Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zedraikis 06-26-04, 05:11 AM	Can manyshot be used when hasted or with a speed enchanted bow? I understand that both haste and speed only grant one extra attack, but that's exactly what manyshot is. Several arrows being fired off at the same time in one single attack. If not, is there anyway to use manyshot in addition to your base number of attacks? I've been trying to find an effective way to get a lot of attacks with archer based builds that... Snow, was it, had posted here? Since 3.5 nerfed it, the only number attacks I know I can get for sure is six at 20th level. Four from BAB, one from rapid shot, and another from haste or a bow with the speed enchantment. Of course, there are always attacks of oppertunities. I heard there was an improved rapid shot feat, but I can't seem to find it in any of the books I have. Anyone know of it and, if so, what book it can be found in? Can the DC of arrows of slaying be raised higher? That bow of solars in the Arms book is a nice item, but the DC for slaying arrows in the DMG is horrible for the high level game I'm making an archer for. Not sure if I can add additional abilities to it, either. Not really good with that stuff.
lonewolf 06-26-04, 05:37 AM	1. Manyshot is a standard action. you can only have 1 standard action per round.=> if you use Manyshot you cant do any other attacks. 2. Both Haste and the speed enchantment grant you 1 additional attack if you do a FULL ATTACK. no bonus for Manyshot here. 3. I also think that 6 is the maximum. 4. I dont know about the improved Rapid shot but Greater Manyshot is in the XPH. 5. those arrows are not supposed to have a high DC, because otherwise they become very strong. I wouldnt bother with them if i were you.
Ashianyl 06-26-04, 05:44 AM	Haste and speed enchanted bows only grant that extra attack if you do a full attack (3.5) Manyshot is a standard action activated attack, so you can't get that extra attack from Haste. Improved Rapid Shot removes the -2 penalty from Rapid Shot... it's in Complete Fighters or Player's Guide to Faerun (can't remember which). Sorry, I don't know how you can get that extra attack either without going into Epic where you can get Improved Manyshot.
Black Sheep 06-26-04, 05:46 AM	Improved Rapd Shot is in the Complete Warrior, p.101. There are several other ranged combat feats in there.
Zedraikis 06-26-04, 03:15 PM	Thanks for the help, everyone. Improved Manyshot? Is that in the Epic Handbook? I know Greater Manyshot is in the Psionics Handbook and that just lets you direct your arrows at more than one enemy. Thinking about it, I really don't see how Manyshot even grants a benefit from taking the feat. The penalties to attack make it too costly for low level characters and it's no good for high level characters, as they get more attacks just doing normal attacks. In any case, I'll have to look up Improved Manyshot. I want to see what that does. Anyone else have any effective builds for an archer that doesn't have any psionic/magic based classes in it?
Merxis 06-27-04, 01:00 AM	the 3.5 character focused update series of Dragon need to be required reading! well, I believe its #310, that has a variant fighter class called the Targeter. It is a fighter, except gets prof with only simple weapons and 2 ranged weapons, light and medium armor, and gets a slightly different (but still pathetic, might even be worse!) skill list. However, you can choose in place of a bonus feats either Sniper, Vital Aim, Hail (Swarm?) of arrows . Sniper lets you give up attacks to increase a weapons threat range by 1, which is good. Than you see Vital Aim- Add your Dexterity bonus to ranged weapon attacks. Good. Now, then we have the more relevant one, Hail/Swarm of Arrows. This lets you basically do a Rapid Shot on steroids, I think its 2 extra attacks at -4, but I can't remember specifics. Anyways, see if you can borrow it from a friend or something, it may be just what the boards ordered. :)
Part-Human2 06-27-04, 01:16 AM	a) No. b) I don't believe so. c) Epic Feats or extra arms and 2 bows d) Complete Warrior (originated in a Dragon Magazine) e) The Greater Slaying (DMG) requires the use of Heightened Finger of Death perhaps a Greater Bow of the Solars DC 23? My Human Archer is 17th level (Ftr12/2 OoBI/DWS 3). With my +5 Blessed, Speed Composite Longbow (+4 STR) I get +35/+35/+35/+30/+25/+20 for a full attack (+1 within 30 ft) and Manyshot is +28/+28/+28/+28 or +30/+30/+30 (because it has to be within 30 ft.). I've found Manyshot is good for Surprise rounds or if you need to move and fire (or fire then move). At 1d8+15, 19-20/x4. With all the attack rolls I get, I get a good number of Criticals -- got 5 criticals in 2 rounds last play session killing a Giant and Demon before they ever got to do anything.
charlesatan 06-27-04, 12:02 PM	Originally posted by Zedraikis Improved Manyshot? Is that in the Epic Handbook? I know Greater Manyshot is in the Psionics Handbook and that just lets you direct your arrows at more than one enemy. Thinking about it, I really don't see how Manyshot even grants a benefit from taking the feat. The penalties to attack make it too costly for low level characters and it's no good for high level characters, as they get more attacks just doing normal attacks. Greater Many Shot (from Expanded Psionics Handbook) not only lets you target several targets, but more importantly, lets you apply precision-based damage on all those arrow shots (i.e. critical hits, sneak attacks, etc.). The advantage of Many Shot is that it's a standard action, which means you can move then use Many Shot. Of course if you're just going to use a full-round action, it's better to utilize Rapid Shot since the penalties are less.
charlesatan 06-27-04, 12:05 PM	Originally posted by Zedraikis Can the DC of arrows of slaying be raised higher? That bow of solars in the Arms book is a nice item, but the DC for slaying arrows in the DMG is horrible for the high level game I'm making an archer for. Not sure if I can add additional abilities to it, either. Not really good with that stuff. Just a reminder that Bow of the Solars is for a LARGE character. Yes, the DC for slaying arrows is low when it comes to epic games. However, they can still be useful if you're making multiple attacks, since the more saving throws you make your opponent roll, the more chances he'll have of rolling a 1 (automatic failure). And you could also run into a monster whose best saving throw isn't Fortitude.
Kalrin 06-27-04, 02:09 PM	Originally posted by Zedraikis Thinking about it, I really don't see how Manyshot even grants a benefit from taking the feat. The penalties to attack make it too costly for low level characters and it's no good for high level characters, as they get more attacks just doing normal attacks. Well, if you've got Complete Warrior, Ranged Sunder is really nice with Manyshot. Even using arrows, you can usually bust a weapon with that combination.
Zedraikis 06-28-04, 02:24 AM	I went ahead and went with an archer regardless of not being able to get more attacks. My Human Archer is 17th level (Ftr12/2 OoBI/DWS 3). With my +5 Blessed, Speed Composite Longbow (+4 STR) I get +35/+35/+35/+30/+25/+20 for a full attack (+1 within 30 ft) and Manyshot is +28/+28/+28/+28 or +30/+30/+30 (because it has to be within 30 ft.). I've found Manyshot is good for Surprise rounds or if you need to move and fire (or fire then move). At 1d8+15, 19-20/x4. With all the attack rolls I get, I get a good number of Criticals -- got 5 criticals in 2 rounds last play session killing a Giant and Demon before they ever got to do anything. Not a bad build. I went with Rogue 2/Fighter 4/OotBI 4/Peerless Archer 8. My mistake, however, was making my bow a +5 bow, and then buying a Quiver of Anariel, which is a magical quiver that always produces +5 adamantine arrows for my archer. I had thought that the +5 from the bow would help to attack, while the +5 on the arrows helped with damage. Just makes sense like that. Or, apparently to the DMG, not. Oops. So, now I'm deciding what I need to change, since they also don't stack. Get rid of the quiver and keep the bow +5, or make the bow +1, which'll be completely ignored, and just stack up on magical abilities on the bow. That needed, but completely useless +1 requirement really urks me, though.
charlesatan 06-28-04, 04:15 AM	Originally posted by Zedraikis I had thought that the +5 from the bow would help to attack, while the +5 on the arrows helped with damage. Just makes sense like that. Or, apparently to the DMG, not. Oops. If it makes you feel any better, it used to stack in 3.0.
Zedraikis 06-28-04, 04:24 AM	If it makes you feel any better, it used to stack in 3.0. An archer in general in 3.0 was a combat god if you knew what to do. Anyway, would it be easier to just junk the quiver, save me 130K gold, spend it on something else, and keep the +5 bow, or vice versa?
charlesatan 06-28-04, 05:30 AM	Originally posted by Zedraikis Anyway, would it be easier to just junk the quiver, save me 130K gold, spend it on something else, and keep the +5 bow, or vice versa? Sheer mathematics tells me to junk the quiver (since the a +5 bow costs 100,000 gp versus the 130,000 gp of the quiver) unless your GM really sends you opponents all with material-type damage reduction. Otherwise, just stock up on arrows with different material types.
Funny Slaughter 06-28-04, 05:32 AM	better to load the bow with abilities as a +5 bow does not produce +5 arrows gs Funny
Neonsamurai 06-28-04, 05:40 AM	Ranged weapons bestow their enhancement bonus on ammunition fired with the weapon if the projectile's existing enhancement bonus is lower (they do not stack however). Furthermore all applicable weapon enchantments are bestowed on the ammunition.
Obleo 06-28-04, 10:11 AM	Well, this seems like a good place to ask this question instead of starting a new thread, so here's another archer equipment question: Are there any enhancements that can be put on bows/arrows to bypass natural armor bonuses/dodge/luck/etc.? Right now I'm playing a ranged fighter with a bow of brilliant energy (which bypasses nonliving armor), but our campaign just took a plot turn in which I'll end up fighting alot of monks with ridiculous AC's. Right now the only way I'm able to hit these guys are with rings of blinking or a good bluff check. I need something that can beat their zany natural/dodge/sacred/luck/monk bonuses.
charlesatan 06-28-04, 10:24 AM	Originally posted by Obleo Are there any enhancements that can be put on bows/arrows to bypass natural armor bonuses/dodge/luck/etc.? Right now I'm playing a ranged fighter with a bow of brilliant energy (which bypasses nonliving armor), but our campaign just took a plot turn in which I'll end up fighting alot of monks with ridiculous AC's. Right now the only way I'm able to hit these guys are with rings of blinking or a good bluff check. I need something that can beat their zany natural/dodge/sacred/luck/monk bonuses. In general, nothing really prevents certain type of bonuses (such as luck or Monk AC bonus or insight bonus) unless the targets are helpless. For dodge, the only means I know of is to catch them flat-footed (or in the case of Dodge, not the target of its ability). For natural armor though, you have some hope yet. In Draconomicon, the spell Find the Gap lets you ignore the target's natural armor/armor/shield bonus once per round. It's a third-level spell for Paladins, Rangers, and Assassins.
RodIshiCi 06-28-04, 02:50 PM	Yes, Improved Manyshot is in the Epic Level Handbook. And keep in mind that Haste extra attack won't stack with the Speed weapon property.
Zedraikis 06-28-04, 03:16 PM	And keep in mind that Haste extra attack won't stack with the Speed weapon property. I know. I had decided to get Bracers of Blinding Strike (+8 instead of +6) at first, but, with my DM allowing me to make some alterations, I'm thinking about junking them. It'd be easier to get the Speed enhancement on my bow and a mithral breastplate of Nimbleness or something so I can still apply my full DEX. Besides, I also already have Improved Iniative as a chosen feat. better to load the bow with abilities as a +5 bow does not produce +5 arrows As Neosamurai said, a ranged weapon now imbues it's ammunition with it's enhancement bonuses. So, a +5 bow of, say, ghost touch and frost makes any arrow fired from it a +5 arrow of frost and ghost touch. Enhancements from both a bow and arrows don't stack, however. You use whichever is higher. Sheer mathematics tells me to junk the quiver (since the a +5 bow costs 100,000 gp versus the 130,000 gp of the quiver) unless your GM really sends you opponents all with material-type damage reduction. Otherwise, just stock up on arrows with different material types Fighting some big time demons/devils right now. So it's been taking some time to beat them down. Nevertheless, although Funny wasn't updated on the new ruling of the enhancements, stocking the bow with abilities might be good. I'm thinking I should keep the quiver, get a +1 bow, and stock it up with a decent number of other enhancements. The +1 from the bow will be ignored, but I'll still be firing +5 arrows that are imbued with a nice number of other enhancements from the bow. Other than Speed, the question is... what else should I pump it up with? Keen? I never really cared for the elemental damage enhancements. Something always comes where it's immune to it. Force, maybe? +d6 of Force damage with the chance of dispeling any Force affect it hits? Suggestions? Otherwise, just stock up on arrows with different material types. I wasn't aware you could put enhancements of the arrows themselves. Must cost a bundle of money, though.
horndgod 06-28-04, 03:28 PM	You can put weapon enhancements on arrows, same as any other weapon, except the price is 1/50 of normal. Elemental damage can be a good way to go. If you put all the elemental types on, chances are good that whatever you fight will be affected by some of it.