Are Shadowcasters worth it? (ToM) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are Shadowcasters worth it? (ToM) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Razail
04-06-06, 12:32 PM I have been looking through the ToM and it seems to me that Shadowcasters at low level's just cant do any damage. If this is an oversight please correct me but it seems as if they have great defensive and control abilites but no real way to survive until even mid levels.

I am acctually quite interested in using a combination of there abilites and some sort of melee build to pull of some excellent dickery but i just cant seem to figuare out how i would get them up to the levels i need to do that. Any ideas?
Dipteran_Legacy
04-06-06, 01:40 PM one way to get them through low levels is to start off a wizard or sorcerer, and the let your shadowcaster class begin to "eat" your arcane caster levels once you get up around five. another way is to take a level in fighter, and just use a bow for support.

I myself have a similar idea....umbral touch is quite nasty, if you "learn" it a few times
;)
Fanged Fremont
04-06-06, 03:13 PM I myself have a similar idea....umbral touch is quite nasty, if you "learn" it a few times
;)

Extended Maximized umbral touch is nice.
Richmud
04-06-06, 10:46 PM I've been thinking something like monk 2/shadowcaster 3/child of the night10 / 5 more shadowcaster interspered into the child for bonus feats

Should be a lot of fun with several umbral touchs and some flicker based fun.
Dipteran_Legacy
04-07-06, 02:51 AM Extended Maximized umbral touch is nice.

especially if its also empowered.... 45 garaunteed damage per hit? as well as save vrs slow? yes, please!

I've been thinking something like monk 2/shadowcaster 3/child of the night10 / 5 more shadowcaster interspered into the child for bonus feats

Should be a lot of fun with several umbral touchs and some flicker based fun

that's pretty much what I was thinking...maybe step into shdows, in case you really need to get up close & personal with a particular threat, or make a quick getaway.....

but why the monk? for the flurry? with umbral touch, you're considered "armed", regardless of whether or not you have improved unarmed strike.
Razail
04-07-06, 11:20 AM Is umbral touch a fundamental because if not how could you hope to get it enough to make it a consistent form of damage?
Doklahar
04-07-06, 01:01 PM I dont have my books on me, but I do recall that you can not empower and maximize a mystery. However, a mazimized Lifes Fade deals 30 nonleathal damage with a touch attack.
Richmud
04-07-06, 05:55 PM but why the monk? for the flurry? with umbral touch, you're considered "armed", regardless of whether or not you have improved unarmed strike.

Monk is for the flurry, I figure an extra attack would help a great deal, also the bonus feats won't hurt. Plus with kun fu genius you won't have to stretch your stats to much to get the ac benefit as well and practiced caster makes up for the lost caster levels
Dipteran_Legacy
04-07-06, 08:12 PM Is umbral touch a fundamental because if not how could you hope to get it enough to make it a consistent form of damage?

wait.....are you serious? it's in the first power tier, which means you can use it 3/day per time you've learned it. learning it anywhere from 6-10 times should be enough for reliable usage.

true, it takes a considerable amount of time to fully grow into this power, but it's a formidable and fairly unique character once you do.

I dont have my books on me, but I do recall that you can not empower and maximize a mystery

aw...I'm going to have to double check that. that would make me sad. I mean, if you can only use the meta-mysteries 1/day, why cant you at least use them together? :(

Monk is for the flurry, I figure an extra attack would help a great deal, also the bonus feats won't hurt. Plus with kun fu genius you won't have to stretch your stats to much to get the ac benefit as well and practiced caster makes up for the lost caster levels

true. I was thinking fighter would be nice, for the open feats & higher bab. of course, if you can figure some way to work the "skillful" property into your gear, then you dont have to worry about that, and the flurry would be much nicer. what's kung fu genius from, btw?
Dipteran_Legacy
04-08-06, 12:49 AM I checked the book, and didnt see anything on not being able to empower & maximize together....could someone point it out to me if I'm missing it?

grats in advance, in any case
FromTheShadows
04-08-06, 11:17 AM I checked the book, and didnt see anything on not being able to empower & maximize together....could someone point it out to me if I'm missing it?

grats in advance, in any case
Maximize Mystery along with Flood of Shadow allows this to work, but I'm not sure how exactly the two feats would interact.
Casting an empowered mystery is a full-round action.
Casting a maximized mystery is a full-round action.
If they both just set the time to a full-round action, this should work.

Also, to the OP: I do see your point in that damage is hard to do early on with a Shadowcaster, but once you hit 3rd level mysteries, you should be able to serve in a nuker role. A sample selection of how you could possibly do this can be found in the first post of another thread of mine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=614577).
Harry
04-08-06, 02:05 PM but why the monk? for the flurry? with umbral touch, you're considered "armed", regardless of whether or not you have improved unarmed strike.
"Flurry of Blows" => "Sun School" tactical feat
and
"Sun School" tactical feat + "Flicker" (a mystery) = once per round as an immediate action you can teleport and make a melee attack immediately!

Just imagine this:
-A barbarian charges you, when he becomes adjacent to you, as an immediate action you teleport behind his back, foil his charge (he can't attack you), and deliver a blow at his back!
-Whenever any enemy spellcaster within range starts casting a spell, as an immediate action you teleport next to him, get an AoO and a bonus Sun School attack, with two blows you have like 100% chance of interrupting his spell (especially if you use Stunning Fist)
Richmud
04-08-06, 02:13 PM what's kung fu genius from, btw?

Its from dragon magazine and was reprinted in the dragon compendium. It makes many of the wis based monk abilities int based instead

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Razail 04-06-06, 12:32 PM	I have been looking through the ToM and it seems to me that Shadowcasters at low level's just cant do any damage. If this is an oversight please correct me but it seems as if they have great defensive and control abilites but no real way to survive until even mid levels. I am acctually quite interested in using a combination of there abilites and some sort of melee build to pull of some excellent dickery but i just cant seem to figuare out how i would get them up to the levels i need to do that. Any ideas?
Dipteran_Legacy 04-06-06, 01:40 PM	one way to get them through low levels is to start off a wizard or sorcerer, and the let your shadowcaster class begin to "eat" your arcane caster levels once you get up around five. another way is to take a level in fighter, and just use a bow for support. I myself have a similar idea....umbral touch is quite nasty, if you "learn" it a few times ;)
Fanged Fremont 04-06-06, 03:13 PM	I myself have a similar idea....umbral touch is quite nasty, if you "learn" it a few times ;) Extended Maximized umbral touch is nice.
Richmud 04-06-06, 10:46 PM	I've been thinking something like monk 2/shadowcaster 3/child of the night10 / 5 more shadowcaster interspered into the child for bonus feats Should be a lot of fun with several umbral touchs and some flicker based fun.
Dipteran_Legacy 04-07-06, 02:51 AM	Extended Maximized umbral touch is nice. especially if its also empowered.... 45 garaunteed damage per hit? as well as save vrs slow? yes, please! I've been thinking something like monk 2/shadowcaster 3/child of the night10 / 5 more shadowcaster interspered into the child for bonus feats Should be a lot of fun with several umbral touchs and some flicker based fun that's pretty much what I was thinking...maybe step into shdows, in case you really need to get up close & personal with a particular threat, or make a quick getaway..... but why the monk? for the flurry? with umbral touch, you're considered "armed", regardless of whether or not you have improved unarmed strike.
Razail 04-07-06, 11:20 AM	Is umbral touch a fundamental because if not how could you hope to get it enough to make it a consistent form of damage?
Doklahar 04-07-06, 01:01 PM	I dont have my books on me, but I do recall that you can not empower and maximize a mystery. However, a mazimized Lifes Fade deals 30 nonleathal damage with a touch attack.
Richmud 04-07-06, 05:55 PM	but why the monk? for the flurry? with umbral touch, you're considered "armed", regardless of whether or not you have improved unarmed strike. Monk is for the flurry, I figure an extra attack would help a great deal, also the bonus feats won't hurt. Plus with kun fu genius you won't have to stretch your stats to much to get the ac benefit as well and practiced caster makes up for the lost caster levels
Dipteran_Legacy 04-07-06, 08:12 PM	Is umbral touch a fundamental because if not how could you hope to get it enough to make it a consistent form of damage? wait.....are you serious? it's in the first power tier, which means you can use it 3/day per time you've learned it. learning it anywhere from 6-10 times should be enough for reliable usage. true, it takes a considerable amount of time to fully grow into this power, but it's a formidable and fairly unique character once you do. I dont have my books on me, but I do recall that you can not empower and maximize a mystery aw...I'm going to have to double check that. that would make me sad. I mean, if you can only use the meta-mysteries 1/day, why cant you at least use them together? :( Monk is for the flurry, I figure an extra attack would help a great deal, also the bonus feats won't hurt. Plus with kun fu genius you won't have to stretch your stats to much to get the ac benefit as well and practiced caster makes up for the lost caster levels true. I was thinking fighter would be nice, for the open feats & higher bab. of course, if you can figure some way to work the "skillful" property into your gear, then you dont have to worry about that, and the flurry would be much nicer. what's kung fu genius from, btw?
Dipteran_Legacy 04-08-06, 12:49 AM	I checked the book, and didnt see anything on not being able to empower & maximize together....could someone point it out to me if I'm missing it? grats in advance, in any case
FromTheShadows 04-08-06, 11:17 AM	I checked the book, and didnt see anything on not being able to empower & maximize together....could someone point it out to me if I'm missing it? grats in advance, in any case Maximize Mystery along with Flood of Shadow allows this to work, but I'm not sure how exactly the two feats would interact. Casting an empowered mystery is a full-round action. Casting a maximized mystery is a full-round action. If they both just set the time to a full-round action, this should work. Also, to the OP: I do see your point in that damage is hard to do early on with a Shadowcaster, but once you hit 3rd level mysteries, you should be able to serve in a nuker role. A sample selection of how you could possibly do this can be found in the first post of another thread of mine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=614577).
Harry 04-08-06, 02:05 PM	but why the monk? for the flurry? with umbral touch, you're considered "armed", regardless of whether or not you have improved unarmed strike. "Flurry of Blows" => "Sun School" tactical feat and "Sun School" tactical feat + "Flicker" (a mystery) = once per round as an immediate action you can teleport and make a melee attack immediately! Just imagine this: -A barbarian charges you, when he becomes adjacent to you, as an immediate action you teleport behind his back, foil his charge (he can't attack you), and deliver a blow at his back! -Whenever any enemy spellcaster within range starts casting a spell, as an immediate action you teleport next to him, get an AoO and a bonus Sun School attack, with two blows you have like 100% chance of interrupting his spell (especially if you use Stunning Fist)
Richmud 04-08-06, 02:13 PM	what's kung fu genius from, btw? Its from dragon magazine and was reprinted in the dragon compendium. It makes many of the wis based monk abilities int based instead