, CON, in that order.

I'm definitely not doing your gear for you, but you'll need a good bow, of course. A chain shirt if your DEX is decent, breastplate otherwise. Wear a buckler; you can do that and still use a bow. Get a Bead of Karma (from the Strand of Prayer Beads) as soon as you can. Periapts of Wisdom are your first priority.

Cleric archers are pretty simple.

Edit: or Persistent Spell cheese. But you shouldn't do that.
stuporhero93
11-08-06, 09:26 PM ok just one question.

what book is persist divine metamagic thing (call me a noob and die a horrible death)
Phoenix00
11-08-06, 09:30 PM Complete Divine.

It allows you to sacrifice turn attempts to pay for metamagic adjustment levels.
LogicNinja
11-08-06, 09:30 PM Persistent Spell is a metamagic feat from the complete arcane.

Divine Metamagic, which you pick to apply to a particular metamagic feat, is in the Complete Divine.
Cael
11-08-06, 09:39 PM Uh, the build is Cleric X. Just take Cleric straight through to 20th.

Those are the feats at different levels, above.
Stat priority should be WIS, DEX, STR, CON, in that order.

I'm definitely not doing your gear for you, but you'll need a good bow, of course. A chain shirt if your DEX is decent, breastplate otherwise. Wear a buckler; you can do that and still use a bow. Get a Bead of Karma (from the Strand of Prayer Beads) as soon as you can. Periapts of Wisdom are your first priority.

Cleric archers are pretty simple.

Edit: or Persistent Spell cheese. But you shouldn't do that.
Why Dex? Zen Archery tops that.

My pick would be Wis, Cha, Con, Str if you want Persistent cheese. Wis, Con, Str if not Persistent cheese.

Also worthy of mention is the Holy Word cleaner.
Cael
11-08-06, 09:39 PM ok just one question.

what book is persist divine metamagic thing (call me a noob and die a horrible death)
You are tempting me... n0... :D Just joking.
stuporhero93
11-08-06, 09:57 PM ok Cael what i said about death I meant and In case you blind fools (respectively) haven't noticed COMPLETE DIVINE ISN'T ON THE LIST OF BOOKS I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rant:
LogicNinja
11-08-06, 10:08 PM It's easy to miss since you have the other Completes.

My build doesn't require the Complete Divine. Take it and rejoice.
Cael
11-08-06, 10:26 PM ok Cael what i said about death I meant and In case you blind fools (respectively) haven't noticed COMPLETE DIVINE ISN'T ON THE LIST OF BOOKS I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rant:
*shakes the little hamster off his ankle* I think it has been reprinted in a couple of other books, to be fair.
Slyver
11-08-06, 10:55 PM You don't have to be an elf to take the elf domain... Not even thematically.

Race: Human

Build: Cleric 20

Domains: Planning, Elf

Feats:

1) Extend Spell, Point blank shot, Precise shot, Persistent spell
3) Zen Archery
6) DMM Persist
9) Rapid shot
12) Xtra turning (Assuming no nightsticks, otherwise whatever you want)
15) see 12
18) see 15

Slyver
LogicNinja
11-08-06, 11:01 PM ...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically?
Kylian
11-08-06, 11:03 PM The above build does not grant you Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow), since you are neither an elf nor a cleric with the War domain from a god with a longbow as a favored weapon.
Vikjunk
11-08-06, 11:26 PM ...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically?
Well if you're a Cleric devoted to an alignment not a god you can choose any domain you want as long as it doesn't not an opposite alignment domain. But you would have one screwed up human if his spiritual alignment is that close to elves.

With non god Clerics you can get some screwed up characters. Like a how about a Lawful Good Cleric of Death and Destruction?

So are we going to start calling Slyver's build the Divine Poser?
Blade2718
11-09-06, 12:40 AM *shakes the little hamster off his ankle* I think it has been reprinted in a couple of other books, to be fair.Persistant Spell, yes. Divine Metamagic, no.

You can also pick any PrCs that advance spellcasting. I like Ruathar (Hide and Spot as class skills with no cumbersome pre-reqs, yes please) and Divine Disciple (extra domain at 4th). Contemplative is also good, but you don't have the book.

Clerics of the Silver Flame (an Eberron deity) have longbow as a favored weapon.
nittanytbone
11-09-06, 07:41 AM The best non-elf options are to (A) take levels in Human Paragon with the longbow as your martial weapon proficiency or (B) take levels in Ruathor.

The extra human feat balances out the Elf domain loss (although the Elf domain has some nice spells for archers like True Strike), and you can get into both of the above PrCs pretty easily to get your longbow proficiency.

Also, dex needs to be at least 13 to qualify for Rapid Shot, which is essential for all serious archers.
ShubNiggurath
11-09-06, 08:53 AM Where is the elf domain? And the planning one?

....since we are talking about that, is there a list of domains with the source somewhere?
TheHumanDynamo
11-09-06, 09:33 AM Where is the elf domain? And the planning one?

....since we are talking about that, is there a list of domains with the source somewhere?
Most are from Spell Compendium, in the back. I think that was the last comprehensive list of non-PHB domains.
ChristopherGroves
11-09-06, 10:32 AM Divine Metamagic (Quicken) isn't quite as cheddar as (Persistent) but can achieve many of the same results.
Slyver
11-09-06, 10:38 AM ...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically?
Well, lets see.

I was introduced to the elven lifestyle at a very young age. It was peaceful, calm, enlightening. Always fascinated by the gods and their dealings with the material plane, coupled with the influence elven society had on me, I decided to become a cleric of Corellon Larethian.

Or,

I am a cleric of whatever pantheon of my world has an elven god.

Or,

I am a non-denominational cleric who is fascinated with elves and archery.

That took me ~1 minute to come up with 3 different perfectly valid themes.

The above build does not grant you Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow), since you are neither an elf nor a cleric with the War domain from a god with a longbow as a favored weapon.

Yes, that does pose a problem. While there several solutions, the easiest is to just drop the elven domain (as the planning is imo superior) and pick up war. There were extra feats anyways. This just moves them all down one slot.

Personally though, I would probably take human paragon instead and keep elf and planning. I am not the "thou shalt not lose caster levels" most of the people on this board are. Losing one caster level for +2 wisdom, +1 to hit (zen archery) +1 spot, listen (I would take ruathar also), more skill points, better skill list, more bonus spells, higher spell DCs, bonus feat, free weapon proficiency are all a valid trade for one caster level. I also might take cloistered cleric over regular cleric for a DMM persist archer (I'd have to play with it to be sure).

Well if you're a Cleric devoted to an alignment not a god you can choose any domain you want as long as it doesn't not an opposite alignment domain. But you would have one screwed up human if his spiritual alignment is that close to elves.

With non god Clerics you can get some screwed up characters. Like a how about a Lawful Good Cleric of Death and Destruction?

So are we going to start calling Slyver's build the Divine Poser?

How do you all get any roleplaying done in such little boxes?

Slyver
PhaedrusXY
11-09-06, 10:55 AM ...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically?Don't all elven fanboi roleplayers automatically qualify? I think anyone who has ever used or designed an alternate elven "subrace" qualifies, as well. Or used an elven "courtblade".

DEATH TO ALL ELVES! :rant:
Vikjunk
11-09-06, 12:27 PM Slyver,

You might want to recheck the rules on Clerics. A god that is associated to a race can have worships of any race but they have to have clerics of the race they are associated to. So any god of the elven pantheon is out. You might be able to have a non-elf cleric of Eilistraee since she is technically associated to any race that wants to live in peace on the surface world, but mainly good aligned drow so it would be up to the DM okay. Also she is only campaign specific.

Adamantly it might be a good role playing experience if done right with a human non god cleric that has Elf Domain. If you play it off as a human that is fascinated by elven culture and feels that humans have a lot to learn from elves but still respects his own race. But the whole Divine Poser comment was how most of the elf fanboys would play the character, that humans are disgusting and elves are some much more superior. But then again it could be fun to go over the top and make the character so much a poser that the character gets on the nerves of every elf and human in sight.
Slyver
11-09-06, 01:15 PM Slyver,

You might want to recheck the rules on Clerics. A god that is associated to a race can have worships of any race but they have to have clerics of the race they are associated to.

Blech. There it is, in black and white. Not sure how I missed that over the course of 6-7? years of 3.0+.

That may very well be one of the stupidest rules I have ever seen. What if I want to play a halfling cleric of an elven god? It's a god damned roleplaying game. It is the exceptions to the standard choices that make the best literature for god's sake. I can come up with 10 valid DnD reasons why an elven God would choose a halfling cleric. That's just one of those rules that doesn't make any sense in a game designed for roleplaying. Reminiscent of pre 3.0 type rules. A de-evolution of the game. Oh well.

So any god of the elven pantheon is out.

This doesn't exclude an elven god that is part of a not strictly elven pantheon.

But the whole Divine Poser comment was how most of the elf fanboys would play the character, that humans are disgusting and elves are some much more superior.

My comment wasn't because of this comment, but rather the one before it: But you would have one screwed up human if his spiritual alignment is that close to elves.
This makes no sense to me. If you want to play a human with elven influence (generally considered to be a calmer, more enlightened life outlook (I am not making any statement as to the veracity of this)) how is that screwed up?

The world is filled with much variety with regards to "spiritual beliefs" or philosophies. We most certainly do not all have the same spiritual outlook. Although, generally, those who do not share our individual spiritual outlook are considered "screwed up". Maybe that was your point... Go ____(insert your god here)!

Slyver
Surreal
11-09-06, 02:29 PM Don't all elven fanboi roleplayers automatically qualify? I think anyone who has ever used or designed an alternate elven "subrace" qualifies, as well. Or used an elven "courtblade".

DEATH TO ALL ELVES! :rant:

I just learned about "otherkin" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin) the other day (from Something Positive (http://www.somethingpositive.net/index.html))
stuporhero93
11-09-06, 03:03 PM OK so can anyone give me a description of divine metamagic and persist????????????????????? the dm is going to let me take elf domain because "elves are basically cool and anyone who wants to worship them should be able to" according to him.

Oh and lets not turn this into a elves suck/rock thread ok? if you want one make on yourself
LogicNinja
11-09-06, 03:08 PM Keep in mind that as a human cleric, you need to take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow).

Persistent Spell can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell ).

Divine Metamagic makes you pick a metamagic feat you have (Persistent Spell, in this case) and lets you apply it spontaneously, without increasing a spell's casting time, by sacrificing Turn Undead uses for the day. The number of uses sacrificed = 1 + [spell level increase of metamagic feat], which is 1 + 6 = 7 for Persistent Spell.

I still don't recommend this route for a real game.
Bounces
11-09-06, 03:39 PM I still don't recommend this route for a real game.

I have to concur...persistent spell and divine metamagic are fine by themselves but when combined create something game breaking... There are spells out there that are simply not meant to last 24 hours...Case in point divine power...granted...a fourth level cleric spell means that it would cost 11 turn attempts to persist it...but the thing is that SHOULDN'T last all day...wake up in the morning, cast your spells, burn your turn attempts...and then tell the fighter to take the day off cause you can handle it. No, it shouldn't work like that.

Just...so...wrong

EDIT: End Rant...

Now then...if you and your DM are still interested in persisting (hehe...punny) in this terrible path...I would recommend in an effort to balance the game make it so that Divine metamagic cannot be used to pay for caster level increase of spells that you would not be able to cast without it...(eg no Persitent Divine metamagic of divine power because it would be a 10th level spell...which by definition you cannot cast).

That is the only way I have seen to make it remotely resembling something balanced.
LogicNinja
11-09-06, 03:52 PM I have to concur...persistent spell and divine metamagic are fine by themselves but when combined create something game breaking... There are spells out there that are simply not meant to last 24 hours...Case in point divine power...granted...a fourth level cleric spell means that it would cost 11 turn attempts to persist it...

Spell level has nothing to do with turn attempt costs for Divine Metamagic. The cost to persist any spell is 7 attempts--1 for Divine Metamagic, +6 for Persistent Spell's +6-spell-level adjustment. The level of the spell you're casting isn't involved.
Cael
11-09-06, 04:02 PM I have to concur...persistent spell and divine metamagic are fine by themselves but when combined create something game breaking... There are spells out there that are simply not meant to last 24 hours...Case in point divine power...granted...a fourth level cleric spell means that it would cost 11 turn attempts to persist it...but the thing is that SHOULDN'T last all day...wake up in the morning, cast your spells, burn your turn attempts...and then tell the fighter to take the day off cause you can handle it. No, it shouldn't work like that.

Just...so...wrong

EDIT: End Rant...

Now then...if you and your DM are still interested in persisting (hehe...punny) in this terrible path...I would recommend in an effort to balance the game make it so that Divine metamagic cannot be used to pay for caster level increase of spells that you would not be able to cast without it...(eg no Persitent Divine metamagic of divine power because it would be a 10th level spell...which by definition you cannot cast).

That is the only way I have seen to make it remotely resembling something balanced.
I do not see anything wrong with it. If you are going to invest half your pre level 20 feats to get a cool effect, you are welcome to it. It is not DM and Persistent that should not be together. It is Nightsticks and DM Persistent that should not be together. Given that he did not list Libris Mortis, his DM's game is safe from DM Persistent abuse.
LogicNinja
11-09-06, 04:07 PM With a tolerable CHA, a minor cloak of charisma, and a couple of Extra Turning feats, you can have 3+4 (CHA) + 8 (two Extra Turning feats) = 15 turn attempts, enough to fuel a Divine Persistent Divine Power and Righteous Might, say.
I'd say that's probably too good. The fighter or barbarian in his group would likely agree.
nittanytbone
11-10-06, 09:08 AM With a tolerable CHA, a minor cloak of charisma, and a couple of Extra Turning feats, you can have 3+4 (CHA) + 8 (two Extra Turning feats) = 15 turn attempts, enough to fuel a Divine Persistent Divine Power and Righteous Might, say.
I'd say that's probably too good. The fighter or barbarian in his group would likely agree.

Or just cast Eagle's Glory.

14 cha + 3 turn attempts for being a cleric + 2 freebies from a temporary charisma boost = 7 turn attempts

Now, consider the cleric is spending three feats, all of his turn attempts, and a level 2 spell every day to get this power, and it can be (easily) dispelled.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stuporhero93 11-08-06, 09:07 PM	OK I have heard in a few threads that a cleric with war and elf domains + zen archery = uber archer Any comments/ideas? The books I have right now are: the cores complete arcane complete warrior complete adventurer spell compondium all of the class supplements (sword and fist song and silence etc. draconimicon arms and equipment guide tome of 9 swords
LogicNinja 11-08-06, 09:15 PM	It's very simple, really. 1: Point Blank Shot (Elf), Weapon Focus(longbow) (War), Precise Shot 3: Rapid Shot or Zen Archery, depending on WIS vs. DEX 6: Zen Archery or Rapid Shot 9: Quicken Spell And proceed basically however you want from there. Cast Divine Favor (Quickened Divine Favor and Divine Power, at higher levels) to keep your AB/damage up.
stuporhero93 11-08-06, 09:17 PM	OK so if you dont mind could yo put that in a build format please if you dont feel like it I'll just work with what I got. Oh and Im going for high Wis.
Cael 11-08-06, 09:21 PM	Most of the archer builds rely on Persistent Spell. Get to Divine Power and Persist it. Domains are Elf and Planning Feats: 1st: Point Blank Shot (D), Extend Spell (D), Precise Shot 3rd: Rapid Shot 6th: Persistent Spell 9th: DM Persist 12th: Zen Archery 15th: blank 18th: blank That is all there is, really.
LogicNinja 11-08-06, 09:24 PM	Uh, the build is Cleric X. Just take Cleric straight through to 20th. Those are the feats at different levels, above. Stat priority should be WIS, DEX, STR, CON, in that order. I'm definitely not doing your gear for you, but you'll need a good bow, of course. A chain shirt if your DEX is decent, breastplate otherwise. Wear a buckler; you can do that and still use a bow. Get a Bead of Karma (from the Strand of Prayer Beads) as soon as you can. Periapts of Wisdom are your first priority. Cleric archers are pretty simple. Edit: or Persistent Spell cheese. But you shouldn't do that.
stuporhero93 11-08-06, 09:26 PM	ok just one question. what book is persist divine metamagic thing (call me a noob and die a horrible death)
Phoenix00 11-08-06, 09:30 PM	Complete Divine. It allows you to sacrifice turn attempts to pay for metamagic adjustment levels.
LogicNinja 11-08-06, 09:30 PM	Persistent Spell is a metamagic feat from the complete arcane. Divine Metamagic, which you pick to apply to a particular metamagic feat, is in the Complete Divine.
Cael 11-08-06, 09:39 PM	Uh, the build is Cleric X. Just take Cleric straight through to 20th. Those are the feats at different levels, above. Stat priority should be WIS, DEX, STR, CON, in that order. I'm definitely not doing your gear for you, but you'll need a good bow, of course. A chain shirt if your DEX is decent, breastplate otherwise. Wear a buckler; you can do that and still use a bow. Get a Bead of Karma (from the Strand of Prayer Beads) as soon as you can. Periapts of Wisdom are your first priority. Cleric archers are pretty simple. Edit: or Persistent Spell cheese. But you shouldn't do that. Why Dex? Zen Archery tops that. My pick would be Wis, Cha, Con, Str if you want Persistent cheese. Wis, Con, Str if not Persistent cheese. Also worthy of mention is the Holy Word cleaner.
Cael 11-08-06, 09:39 PM	ok just one question. what book is persist divine metamagic thing (call me a noob and die a horrible death) You are tempting me... n0... :D Just joking.
stuporhero93 11-08-06, 09:57 PM	ok Cael what i said about death I meant and In case you blind fools (respectively) haven't noticed COMPLETE DIVINE ISN'T ON THE LIST OF BOOKS I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rant:
LogicNinja 11-08-06, 10:08 PM	It's easy to miss since you have the other Completes. My build doesn't require the Complete Divine. Take it and rejoice.
Cael 11-08-06, 10:26 PM	ok Cael what i said about death I meant and In case you blind fools (respectively) haven't noticed COMPLETE DIVINE ISN'T ON THE LIST OF BOOKS I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rant: shakes the little hamster off his ankle I think it has been reprinted in a couple of other books, to be fair.
Slyver 11-08-06, 10:55 PM	You don't have to be an elf to take the elf domain... Not even thematically. Race: Human Build: Cleric 20 Domains: Planning, Elf Feats: 1) Extend Spell, Point blank shot, Precise shot, Persistent spell 3) Zen Archery 6) DMM Persist 9) Rapid shot 12) Xtra turning (Assuming no nightsticks, otherwise whatever you want) 15) see 12 18) see 15 Slyver
LogicNinja 11-08-06, 11:01 PM	...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically?
Kylian 11-08-06, 11:03 PM	The above build does not grant you Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow), since you are neither an elf nor a cleric with the War domain from a god with a longbow as a favored weapon.
Vikjunk 11-08-06, 11:26 PM	...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically? Well if you're a Cleric devoted to an alignment not a god you can choose any domain you want as long as it doesn't not an opposite alignment domain. But you would have one screwed up human if his spiritual alignment is that close to elves. With non god Clerics you can get some screwed up characters. Like a how about a Lawful Good Cleric of Death and Destruction? So are we going to start calling Slyver's build the Divine Poser?
Blade2718 11-09-06, 12:40 AM	shakes the little hamster off his ankle I think it has been reprinted in a couple of other books, to be fair.Persistant Spell, yes. Divine Metamagic, no. You can also pick any PrCs that advance spellcasting. I like Ruathar (Hide and Spot as class skills with no cumbersome pre-reqs, yes please) and Divine Disciple (extra domain at 4th). Contemplative is also good, but you don't have the book. Clerics of the Silver Flame (an Eberron deity) have longbow as a favored weapon.
nittanytbone 11-09-06, 07:41 AM	The best non-elf options are to (A) take levels in Human Paragon with the longbow as your martial weapon proficiency or (B) take levels in Ruathor. The extra human feat balances out the Elf domain loss (although the Elf domain has some nice spells for archers like True Strike), and you can get into both of the above PrCs pretty easily to get your longbow proficiency. Also, dex needs to be at least 13 to qualify for Rapid Shot, which is essential for all serious archers.
ShubNiggurath 11-09-06, 08:53 AM	Where is the elf domain? And the planning one? ....since we are talking about that, is there a list of domains with the source somewhere?
TheHumanDynamo 11-09-06, 09:33 AM	Where is the elf domain? And the planning one? ....since we are talking about that, is there a list of domains with the source somewhere? Most are from Spell Compendium, in the back. I think that was the last comprehensive list of non-PHB domains.
ChristopherGroves 11-09-06, 10:32 AM	Divine Metamagic (Quicken) isn't quite as cheddar as (Persistent) but can achieve many of the same results.
Slyver 11-09-06, 10:38 AM	...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically? Well, lets see. I was introduced to the elven lifestyle at a very young age. It was peaceful, calm, enlightening. Always fascinated by the gods and their dealings with the material plane, coupled with the influence elven society had on me, I decided to become a cleric of Corellon Larethian. Or, I am a cleric of whatever pantheon of my world has an elven god. Or, I am a non-denominational cleric who is fascinated with elves and archery. That took me ~1 minute to come up with 3 different perfectly valid themes. The above build does not grant you Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow), since you are neither an elf nor a cleric with the War domain from a god with a longbow as a favored weapon. Yes, that does pose a problem. While there several solutions, the easiest is to just drop the elven domain (as the planning is imo superior) and pick up war. There were extra feats anyways. This just moves them all down one slot. Personally though, I would probably take human paragon instead and keep elf and planning. I am not the "thou shalt not lose caster levels" most of the people on this board are. Losing one caster level for +2 wisdom, +1 to hit (zen archery) +1 spot, listen (I would take ruathar also), more skill points, better skill list, more bonus spells, higher spell DCs, bonus feat, free weapon proficiency are all a valid trade for one caster level. I also might take cloistered cleric over regular cleric for a DMM persist archer (I'd have to play with it to be sure). Well if you're a Cleric devoted to an alignment not a god you can choose any domain you want as long as it doesn't not an opposite alignment domain. But you would have one screwed up human if his spiritual alignment is that close to elves. With non god Clerics you can get some screwed up characters. Like a how about a Lawful Good Cleric of Death and Destruction? So are we going to start calling Slyver's build the Divine Poser? How do you all get any roleplaying done in such little boxes? Slyver
PhaedrusXY 11-09-06, 10:55 AM	...how do you get the Elf domain without being an elf, thematically?Don't all elven fanboi roleplayers automatically qualify? I think anyone who has ever used or designed an alternate elven "subrace" qualifies, as well. Or used an elven "courtblade". DEATH TO ALL ELVES! :rant:
Vikjunk 11-09-06, 12:27 PM	Slyver, You might want to recheck the rules on Clerics. A god that is associated to a race can have worships of any race but they have to have clerics of the race they are associated to. So any god of the elven pantheon is out. You might be able to have a non-elf cleric of Eilistraee since she is technically associated to any race that wants to live in peace on the surface world, but mainly good aligned drow so it would be up to the DM okay. Also she is only campaign specific. Adamantly it might be a good role playing experience if done right with a human non god cleric that has Elf Domain. If you play it off as a human that is fascinated by elven culture and feels that humans have a lot to learn from elves but still respects his own race. But the whole Divine Poser comment was how most of the elf fanboys would play the character, that humans are disgusting and elves are some much more superior. But then again it could be fun to go over the top and make the character so much a poser that the character gets on the nerves of every elf and human in sight.
Slyver 11-09-06, 01:15 PM	Slyver, You might want to recheck the rules on Clerics. A god that is associated to a race can have worships of any race but they have to have clerics of the race they are associated to. Blech. There it is, in black and white. Not sure how I missed that over the course of 6-7? years of 3.0+. That may very well be one of the stupidest rules I have ever seen. What if I want to play a halfling cleric of an elven god? It's a god damned roleplaying game. It is the exceptions to the standard choices that make the best literature for god's sake. I can come up with 10 valid DnD reasons why an elven God would choose a halfling cleric. That's just one of those rules that doesn't make any sense in a game designed for roleplaying. Reminiscent of pre 3.0 type rules. A de-evolution of the game. Oh well. So any god of the elven pantheon is out. This doesn't exclude an elven god that is part of a not strictly elven pantheon. But the whole Divine Poser comment was how most of the elf fanboys would play the character, that humans are disgusting and elves are some much more superior. My comment wasn't because of this comment, but rather the one before it: But you would have one screwed up human if his spiritual alignment is that close to elves. This makes no sense to me. If you want to play a human with elven influence (generally considered to be a calmer, more enlightened life outlook (I am not making any statement as to the veracity of this)) how is that screwed up? The world is filled with much variety with regards to "spiritual beliefs" or philosophies. We most certainly do not all have the same spiritual outlook. Although, generally, those who do not share our individual spiritual outlook are considered "screwed up". Maybe that was your point... Go ____(insert your god here)! Slyver
Surreal 11-09-06, 02:29 PM	Don't all elven fanboi roleplayers automatically qualify? I think anyone who has ever used or designed an alternate elven "subrace" qualifies, as well. Or used an elven "courtblade". DEATH TO ALL ELVES! :rant: I just learned about "otherkin" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin) the other day (from Something Positive (http://www.somethingpositive.net/index.html))
stuporhero93 11-09-06, 03:03 PM	OK so can anyone give me a description of divine metamagic and persist????????????????????? the dm is going to let me take elf domain because "elves are basically cool and anyone who wants to worship them should be able to" according to him. Oh and lets not turn this into a elves suck/rock thread ok? if you want one make on yourself
LogicNinja 11-09-06, 03:08 PM	Keep in mind that as a human cleric, you need to take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow). Persistent Spell can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell ). Divine Metamagic makes you pick a metamagic feat you have (Persistent Spell, in this case) and lets you apply it spontaneously, without increasing a spell's casting time, by sacrificing Turn Undead uses for the day. The number of uses sacrificed = 1 + [spell level increase of metamagic feat], which is 1 + 6 = 7 for Persistent Spell. I still don't recommend this route for a real game.
Bounces 11-09-06, 03:39 PM	I still don't recommend this route for a real game. I have to concur...persistent spell and divine metamagic are fine by themselves but when combined create something game breaking... There are spells out there that are simply not meant to last 24 hours...Case in point divine power...granted...a fourth level cleric spell means that it would cost 11 turn attempts to persist it...but the thing is that SHOULDN'T last all day...wake up in the morning, cast your spells, burn your turn attempts...and then tell the fighter to take the day off cause you can handle it. No, it shouldn't work like that. Just...so...wrong EDIT: End Rant... Now then...if you and your DM are still interested in persisting (hehe...punny) in this terrible path...I would recommend in an effort to balance the game make it so that Divine metamagic cannot be used to pay for caster level increase of spells that you would not be able to cast without it...(eg no Persitent Divine metamagic of divine power because it would be a 10th level spell...which by definition you cannot cast). That is the only way I have seen to make it remotely resembling something balanced.
LogicNinja 11-09-06, 03:52 PM	I have to concur...persistent spell and divine metamagic are fine by themselves but when combined create something game breaking... There are spells out there that are simply not meant to last 24 hours...Case in point divine power...granted...a fourth level cleric spell means that it would cost 11 turn attempts to persist it... Spell level has nothing to do with turn attempt costs for Divine Metamagic. The cost to persist any spell is 7 attempts--1 for Divine Metamagic, +6 for Persistent Spell's +6-spell-level adjustment. The level of the spell you're casting isn't involved.
Cael 11-09-06, 04:02 PM	I have to concur...persistent spell and divine metamagic are fine by themselves but when combined create something game breaking... There are spells out there that are simply not meant to last 24 hours...Case in point divine power...granted...a fourth level cleric spell means that it would cost 11 turn attempts to persist it...but the thing is that SHOULDN'T last all day...wake up in the morning, cast your spells, burn your turn attempts...and then tell the fighter to take the day off cause you can handle it. No, it shouldn't work like that. Just...so...wrong EDIT: End Rant... Now then...if you and your DM are still interested in persisting (hehe...punny) in this terrible path...I would recommend in an effort to balance the game make it so that Divine metamagic cannot be used to pay for caster level increase of spells that you would not be able to cast without it...(eg no Persitent Divine metamagic of divine power because it would be a 10th level spell...which by definition you cannot cast). That is the only way I have seen to make it remotely resembling something balanced. I do not see anything wrong with it. If you are going to invest half your pre level 20 feats to get a cool effect, you are welcome to it. It is not DM and Persistent that should not be together. It is Nightsticks and DM Persistent that should not be together. Given that he did not list Libris Mortis, his DM's game is safe from DM Persistent abuse.
LogicNinja 11-09-06, 04:07 PM	With a tolerable CHA, a minor cloak of charisma, and a couple of Extra Turning feats, you can have 3+4 (CHA) + 8 (two Extra Turning feats) = 15 turn attempts, enough to fuel a Divine Persistent Divine Power and Righteous Might, say. I'd say that's probably too good. The fighter or barbarian in his group would likely agree.
nittanytbone 11-10-06, 09:08 AM	With a tolerable CHA, a minor cloak of charisma, and a couple of Extra Turning feats, you can have 3+4 (CHA) + 8 (two Extra Turning feats) = 15 turn attempts, enough to fuel a Divine Persistent Divine Power and Righteous Might, say. I'd say that's probably too good. The fighter or barbarian in his group would likely agree. Or just cast Eagle's Glory. 14 cha + 3 turn attempts for being a cleric + 2 freebies from a temporary charisma boost = 7 turn attempts Now, consider the cleric is spending three feats, all of his turn attempts, and a level 2 spell every day to get this power, and it can be (easily) dispelled.