Archmage Spell-Like Abilities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archmage Spell-Like Abilities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Narcanos
05-04-05, 03:12 AM If you're going to take an archmage spell-like ability, which ones do you choose?

The options that struck me as most sensible are

"Shapechange" (can't share with familiar)
"Time Stop"
"Teleport"
"Dimension Door"

But I'd like more feedback on what the most generally useful spell-like abilities might be,
PhaedrusXY
05-04-05, 03:18 AM Wish. Then take Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species. ;)

Time Stop would be a good one too, though. Then you could take Maximize Spell-Like Ability, and have a Maximized Time Stop without having to spend a ton of money on a Metamagic Rod or be an Incantatrix.
Narcanos
05-04-05, 03:21 AM Sorry, forgot to mention, I am just using core.
PhaedrusXY
05-04-05, 03:32 AM Sorry, forgot to mention, I am just using core.Then use an Empowered Time Stop instead. :D Empower Spell-Like Ability is core (it's in the Monster Manual).

You may think the things I'm suggesting are "cheesy", "munchkin", or whatever derogatory adjective you want to use. But really, if you don't abuse them somewhat, this Archmage power really isn't worth taking at all, IMO. Why waste two spell slots to do the exact same thing you could have done with one?

Quicken SLA would be a decent feat to add to one, also (and it's also in the Monster Manual). But I'm not sure what spell I'd want to pick to apply it to. There are alot of nice choices.
runestar
05-04-05, 07:15 AM Wish. Then take Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species.

I think there's an entry in the sage that specifically supercedes this. No longer can you evade the xp cost by turning it into a spell-like ability or supernatural power, despite what interpretations you have about it.

Also, seeing as to how the class feature allows only 2 uses, as opposed to the feat from PGTF which allows 3, I would personally prefer using a higher lv slot to gain more uses of a lower lv spell, like say teleport/dimension door or perhaps the various shadow evocation/conjuration spells.
djinni
05-04-05, 09:24 AM but if I can timestop twice a day that's all I need...
Lord of Dorkness
05-04-05, 09:42 AM Yep. I was hung between timestop and shapechange myself. shapechange has more flexibility, but you can *always* use a timestop. so timestop it was.
the thing with burning spell slots is that you burn a 5th and a 9th level slot to cast two 9th level spells as a SLA. so your net gain is casting a 9th level spell in a 5th level slot. erm. granted, it's not that great without the monstrous feats, but if you know you'll use that spell every day anyway it's hardly a sacrifice in flexibility.

and sorry, you cannot empower/maximize/quicken all SLAs so easily. there is a table with maximum spell levels depending on HD in it. It's in the "monster feats" section in the SRD. For empower it's (HD/2)-2 and quicken is (HD/2)-4.

On the danger of kidnapping this thread:
Q- what's the difference between archmage and hierophant?
A- archmage burns spell slots, hierophant doesn't.

why is that so? well, I dunno. is there a reason I'm not aware of?
deduke
05-04-05, 10:08 AM Thread Kidnapped:

On the danger of kidnapping this thread:
Q- what's the difference between archmage and hierophant?
A- archmage burns spell slots, hierophant doesn't.

why is that so? well, I dunno. is there a reason I'm not aware of?
The main reason is that hierophant does not progress spell casting, it only improves caster lvl so basicly the difference is that hierophant sux and archmage rules
runestar
05-04-05, 10:14 AM The main reason is that hierophant does not progress spell casting, it only improves caster lvl so basicly the difference is that hierophant sux and archmage rules

At least before epic lvs at any rate.
necrosnoop110
05-04-05, 11:28 AM so basicly the difference is that hierophant sux and archmage rules
:D
Eyeless Blond
05-04-05, 11:42 AM At least before epic lvs at any rate.
Or if you're playing gestalt rules, in which case you can get up to *three* caster levels in one gestalt level (one from a +1 caster level class, one from the hierophant, one from Spell Power, though there are many better choices there.)
Narcanos
05-04-05, 12:26 PM The limitations on what spell levels you can quicken and empower are a little steep. Still, you can raise caster level to at least 22 without too much trouble (archmage level and ioun stone) Using a higher level spell slot to cast quickened true strike every day wouldn't be a waste. Also, at caster level 22 you can go ahead and start empowering 9th level spells, so empowered 9th level time stop should work fine, as could meteor strike.....
DTFarstar
05-04-05, 01:28 PM I played a character that went Archmage in a game that ended a year or so ago. We went from level 1 to level 26, and the only Spell-Like Ability I took as an Archmage was Moment of Prescience. At high level a random +caster level to a save or your AC is LIFESAVING alot. Although I think my favorite is when our fighter just could not bust down the door to a place and my "pansy golden daisy-kisser" walked up and touched the door and it just kind of fell in. Which I guess in strict interpretation of the spell might not be possible. Not sure if a strength check to bust a door could be considered opposed, but it makes sense. Also, I think it can be used to escape grapples. I'm posting with my books in my car and I'm too lazy to find the spell and stuff in the SRD, but I'm sure you could argue a grapple check as opposed ability or an attack roll. So, I guess if you have a really strict DM, it's less useful for anything but saving you from death by adding +20-ish to your AC or Saving throw. *shrug* Still one of my "Cast every day" spells with any wizard. I'll trade 1 8th level spell slot for life any day. Heh, and I'll definately trade 1 8th and 1 5th for 2 chances at life.

Oh, I was a metamagicing evoker in that game so.... I frequently blew something up then had either a severely injured it or it's living friends run me down and try to beat me to death, so the AC and saving throws perhaps came in handy for me more often because I was in melee WAY more often than a wizard EVER wants to be.

Darian Timiriel Farstar
PhaedrusXY
05-04-05, 02:45 PM but if I can timestop twice a day that's all I need...Yeah, I guess since it's 2x per day for one high level spellslot and one 5th level spellslot, it isn't so bad. Just pick some high level spell you know you're going to want to use every day. Also, I'd forgotten about the caster level limits on the SLA Metamagic feats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Narcanos 05-04-05, 03:12 AM	If you're going to take an archmage spell-like ability, which ones do you choose? The options that struck me as most sensible are "Shapechange" (can't share with familiar) "Time Stop" "Teleport" "Dimension Door" But I'd like more feedback on what the most generally useful spell-like abilities might be,
PhaedrusXY 05-04-05, 03:18 AM	Wish. Then take Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species. ;) Time Stop would be a good one too, though. Then you could take Maximize Spell-Like Ability, and have a Maximized Time Stop without having to spend a ton of money on a Metamagic Rod or be an Incantatrix.
Narcanos 05-04-05, 03:21 AM	Sorry, forgot to mention, I am just using core.
PhaedrusXY 05-04-05, 03:32 AM	Sorry, forgot to mention, I am just using core.Then use an Empowered Time Stop instead. :D Empower Spell-Like Ability is core (it's in the Monster Manual). You may think the things I'm suggesting are "cheesy", "munchkin", or whatever derogatory adjective you want to use. But really, if you don't abuse them somewhat, this Archmage power really isn't worth taking at all, IMO. Why waste two spell slots to do the exact same thing you could have done with one? Quicken SLA would be a decent feat to add to one, also (and it's also in the Monster Manual). But I'm not sure what spell I'd want to pick to apply it to. There are alot of nice choices.
runestar 05-04-05, 07:15 AM	Wish. Then take Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species. I think there's an entry in the sage that specifically supercedes this. No longer can you evade the xp cost by turning it into a spell-like ability or supernatural power, despite what interpretations you have about it. Also, seeing as to how the class feature allows only 2 uses, as opposed to the feat from PGTF which allows 3, I would personally prefer using a higher lv slot to gain more uses of a lower lv spell, like say teleport/dimension door or perhaps the various shadow evocation/conjuration spells.
djinni 05-04-05, 09:24 AM	but if I can timestop twice a day that's all I need...
Lord of Dorkness 05-04-05, 09:42 AM	Yep. I was hung between timestop and shapechange myself. shapechange has more flexibility, but you can always use a timestop. so timestop it was. the thing with burning spell slots is that you burn a 5th and a 9th level slot to cast two 9th level spells as a SLA. so your net gain is casting a 9th level spell in a 5th level slot. erm. granted, it's not that great without the monstrous feats, but if you know you'll use that spell every day anyway it's hardly a sacrifice in flexibility. and sorry, you cannot empower/maximize/quicken all SLAs so easily. there is a table with maximum spell levels depending on HD in it. It's in the "monster feats" section in the SRD. For empower it's (HD/2)-2 and quicken is (HD/2)-4. On the danger of kidnapping this thread: Q- what's the difference between archmage and hierophant? A- archmage burns spell slots, hierophant doesn't. why is that so? well, I dunno. is there a reason I'm not aware of?
deduke 05-04-05, 10:08 AM	Thread Kidnapped: On the danger of kidnapping this thread: Q- what's the difference between archmage and hierophant? A- archmage burns spell slots, hierophant doesn't. why is that so? well, I dunno. is there a reason I'm not aware of? The main reason is that hierophant does not progress spell casting, it only improves caster lvl so basicly the difference is that hierophant sux and archmage rules
runestar 05-04-05, 10:14 AM	The main reason is that hierophant does not progress spell casting, it only improves caster lvl so basicly the difference is that hierophant sux and archmage rules At least before epic lvs at any rate.
necrosnoop110 05-04-05, 11:28 AM	so basicly the difference is that hierophant sux and archmage rules :D
Eyeless Blond 05-04-05, 11:42 AM	At least before epic lvs at any rate. Or if you're playing gestalt rules, in which case you can get up to three caster levels in one gestalt level (one from a +1 caster level class, one from the hierophant, one from Spell Power, though there are many better choices there.)
Narcanos 05-04-05, 12:26 PM	The limitations on what spell levels you can quicken and empower are a little steep. Still, you can raise caster level to at least 22 without too much trouble (archmage level and ioun stone) Using a higher level spell slot to cast quickened true strike every day wouldn't be a waste. Also, at caster level 22 you can go ahead and start empowering 9th level spells, so empowered 9th level time stop should work fine, as could meteor strike.....
DTFarstar 05-04-05, 01:28 PM	I played a character that went Archmage in a game that ended a year or so ago. We went from level 1 to level 26, and the only Spell-Like Ability I took as an Archmage was Moment of Prescience. At high level a random +caster level to a save or your AC is LIFESAVING alot. Although I think my favorite is when our fighter just could not bust down the door to a place and my "pansy golden daisy-kisser" walked up and touched the door and it just kind of fell in. Which I guess in strict interpretation of the spell might not be possible. Not sure if a strength check to bust a door could be considered opposed, but it makes sense. Also, I think it can be used to escape grapples. I'm posting with my books in my car and I'm too lazy to find the spell and stuff in the SRD, but I'm sure you could argue a grapple check as opposed ability or an attack roll. So, I guess if you have a really strict DM, it's less useful for anything but saving you from death by adding +20-ish to your AC or Saving throw. shrug Still one of my "Cast every day" spells with any wizard. I'll trade 1 8th level spell slot for life any day. Heh, and I'll definately trade 1 8th and 1 5th for 2 chances at life. Oh, I was a metamagicing evoker in that game so.... I frequently blew something up then had either a severely injured it or it's living friends run me down and try to beat me to death, so the AC and saving throws perhaps came in handy for me more often because I was in melee WAY more often than a wizard EVER wants to be. Darian Timiriel Farstar
PhaedrusXY 05-04-05, 02:45 PM	but if I can timestop twice a day that's all I need...Yeah, I guess since it's 2x per day for one high level spellslot and one 5th level spellslot, it isn't so bad. Just pick some high level spell you know you're going to want to use every day. Also, I'd forgotten about the caster level limits on the SLA Metamagic feats.