Post/Author/DateTime	Post
naufragous 10-17-06, 01:28 AM	So in a campaign I'm in I'm playing as a level 6 Archivist. I'll get the obvious out of the way, I'm a fairly new player. First here's a basic rundown of my character: Level 6 Archivist (Human) Str 10 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 17 Wis 14 Cha 10 Feats Scribe Scroll (Class) Extend Spell Sudden Maximize Draconic Archivist Archivist of Nature Basically in the campaign I'm running into a few problems. None of the creatures we have fought fall into the categories of the Dark Knowledge ability. We've fought a few Ogres which is why I picked up Archivist of Nature for the 6th level. I find that I'm mainly functioning as a healer and nothing more. Not that I mind but I feel like there's more I can be doing with him. I'm wondering what others have done with their Archivists and any suggestions on how to get the most out of my character (not necessarily power wise but just useful). Thanks
Prominence 10-17-06, 01:42 AM	Dark Knowledge loses a lot of power if you rarely fight aberrations, dragons, constructs, fey, outsiders, undead, .... Still, at higher levels most opponents tend to be crazy undead, outsiders, and custom NPCs. If you're never fighting your Dark Knowledge types, it's a DM thing. Is he favoring a certain race? You could ask him for custom feats similar to Favored Enemy. Or you can just focus on your amazing casting ability.
Bopple 10-17-06, 10:09 AM	Take a PrC that gives you turn undead and take Divine Metamagic. Take a PrC that gives you domains. Now you can fight even better than cleric. Why are you a healer? Are you the only divine class in the party? You have to choose - to be a benevolent band-aid or to be a selfish powerhouse?
naufragous 10-17-06, 02:14 PM	I'm the healer because there are no clerics (or the sort) in the party. It's not exactly an ideal situation but it's worked out ok so far. Question about the archivist spell list. I've heard people say that their able to get cleric domain spellsl; I'm wondering how? Is it through the ability to copy a scroll into our prayer book?
Prominence 10-17-06, 02:19 PM	You can copy -any- divine spell into your prayerbook. This includes paladin, ranger, spirit shaman, divine bard, and cleric domains. Simply scribe a scroll of it using a donated spell and scribe that scroll into your book (or flat out buy it from a vendor).
MegaPlex 10-17-06, 02:37 PM	Take a look here at the Adept spells list -- a core class from the DMG that casts divine spells: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm 1st level: Burning Hands 2nd level: Scorching Ray, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Web 3rd level: Lightning Bolt 4th level: Polymorph, Stoneskin, Wall of Fire 5th level: Baleful Polymorph Here is a list of all Divine casters with spell lists: Adept Apostle of Peace Beloved of Valarian Blackguard Blighter Cleric Druid Emissary of Barachiel Ghampion of Gwynharwyf Hunter of the Dead Knight of the Chalice Paladin Ranger Shugenja Vassal of Bahamut In addition to all the domain spells out there. There are also some prestige classes you can get into that normaly only druid/ranger classes can qualify for. And remember Divine spells don't have Arcane Spell Failure chance, so spending a feat (or take a PrC) for Heavy Armor is a good idea. Cast that Lightning Bolt in full plate + shield! Easiest way to get these spells? Buy a scroll and scribe it into your 'prayerbook' :D
rilem 10-17-06, 02:41 PM	Xeraph did a Archivist12/Nightcloak8 — full casting, Int. to Saves, flavor up the wazoo. Perhaps Archivist7/Warlock4/DeathDelver1/EldritchDisciple8 Cast as Archivist 15/Warlock12 Use the invocation from complete mage that gives +6 to Knowledge checks to boost dark knowledge.
Person_Man 10-17-06, 04:56 PM	1) Buy the Spell Compedium. As an Archivist, your strongest power is access to every domain spell and every divine spell. The Spell Compedium contains lists of all the domains (as of the time it was published) and most of the powerful spells from all the other splat books. Figure out the best combo's, and use them. 2) Have the party chip in and buy a Wand of Cure whatever. There is no reason that you should waste your precious spell slots on healing. 3) Pick a PrC you like and go into it. Now that you have access to Archivist spell progression, there is no reason to stick with their lousy d6 hit points, poor BAB, and special abilities that aren't helpful for your campaign. Church Inquisitor, Elemental Savant, Justiciar of Tyr, Ruathar, Sacred Exorcist (grants Turn Undead), Shadow Adept, Thaumaturgist, and Dragonslayer (for 1 level, grants full armor and weapons) all work. 4) Plan to be the ultimate buff warrior. Once you get access to Divine Power and other 4th+ level buff spells, you become the most potent Tank/Meatshield in the group (albiet for a limited number of times per day). Add in 4th level Ranger, Paladin, and Blackguard spells (some of which are only balanced for 14th+ level characters) and you should be able to mop the floor with your enemies blood. Be sure to plan accordingly, and avoid wasting feats on things that don't improve your buff spell casting ability, like Draconic Archivist and Archivist of Nature. 5) Speaking of useless feats, see if you can convince your DM to allow you to retrain and pick different feats. The Archivist feats are horribly sub-optimal.
CygnusDarius 10-17-06, 05:08 PM	Where does Draconic Archivist and Archivist of Nature come from? I can't find them in Heroes of Horror (unless I haven't looked thoroughly). Well, to the subject at hand. Both Sacred Exorcist and Master of Radiance (Librist Mortis) grant turn undead but both have advantages of their own; for example: The Master of Radiance is an undead Ray monkey, while the Sacred Exorcist deals with mind-controlling monsters. But for later on, Contemplative is a good choice since it gives you domains.
rilem 10-17-06, 05:19 PM	I think Death Delver gives Turn Undead, too. And now that you mention contemplative, Xeraph's build was actually: Archivist5/Nightcloak8/Archivist6/Contemplative1 -- tweak the build with Camendine Monk instead of Contemplative. Found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8360954)
HelloRaptor 10-17-06, 05:31 PM	It sounds as if there are already combat monkeys in his party. While the advice of people suggesting you go that route is all well and good, it's also pretty meh if people already have that covered. When reading build advice here, do try to keep in mind that much of it is aimed at optimizing you and you alone, not 'what is the optimal build for my character to contribute to the party'. If you go Archivist-Gish and put all the fighters in your party to shame (or let them die as you're too busy fighting to heal them), is it really optimal or fun? Archivists have access to some pretty ridiculous spells, many of which will allow you to wow people while still remaining primarily in your own area of expertise, and whoever said the other Archivist Feats aren't worthwhile is on crack. My own Archivist has Draconic Archivist, and nobody's yet had cause to complain over +3 bonuses to saving throws vs monsters where saves are pivotal, or +3 to attack in the same situation, all without losing a spell slot. Giving everybody +3d6 damage? Also nice. It's really not that difficult to tweak your Knowledge skills so that getting a 35 is pretty routine. For healing, by the way, take a look at Rejuvination Cocoon in the Spell Compendium. I believe you get it a level before Heal, and it has essentially the same effect, it just takes a round longer. And in the first round they're surrounded by a cocoon of force. The dragon we were fighting yesterday blew a full attack trying to get to the guy inside, which was a full attack NOT aimed at one of us. I suppose it really comes down to a question: Did you make an Archivist to be a buff-gish-monkey, or to play one of the most ridiculous spellcasters out there, both in theme and in power? If the former... there are guides everywhere for how to gish out. If you want to play an Archivist for what it is, though, then just focus on doing that as well as you can. Contemplative is a good PrC. If you can get your DM to let you retrain a first level Feat, pick up Magical Training from Players Guide to Faerun, allowing you to cast a handful of Cantrips as Arcane spells. Archivist 10, Contemplative 1 (Magic Domain), Dweomerkeeper 9. You miss out on Dweomerkeeper 10, for metamagic boons, but the ability to spontaniously cast several spells as well as manifest them as supernatural abilities is a godsend for an Archivist. This does, of course, require that you actually worship a God of Magic. Mine is an Archivist of Boccob, so it's not much of a problem for me. Sacred Excorcist is another good one, with access to Turning for Divine Metamagic rape.
Endarire 10-17-06, 07:56 PM	Lowest Level Versions of Spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=515321) -EE
Harliquinn 10-26-06, 11:26 AM	Other than maximizing for combat potential, is there a way to really maximize on the Dark Knowledge ability of the class? Or is that pretty much considered 'useless' fluff? It seems on par (or slightly above) with a Bard's buffs against the right creatures. Some ways to buff Knowledge skills: Education (Feat) Master of Knowledge (Feat) Absent-Minded (Trait) Rilkan (Race) SKill Focus (Knowledge) (Feat) Warlock Invocation If you want to optimize a buffing Archivist, what would be the way to go? Harliquinn
colm_l 10-26-06, 02:51 PM	Other than maximizing for combat potential, is there a way to really maximize on the Dark Knowledge ability of the class? Or is that pretty much considered 'useless' fluff? It seems on par (or slightly above) with a Bard's buffs against the right creatures. It's v. useful - just has the downside that it more or less stops you taking a Prc (the most useful of the DK's are the higher level ones IMO). To the OP: buy a wand of "lesser vigour" (or failing that Cure light wounds), use your own spell slots on more useful spells. The Archivist can function v. well in multiple roles - it's up to you what you want to pick. For example - Archivists gain access to "Evard's Black Tentacles" a full spell level earlier than wizards & gain v. quick access to most of DnD's most powerful buffs. However, "Archivist of Nature" is probably a waste. 1/2 the creatures it grants you power over are extremely rare in most campaigns (or at least the ones I've played -I think I've encountered about 5 fey in all my years of DnD). You'll find DK becomes more useful when you go up in level - & more enemies are from the tougher creature types (Dragons, Abberations etc.).
zarzak 10-26-06, 03:44 PM	Is there an archivist handbook anywhere?
Endarire 10-26-06, 04:06 PM	Most people say to stick with archivist 'til 11 for the stunning dark knowledge. If you regularly encounter dragons or another creature type that requires a feat and you feel it worthwhile, then take that feat. Max the five creature knowledges of arcana, dungeoneering, nature, planes, and religion. -EE
Judging Eagle 10-26-06, 05:17 PM	Hmm. You're lvl 6 and you're not the party's main tank/damage deal and the parties main healer/buffer? Something's wrong. Very wrong. Don't worry, next level get the following: Divine Bard scrolls (look at the core PHB Bard Spell List to get a breif idea of the kind of power you'll be able to get). Haste, Slow, Good Hope, Glibness, Expeditious Retreat (make boots of that, for 4,000 gp +30 land speed and +12 to jump checks (asssuming yor speed is 30 with whatever armour you wear; you'll want a mithral chain shirt really) is great). Domain Spell scrolls (way too many here, check the SpC as some other said; the back of the compendium has all the domains or at least most of them). Adept Spells (Scorching Ray, Lighting Bolt, Polymorph, Invisibility, See Invis (sure the lat two can be bard as well, but w/e). Druid Spells (Summon Nature's Ally 4 (Dire Wolverine) (druid 4)+ Lots of Tamed Gaurd/attack dogs + Animal Growth (ranger 4) + Speak to Animals (ranger 1) = Some really screwed over enemies as yor [b]Huge[/i] Dire Wolverine plus six more large attack dogs will really put a dent in the enemies plans). Also, carry a club, cast spikes. It adds +2 damage/caster lvl and increases the crit range to 19-20/x2. That's 1d6 +12 damage. So... 13 to 18 damage per hit. As for healing and curing and buffing: 1. Get the party members who want you to heal to buy you materials for scrolls and wands. You won't heal unless there's a point, you can probably out-damage anyone in your party, as well as out-tank them and still be able to heal yourself and keep buffed for all the important fights via scrolls scribed in advance. 2. Get them to buy Wands of Lesser Vigour 1st lvl spell; heals 11 damage per charge (Fast healing 1 for 10 rounds +1 per caster lvl; max 25 rounds). Costs 750 gp to heal 550 total damage, the CLW wand heals.... 100-450 damage with a 275 average per wand. Lesser Vigour really is better for after combat healing. Get a wand of CLW for the ranger/paladin, Clerics/Druids/Archivists pack Lesser Vigour wands. Later get wands of Mass Lesser Vigour (3rd lvl spell, just like lesser vigour, only it's a .. 20 foot (?) burst effect; so 15 rounds of fast healing 1; costs more for this since it's a lvl 3 spell). A wand of cure serious with 25 charges is good for 'oh crap' situations in combat. Scribe Scrolls of Lesser Restoration, Restoration, Remove Blindness/Paralisis/Deafness, Dispell Magic, Break Enchantment, etc. etc. etc.. Basically carry scrolls of spells that ar very vital when you need them, but preparing them as part of your daily spells is stupid or wasteful. 3. Buff yourself and the party before combat. Bless + Prayer + Good Hope + Haste = Really Ripping Party (+6 to hit, +3 to damage, +3 to saves and ability/skill checks +4 to reflex saves; double on all movement types (up to +30 feet) and one more attack at highest Attack Bonus). If you have party members who refuse to sit still or help you reduce buffing time by casting some of those spells from a wand (Your rogue better have maxed UMD, if not he's a ******, ******, ******rogue). Then... well you'll see. The party wizard should cast haste; the party bard Good Hope (make sure he's a Divine Bard to use your scrolls, or just get a wand) that way your stuck only buffing for one or two rounds at most. If you have to spend a lot of time buffing; cast Obscuring mist 1st (750 gp for a wand), then buff. If party members decide to 'go fight' without buffs. That is, leave you to buff them while you can't actually fight; well if you want to fight and they wont' let you that is. If you don't want to engage in combat at all, that's fine too. I just like to show that my little librarian can be a beast at both knowledge and combat. through magic of course. If they want to you to just buff them. Well, wait for them to run off and keep buffing. Those who decide to stick with you during the buffing time are affected, those who don't. Aren't. They were out of range of your spell effect, sorry. Tell them you won't heal them b/c they did something to waste party resources intentionally(your buffs would have made it easier for them to fight and they took unneeded damage that they could have avoided if they waited for buffs). Once your party sees the immediate benefits of waiting two rounds for tons of buffs (that is, hitting everything 30% more often, attacking more often and moving twice as fast) they'll be much more willing to do things so that the party can surprise enemies so that you can buff before a fight. You just need a bit more moxy and your lil' librarian will be the raging librarian. Get more spells; there's tons and tons of possible options for you. Get your party to pitch-in if not buy you wands for healing and party buffs that they will benefit from. Use some buffs on yourself. Divine Power next level will be very nice. Buy Scrolls of Righteous Might just in case the party needs as Durkon said "The Big Guns". Scribe, Scribe, Scribe! Scrolls. You'll save so much grief with lots of prepped scrolls. Also, get the party to help you off-set the xp penalties of creating lots of items by looking at the PHB web Enhancement. Swap your Archivist of ___ feats for craft wonderous object next lvl (PHB II, you can swap feats and otehr things every level); craft 5 of the XP transfer talismans; and you get the Craft Feast (or whateve) feat for free. If you can hit 35-ish AC all day long; have +18/+18 to hit (or higher and with more attacks), 20-average damage per hit and at least 50% displacement by lvl 5-7 your doing all right as an Archivist. That's in addition to being a heal machine and status-effect remover. You're not losing healing/buffing/casting abilities to gain combat abilities, you get them both.
Phoenix00 10-26-06, 05:23 PM	Where does Draconic Archivist and Archivist of Nature come from? I can't find them in Heroes of Horror (unless I haven't looked thoroughly). Archivist of Nature Heroes of Horror p119 Draconic Archivist Heroes of Horror p122 Those are the only two feats like that for Archivist.
Phoenix00 10-26-06, 06:02 PM	Stay away from turning your archivist as a tank, its easy to do but your party doesn't need another one. I would grab extradionary concentration as your 9th level feat. You won't be quickening alot of spells for a while due to limited spell slots, so mainting existing spells as a swift or move action allows you to cast multiple spells per round. An easy spell for this is call lighting (3rd level druid) and call lighting storm (5th level druid). 50 damage each round as swift action is pretty good(you use a 2nd level spell forgot its name from spell compedium to make the weather storm) will net you 5d10 damage, then use an empower or maximized rod to increase the damage (only need to use it as casting). You can then summon a lighting bolt as a swift or move action with a concentration check. You can do this a total of 15 times (7.5 rounds or 5 rounds depends if you do swift/move +another spell, or swift/move/standard) Also conserves spell slots. Oh also buy the spell compedium it is an archivists best friend.
Harliquinn 10-27-06, 09:53 AM	Is it generally accepted that the Dark Knowledge ability when used incorporates all the Dark Knowledge the Archivist has? For instance if a 5th level Archivist uses Dark Knowledge against a group of undead, does the party benefit from both tactics and puissance or does the Archivist have to pick which one? If it's the former, Dark Knowledge is a nice, scaling ability. If it's the latter, then it appears that Dark Knowledge is not that useful in general. Harliquinn