Archivist Archer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archivist Archer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stardock
11-25-06, 12:58 PM Ok, here's an idea that I've been thinking about for a while. Currently my build is this:

4 Fighter
3 Archivist
4 Seeker of the Misty Isle
2 Order of the Bow Initiate
5 Shadow Hunter (Eberron Campaign Flavor Choice)
2 Dread Commando

Pros:
-This gives you three bonus feats plus it opens the ability to cast ranger/paladin spells quite a bit earlier then they get them.
-Your saves are actually pretty decent
-At level 11 you can turn into an arrow demon by casting Lesser Holy Transmutation or Lesser Infernal Transmutation to gain the outsider type then casting polymorph on yourself.

Cons:
-You miss out on +3 BAB
-You miss out on quite a few fighter feats(Though I doubt you'd stay 20 fighter anyway)

Keep in mind I'm fairly new to the game so make no assumptions on what I know :D I'm looking to condense this build so that I don't have to multiclass so much, what would really be nice is a "divine" abjurant champion type class that gave full BAB and caster levels, but I haven't found one yet.
Thomas_Covenant
11-25-06, 01:06 PM You'd be better off looking for "Cleric Archer" builds in this board.

The cleric should give two feats (one per domain) for your archer build, and Divine Power handles your BAB needs.

Archivists have to focus hard to catch up, much less surpass the Cleric in anything (and in spellcasting, they sometimes can) but they won't do it in archery, period.

Seeker of the Misty Isle is a good fit though, ditch the rest.
Caelic
11-25-06, 01:08 PM I'm not at all sure of that, Thomas. IF the Archivist can get Turn Undead for DMM: Persist, his range of spells may well balance out the Cleric's advantages.
Stardock
11-25-06, 01:20 PM I see what you're saying, but the reason I didn't go cleric was two-fold:

1)I wouldn't gain access to the archery spells that the ranger gets (Possibly not a huge deal).

2)I don't have access to the elf domain since it's an Eberron campaign.
Seerow
11-25-06, 01:24 PM I've personally started liking the Chameleon as a class for all self-buffing needs.

I mean, you can either have access to every Divine and Arcane spell you want, of 6th level or less, or you can have access to all divine spells while having another set of abilities.

And don't forget, Anyspell is a Divine Spell that will let you mimic the Arcane Spells you need fully. Just get some turning worked in and watch the fun. (I made a thread to try to get ideas for stuff to persist with such a build, but no takers)
Thomas_Covenant
11-25-06, 01:34 PM Hmm...maybe I overreacted.

When I see Archivist instead of Cleric, then Fighter 4 for the 3 feats in a divine archer build, I literally flinched.

The Ranger spells are great, no question, but you're giving up an awful lot.

Hmm...Sacred Exorcist is the easiest way into DMM: Persist (or Quicken) but that's feats this build has a hard time affording.

I'd desperately try to get down to two Fighter levels, though, the second two really hurt it....might try posting a completed build.
Stardock
11-25-06, 01:39 PM You know...in hindsight those extra two levels of fighter aren't doing anything for me that two levels of ranger wouldn't, plus I could add survival as a class skill then, and I need it to enter the Seeker of the Misty Isle class.
Seerow
11-25-06, 01:40 PM On a random note: Stardock, Riftwar Saga fan?
Stardock
11-25-06, 01:42 PM On a random note: Stardock, Riftwar Saga fan?

Yes :D
Seerow
11-25-06, 01:47 PM Much <3. I own every book in the multi-series, read multiple times. Great books. (One of my alts elsewhere is Mage of Stardock actually...)
Stardock
11-25-06, 08:08 PM Okay, new build:

Level Class Feats
1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot(Fighter Bonus)
2 Ranger Track (Ranger Bonus)
3 Ranger Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus), Extend Spell
4 Archivist Scribe Scroll
5 Archivist
6 Fighter Weapon Focus(Longbow), Persistent Spell
7 Archivist
8 Sacred Exorcist
9 Sacred Exorcist Extra Turning
10 Sacred Exorcist
11 Sacred Exorcist
12 Sacred Exorcist Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell)
13 Sacred Exorcist
14 Sacred Exorcist
15 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat
16 Seeker of the Misty Isle
17 Seeker of the Misty Isle
18 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat
19 Order of the Bow Initiate
20 Order of the Bow Initiate

This let's me cast up to 7th level Cleric Spells, I have a BAB of 15 and a caster level of 14. Saves are still pretty decent.

The only real questions I have:

1) is the 2 level dip into OotBI is worth two caster levels? Essentially I'm trading the ability of being able to cast level 8 spells for the ability to shoot my bow without provoking an AoO.

2) Is trading 2 fighter for 2 ranger a smart move? I'll end up with Track and Rapid Shot as a ranger, but I'm stuck in light armor if I want to use it. If I take fighter I can wear heavy/medium armor and still use rapid shot.

Any other suggestions to improve this build?
Seerow
11-25-06, 08:28 PM If you're polymorphing into an Arrow Demon, you already have close combat shot, why give up two levels of spellcasting for that?

As for your armor problem, buy Halfweight Armor. If you persist enough spells, you'll save a ton of money on equipment (Trust me, I'm making a Chameleon Archer as I mentioned, using similar persisting methods. I've spent maybe 300-400k so far, and am at a loss for what to buy beyond just upgrading my bow a lot) that you can afford to do so without too much trouble.

Or you could just Persist Heroics for Rapid Shot and take another 2 levels of Archivist or some other PrC for it.
runestar
11-25-06, 09:27 PM Those archery spells from champions of ruin are divine - an archivist could theoratically add them to his spell list if he could somehow track down a ranger to provide the necessary spellcasting.:)

The archivist gets the same spells, and more than a cleric. Thus, anything a cleric can do, an archivist could logically do as well, barring persistent divine metamagic stuff.
Stardock
11-26-06, 09:30 PM Okay, what about this:

Level Class Feats
1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot(Fighter Bonus)
2 Fighter Rapid Shot (Fighter Bonus)
3 Archivist Extend Spell, Scribe Scroll(Archivist Bonus)
4 Archivist
5 Archivist
6 Fighter Persistent Spell
7 Archivist
8 Sacred Exorcist
9 Sacred Exorcist Extra Turning
10 Sacred Exorcist
11 Sacred Exorcist
12 Sacred Exorcist Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell)
13 Sacred Exorcist
14 Sacred Exorcist
15 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat
16 Seeker of the Misty Isle
17 Seeker of the Misty Isle
18 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat
19 Contemplative
20 Contemplative

Okay, this gives me a caster level of 17, and lets me cast 9th level spells, however it also breaks one of the cardinal rules of the CO board, an odd level of fighter. I can't take it away though unless I want to only cast level 8 spells or if I want to take the multiclass xp penalty.
Caelic
11-26-06, 10:21 PM Sometimes, the cardinal rules need to be broken.

The reason a third level of fighter is usually a bad idea is because it doesn't give much--one BAB, one to Reflex and Will saves, and that's about it.

In your case, though, it also enables you to avoid an XP penalty. Therefore, there's a reason to take it; therefore, the "rule" has an exception.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
11-26-06, 11:35 PM How about:
Fighter 1/Ranger 1/Archivist 2/Ranger +1/etc

Ranger 2 gets you rapid shot (replacing the need for Fighter 2), better saves, better skills, and the track feat (for what that's worth). The only downside: 2 fewer HP on average.

If your favored class is ranger, then you've got a problem, but if you can find a race with either favored class: ANY or favored class: Fighter, then you should be good to go.

I searched the thread for any mention of race and did not find any. Did you specify which one you wanted? If not, then human would be a good choice (more feats, and no worries about XP penalties).
Rashomon
11-27-06, 12:02 AM Start with Ranger 1.

Otherwise, good.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stardock 11-25-06, 12:58 PM	Ok, here's an idea that I've been thinking about for a while. Currently my build is this: 4 Fighter 3 Archivist 4 Seeker of the Misty Isle 2 Order of the Bow Initiate 5 Shadow Hunter (Eberron Campaign Flavor Choice) 2 Dread Commando Pros: -This gives you three bonus feats plus it opens the ability to cast ranger/paladin spells quite a bit earlier then they get them. -Your saves are actually pretty decent -At level 11 you can turn into an arrow demon by casting Lesser Holy Transmutation or Lesser Infernal Transmutation to gain the outsider type then casting polymorph on yourself. Cons: -You miss out on +3 BAB -You miss out on quite a few fighter feats(Though I doubt you'd stay 20 fighter anyway) Keep in mind I'm fairly new to the game so make no assumptions on what I know :D I'm looking to condense this build so that I don't have to multiclass so much, what would really be nice is a "divine" abjurant champion type class that gave full BAB and caster levels, but I haven't found one yet.
Thomas_Covenant 11-25-06, 01:06 PM	You'd be better off looking for "Cleric Archer" builds in this board. The cleric should give two feats (one per domain) for your archer build, and Divine Power handles your BAB needs. Archivists have to focus hard to catch up, much less surpass the Cleric in anything (and in spellcasting, they sometimes can) but they won't do it in archery, period. Seeker of the Misty Isle is a good fit though, ditch the rest.
Caelic 11-25-06, 01:08 PM	I'm not at all sure of that, Thomas. IF the Archivist can get Turn Undead for DMM: Persist, his range of spells may well balance out the Cleric's advantages.
Stardock 11-25-06, 01:20 PM	I see what you're saying, but the reason I didn't go cleric was two-fold: 1)I wouldn't gain access to the archery spells that the ranger gets (Possibly not a huge deal). 2)I don't have access to the elf domain since it's an Eberron campaign.
Seerow 11-25-06, 01:24 PM	I've personally started liking the Chameleon as a class for all self-buffing needs. I mean, you can either have access to every Divine and Arcane spell you want, of 6th level or less, or you can have access to all divine spells while having another set of abilities. And don't forget, Anyspell is a Divine Spell that will let you mimic the Arcane Spells you need fully. Just get some turning worked in and watch the fun. (I made a thread to try to get ideas for stuff to persist with such a build, but no takers)
Thomas_Covenant 11-25-06, 01:34 PM	Hmm...maybe I overreacted. When I see Archivist instead of Cleric, then Fighter 4 for the 3 feats in a divine archer build, I literally flinched. The Ranger spells are great, no question, but you're giving up an awful lot. Hmm...Sacred Exorcist is the easiest way into DMM: Persist (or Quicken) but that's feats this build has a hard time affording. I'd desperately try to get down to two Fighter levels, though, the second two really hurt it....might try posting a completed build.
Stardock 11-25-06, 01:39 PM	You know...in hindsight those extra two levels of fighter aren't doing anything for me that two levels of ranger wouldn't, plus I could add survival as a class skill then, and I need it to enter the Seeker of the Misty Isle class.
Seerow 11-25-06, 01:40 PM	On a random note: Stardock, Riftwar Saga fan?
Stardock 11-25-06, 01:42 PM	On a random note: Stardock, Riftwar Saga fan? Yes :D
Seerow 11-25-06, 01:47 PM	Much <3. I own every book in the multi-series, read multiple times. Great books. (One of my alts elsewhere is Mage of Stardock actually...)
Stardock 11-25-06, 08:08 PM	Okay, new build: Level Class Feats 1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot(Fighter Bonus) 2 Ranger Track (Ranger Bonus) 3 Ranger Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus), Extend Spell 4 Archivist Scribe Scroll 5 Archivist 6 Fighter Weapon Focus(Longbow), Persistent Spell 7 Archivist 8 Sacred Exorcist 9 Sacred Exorcist Extra Turning 10 Sacred Exorcist 11 Sacred Exorcist 12 Sacred Exorcist Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) 13 Sacred Exorcist 14 Sacred Exorcist 15 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat 16 Seeker of the Misty Isle 17 Seeker of the Misty Isle 18 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat 19 Order of the Bow Initiate 20 Order of the Bow Initiate This let's me cast up to 7th level Cleric Spells, I have a BAB of 15 and a caster level of 14. Saves are still pretty decent. The only real questions I have: 1) is the 2 level dip into OotBI is worth two caster levels? Essentially I'm trading the ability of being able to cast level 8 spells for the ability to shoot my bow without provoking an AoO. 2) Is trading 2 fighter for 2 ranger a smart move? I'll end up with Track and Rapid Shot as a ranger, but I'm stuck in light armor if I want to use it. If I take fighter I can wear heavy/medium armor and still use rapid shot. Any other suggestions to improve this build?
Seerow 11-25-06, 08:28 PM	If you're polymorphing into an Arrow Demon, you already have close combat shot, why give up two levels of spellcasting for that? As for your armor problem, buy Halfweight Armor. If you persist enough spells, you'll save a ton of money on equipment (Trust me, I'm making a Chameleon Archer as I mentioned, using similar persisting methods. I've spent maybe 300-400k so far, and am at a loss for what to buy beyond just upgrading my bow a lot) that you can afford to do so without too much trouble. Or you could just Persist Heroics for Rapid Shot and take another 2 levels of Archivist or some other PrC for it.
runestar 11-25-06, 09:27 PM	Those archery spells from champions of ruin are divine - an archivist could theoratically add them to his spell list if he could somehow track down a ranger to provide the necessary spellcasting.:) The archivist gets the same spells, and more than a cleric. Thus, anything a cleric can do, an archivist could logically do as well, barring persistent divine metamagic stuff.
Stardock 11-26-06, 09:30 PM	Okay, what about this: Level Class Feats 1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot(Fighter Bonus) 2 Fighter Rapid Shot (Fighter Bonus) 3 Archivist Extend Spell, Scribe Scroll(Archivist Bonus) 4 Archivist 5 Archivist 6 Fighter Persistent Spell 7 Archivist 8 Sacred Exorcist 9 Sacred Exorcist Extra Turning 10 Sacred Exorcist 11 Sacred Exorcist 12 Sacred Exorcist Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) 13 Sacred Exorcist 14 Sacred Exorcist 15 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat 16 Seeker of the Misty Isle 17 Seeker of the Misty Isle 18 Seeker of the Misty Isle Feat 19 Contemplative 20 Contemplative Okay, this gives me a caster level of 17, and lets me cast 9th level spells, however it also breaks one of the cardinal rules of the CO board, an odd level of fighter. I can't take it away though unless I want to only cast level 8 spells or if I want to take the multiclass xp penalty.
Caelic 11-26-06, 10:21 PM	Sometimes, the cardinal rules need to be broken. The reason a third level of fighter is usually a bad idea is because it doesn't give much--one BAB, one to Reflex and Will saves, and that's about it. In your case, though, it also enables you to avoid an XP penalty. Therefore, there's a reason to take it; therefore, the "rule" has an exception.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-26-06, 11:35 PM	How about: Fighter 1/Ranger 1/Archivist 2/Ranger +1/etc Ranger 2 gets you rapid shot (replacing the need for Fighter 2), better saves, better skills, and the track feat (for what that's worth). The only downside: 2 fewer HP on average. If your favored class is ranger, then you've got a problem, but if you can find a race with either favored class: ANY or favored class: Fighter, then you should be good to go. I searched the thread for any mention of race and did not find any. Did you specify which one you wanted? If not, then human would be a good choice (more feats, and no worries about XP penalties).
Rashomon 11-27-06, 12:02 AM	Start with Ranger 1. Otherwise, good.