Are Marshals any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are Marshals any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ExaltedAbuse
03-16-05, 10:20 PM What exactly are Marshals good for? I have seen them in a number of builds but wouldn't thier abilities only make you good for party support?
SigmaJargon
03-16-05, 10:22 PM They're excellent for anybody who wants some synergy with cha. Motivate cha doubles your cha bonus on useful skills like umd and diplomacy. Motivate dex adds your cha bonus to initative checks. Etc, etc.
allenchan
03-16-05, 11:03 PM What exactly are Marshals good for? I have seen them in a number of builds but wouldn't thier abilities only make you good for party support?

Yes, but thats why you see them used. Primarily in conjunction with Paladin levels to round off a build, its a nice addition to any Cha-based fighter. Most people dont stay in Paladin that long, and you can fill some empty levels with a two/four level marshal dip before entering a PrC.
Snicker-Snack
03-16-05, 11:15 PM Marshals are also commonly used in builds that have certain focus in skills, specially Charisma based skills: Many Artificers take a one level dip into Marshal to pump their UMD, and most Diplomancers dip into Marshal for the Diplomacy boost (from both minor aura and skill focus).
Snarf
03-16-05, 11:55 PM Or high-level spellcasters who find +12 to penetrate SR useful...or by their cohorts :) Helluva 1-level dip!
Ipsissimus
03-17-05, 11:32 AM also if you use Leadership and bring your troops around, the class is pretty nice. IMO it could easily have been a 10 lvl PrC vs a alternate core 20.

I would have taken a few levels of it as my paladin/rogue but the penatlies for exp being an aasimar would not have been worth it.

It's kind of like bardic music...
Tolby
03-17-05, 11:35 AM I love the marshell as a Cohort. Helping me and the rest of the party fight or do whatever while not taking the limelight from any of the main players.
Michael Tree
03-17-05, 12:03 PM Or high-level spellcasters who find +12 to penetrate SR useful...or by their cohorts :) Helluva 1-level dip!
Especially since it provides the weapon and armor proficiencies required for eldritch knight, spellsword, and runesmith, gives good skill points and HP at 1st level, and decent saving throws besides.
Kribage
03-17-05, 06:03 PM I also don't have the Mini's book, and have seen the Marshal used a lot. When do they get the abilities that you guys list? Charisma to initiative seems strong. Besides skills, do they get Charisma to anything else? Any alignment restriction?
warok
03-17-05, 06:18 PM Marshall is also located here as an excerpt:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b

they get the abilities nearly all the time
A marshal can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the marshal takes his first turn.
cept for when...
A marshal's aura is dismissed if he is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by his allies.
mr.unknown
03-17-05, 06:39 PM all you would need is one LV of marshal to qualify you for quite a few fighter/mage combos. the determined spellcasting aura is awesome & will help your spells to affect a lot of creatures who has high SR. when you combine that with a caster who depends on CHA as their primary caster ability score, it gets even better.

one good combo i found is:

marshal 1/sor 6/eld. knight 1/spellsword 5/eld knight 7 more. take feats like pwr attack, arcane strike, maximize, fell drain/weaken, combat brute, etc. & you'd have one hell of a fighter/mage that really integrates spellcasting & fighting. & your channel spell class feature, & getting your hands on a spell storing weapon, & you could unleash some nasty combos.
ExaltedAbuse
03-17-05, 06:44 PM So would it be best to go with a Sorcerer19/Marshal1 with leadership? Or just have your cohort be a Marshal to save your spellcasting? (I know this isn't optimal but you get the idea)

And thanks for the info to everyone who responded :)
Zherog
03-17-05, 08:25 PM Any PrC that grants full spellcasting is going to be better than going to level 19 in sorcerer. Any. Even if the abilities suck horribly, it's still more than you get with plain sorcerer levels.
Judging Eagle
03-17-05, 09:18 PM Marshalls become a lot more potent when the party has more than one in the party.

Since a marshall can't have more than one offensive/defensive aura up at anyone time two marshalls who take auras that give good synergestic major and minor auras (ex. mastery of opportunity for the AC vs AoOs to let your party to flank easier, then Master of Tactics to give Cha mod as extra damage while flanking, if one has the +1 to attack rolls major aura, and an other has the +1 to damage rolls major aura your entire party has gained a massive amount of power; they get +2 to +3 to their AC vs Attacks of Opp, +2 to +3 to their damage rolls when flanking then an additional +1 to all (i think it's melee only though) attack rolls at all times and an additonal +1 to all damage rolls (as well, i think melee only, you could take the ranged major aura instead if you have many ranged attack party members like my living greyhawk parties seem to have).

Marshalls become very scary when you have more than one party member with two levels to give the party multiple buffs that run almost all the time (making them really crazy since they're the few continous type buffs in the game that I know of). If you have more than one party member who has enough levels to have the 'grant move action' ability and you've got a really speed-tricked gish (ie. expeditious assault* as well as haste, maybe a lvl of barb or some monk lvls and stride/springing boots) you can have your party able to completely outmanouver the opposition and make them have to react to you at every round.

*: Expeditious Assault is what Gish use, Exp. Retreat is for cowardly wizards and sorcerers. :P

For some reason I've got a real hankering to make a human barbarian/marshall for our living greyhawk party, i give out orders enough as it is at the table, so i might as well RP a char that fits the bill; plus we need a big smashing-stuff guy, we're really full of skill/buffs/ranged types, which makes us overpowered in some ways (we usually have 2-5 people who can roll for any knowledge check as low at lvl 1 and the other skills like spot/listenare pretty decent, it's the raw physical conan-type stuff that makes us fall short at times) but weak in the sort of straight up fights that LG commonly has.
ReBell48
03-17-05, 10:23 PM played a marshal/bard/warchanter diplomacy monkey. I love the synergy you can get with marshall.
baoban sith
03-17-05, 11:38 PM One level is wonderful for helping sorcerers qualify for multiple PrCs, in that the class also gets all knowledge skills as in class.
Kuroi Kenshi
03-18-05, 12:22 AM Marshal is a totally great dip class. I think the major auras are mostly outdone by bards, though. I don't think a straight Marshal20 would be all that great, either. They'd stack up if they had the ability to do more auras at once at higher levels, but nope!
ShiverTheBard
03-18-05, 01:37 AM Last week, I built a Marshal Killoren with a +14 Ini. at level 1. He had a 18 in Dex and Cha so he took Motivate Dexterity which gives Cha to Dex-skills and Ini. checks. Add +4 from Im. Ini., then with the Aspect of the Hunter from Killoren, that brought me to +14.

Marshals are good for a 1, 2, 3, or 5 dip only to 5 if you want two of each aura for some versatility, otherwise I really like dropping out at 2 or 3. It's an interesting class that brings some cool abilities to the table.
Wayne
03-18-05, 01:44 AM Yeah, only being able to use one aura at a time is probably the biggest drawback. Bards get that "lingering" effect whenever they switch Bardic music, and those five rounds are probably most of any given combat. But Marshals don't even have the option. :/

Anyway, I agree with the majority-- good NPC/Cohort class, but not really worth playing. They're barely arguably better than a Bard for buffing up as-is (and that mostly through using very high Charisma to boost "checks" that probably weren't intended, like Motivate Dexterity to boost the group's Initiative), and then they lack spellcasting and pretty much any synergy from any feats or PrCs. Bleh.

I did have fun using a Marshal as the leader of a group of Dispater's "Iron Legion," a bunch of guys with Mercurial weapons and levels in Disciple of Dispater and Weapon Master-- the Marshal, of course, had Master of Tactics (bonus non-dice damage gets multiplied :]) and Accurate Strike, and Force of Will to cover up their one weak save. It was a very niche build, but pretty useful for the group he had. And that's the only way a Marshal can be good. :\

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ExaltedAbuse 03-16-05, 10:20 PM	What exactly are Marshals good for? I have seen them in a number of builds but wouldn't thier abilities only make you good for party support?
SigmaJargon 03-16-05, 10:22 PM	They're excellent for anybody who wants some synergy with cha. Motivate cha doubles your cha bonus on useful skills like umd and diplomacy. Motivate dex adds your cha bonus to initative checks. Etc, etc.
allenchan 03-16-05, 11:03 PM	What exactly are Marshals good for? I have seen them in a number of builds but wouldn't thier abilities only make you good for party support? Yes, but thats why you see them used. Primarily in conjunction with Paladin levels to round off a build, its a nice addition to any Cha-based fighter. Most people dont stay in Paladin that long, and you can fill some empty levels with a two/four level marshal dip before entering a PrC.
Snicker-Snack 03-16-05, 11:15 PM	Marshals are also commonly used in builds that have certain focus in skills, specially Charisma based skills: Many Artificers take a one level dip into Marshal to pump their UMD, and most Diplomancers dip into Marshal for the Diplomacy boost (from both minor aura and skill focus).
Snarf 03-16-05, 11:55 PM	Or high-level spellcasters who find +12 to penetrate SR useful...or by their cohorts :) Helluva 1-level dip!
Ipsissimus 03-17-05, 11:32 AM	also if you use Leadership and bring your troops around, the class is pretty nice. IMO it could easily have been a 10 lvl PrC vs a alternate core 20. I would have taken a few levels of it as my paladin/rogue but the penatlies for exp being an aasimar would not have been worth it. It's kind of like bardic music...
Tolby 03-17-05, 11:35 AM	I love the marshell as a Cohort. Helping me and the rest of the party fight or do whatever while not taking the limelight from any of the main players.
Michael Tree 03-17-05, 12:03 PM	Or high-level spellcasters who find +12 to penetrate SR useful...or by their cohorts :) Helluva 1-level dip! Especially since it provides the weapon and armor proficiencies required for eldritch knight, spellsword, and runesmith, gives good skill points and HP at 1st level, and decent saving throws besides.
Kribage 03-17-05, 06:03 PM	I also don't have the Mini's book, and have seen the Marshal used a lot. When do they get the abilities that you guys list? Charisma to initiative seems strong. Besides skills, do they get Charisma to anything else? Any alignment restriction?
warok 03-17-05, 06:18 PM	Marshall is also located here as an excerpt: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b they get the abilities nearly all the time A marshal can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the marshal takes his first turn. cept for when... A marshal's aura is dismissed if he is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by his allies.
mr.unknown 03-17-05, 06:39 PM	all you would need is one LV of marshal to qualify you for quite a few fighter/mage combos. the determined spellcasting aura is awesome & will help your spells to affect a lot of creatures who has high SR. when you combine that with a caster who depends on CHA as their primary caster ability score, it gets even better. one good combo i found is: marshal 1/sor 6/eld. knight 1/spellsword 5/eld knight 7 more. take feats like pwr attack, arcane strike, maximize, fell drain/weaken, combat brute, etc. & you'd have one hell of a fighter/mage that really integrates spellcasting & fighting. & your channel spell class feature, & getting your hands on a spell storing weapon, & you could unleash some nasty combos.
ExaltedAbuse 03-17-05, 06:44 PM	So would it be best to go with a Sorcerer19/Marshal1 with leadership? Or just have your cohort be a Marshal to save your spellcasting? (I know this isn't optimal but you get the idea) And thanks for the info to everyone who responded :)
Zherog 03-17-05, 08:25 PM	Any PrC that grants full spellcasting is going to be better than going to level 19 in sorcerer. Any. Even if the abilities suck horribly, it's still more than you get with plain sorcerer levels.
Judging Eagle 03-17-05, 09:18 PM	Marshalls become a lot more potent when the party has more than one in the party. Since a marshall can't have more than one offensive/defensive aura up at anyone time two marshalls who take auras that give good synergestic major and minor auras (ex. mastery of opportunity for the AC vs AoOs to let your party to flank easier, then Master of Tactics to give Cha mod as extra damage while flanking, if one has the +1 to attack rolls major aura, and an other has the +1 to damage rolls major aura your entire party has gained a massive amount of power; they get +2 to +3 to their AC vs Attacks of Opp, +2 to +3 to their damage rolls when flanking then an additional +1 to all (i think it's melee only though) attack rolls at all times and an additonal +1 to all damage rolls (as well, i think melee only, you could take the ranged major aura instead if you have many ranged attack party members like my living greyhawk parties seem to have). Marshalls become very scary when you have more than one party member with two levels to give the party multiple buffs that run almost all the time (making them really crazy since they're the few continous type buffs in the game that I know of). If you have more than one party member who has enough levels to have the 'grant move action' ability and you've got a really speed-tricked gish (ie. expeditious assault* as well as haste, maybe a lvl of barb or some monk lvls and stride/springing boots) you can have your party able to completely outmanouver the opposition and make them have to react to you at every round. *: Expeditious Assault is what Gish use, Exp. Retreat is for cowardly wizards and sorcerers. :P For some reason I've got a real hankering to make a human barbarian/marshall for our living greyhawk party, i give out orders enough as it is at the table, so i might as well RP a char that fits the bill; plus we need a big smashing-stuff guy, we're really full of skill/buffs/ranged types, which makes us overpowered in some ways (we usually have 2-5 people who can roll for any knowledge check as low at lvl 1 and the other skills like spot/listenare pretty decent, it's the raw physical conan-type stuff that makes us fall short at times) but weak in the sort of straight up fights that LG commonly has.
ReBell48 03-17-05, 10:23 PM	played a marshal/bard/warchanter diplomacy monkey. I love the synergy you can get with marshall.
baoban sith 03-17-05, 11:38 PM	One level is wonderful for helping sorcerers qualify for multiple PrCs, in that the class also gets all knowledge skills as in class.
Kuroi Kenshi 03-18-05, 12:22 AM	Marshal is a totally great dip class. I think the major auras are mostly outdone by bards, though. I don't think a straight Marshal20 would be all that great, either. They'd stack up if they had the ability to do more auras at once at higher levels, but nope!
ShiverTheBard 03-18-05, 01:37 AM	Last week, I built a Marshal Killoren with a +14 Ini. at level 1. He had a 18 in Dex and Cha so he took Motivate Dexterity which gives Cha to Dex-skills and Ini. checks. Add +4 from Im. Ini., then with the Aspect of the Hunter from Killoren, that brought me to +14. Marshals are good for a 1, 2, 3, or 5 dip only to 5 if you want two of each aura for some versatility, otherwise I really like dropping out at 2 or 3. It's an interesting class that brings some cool abilities to the table.
Wayne 03-18-05, 01:44 AM	Yeah, only being able to use one aura at a time is probably the biggest drawback. Bards get that "lingering" effect whenever they switch Bardic music, and those five rounds are probably most of any given combat. But Marshals don't even have the option. :/ Anyway, I agree with the majority-- good NPC/Cohort class, but not really worth playing. They're barely arguably better than a Bard for buffing up as-is (and that mostly through using very high Charisma to boost "checks" that probably weren't intended, like Motivate Dexterity to boost the group's Initiative), and then they lack spellcasting and pretty much any synergy from any feats or PrCs. Bleh. I did have fun using a Marshal as the leader of a group of Dispater's "Iron Legion," a bunch of guys with Mercurial weapons and levels in Disciple of Dispater and Weapon Master-- the Marshal, of course, had Master of Tactics (bonus non-dice damage gets multiplied :]) and Accurate Strike, and Force of Will to cover up their one weak save. It was a very niche build, but pretty useful for the group he had. And that's the only way a Marshal can be good. :\