Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wraithcat* 10-28-06, 07:53 AM	Hiya, Simple question really. Are tripper's viable in the long term? I'm looking to put together a mage slayer and have decided to use the ToB for best results. The character is designed around combining both the Mageslayer (CArc) feat and the 3rd level Devoted Spirit Stance "Thicket of Blades". Essentially, the first prohibits any spellcaster from casting defensively, while the second allows an attack of opportunity against anyone moving (even 5 foot steps) within your threatened area. The theory is to charge into close range, and then wait for the caster to either move or cast. Doing either will result in an attack of opportunity, which would be taken as a trip attack, using the improved trip feat. Combat reflexes allows me to then make another attack of opportunity, when the poor sod tries to stand up. I've decided to take the Warblade, on account of its advantages both in regard to uncanny dodge and such, along with bonuses to flanking and AOO attacks. Of course, being the meat in the sandwich, the d12 hp will be good as well... However, while I can see it being useful at medium levels, I'm not so sure about the usefullness of tripping at higher levels. Is Improved Trip a good use of a feat, or are higher level critters just going to shrug off my feeble attempts at tripping? Thanks!!
Krieg 10-28-06, 08:14 AM	First, let's deal with that build. I see a hitch, and that's the fact that Warblades don't have access to Devoted Spirit. That can be solved, though, by a 2-level Crusader dip (your first stance, as I recall, must be a 1st-level stance) after at least 6 levels of Warblade. Alternatively, you could take a 1-level Crusader dip and burn a feat on Martial Stance, or you forgo the Crusader levels altogether and burn two feats on Martial Study and Martial Stance.
Wraithcat* 10-28-06, 08:57 AM	First, let's deal with that build. I see a hitch, and that's the fact that Warblades don't have access to Devoted Spirit. That can be solved, though, by a 2-level Crusader dip (your first stance, as I recall, must be a 1st-level stance) after at least 6 levels of Warblade. Alternatively, you could take a 1-level Crusader dip and burn a feat on Martial Stance, or you forgo the Crusader levels altogether and burn two feats on Martial Study and Martial Stance. Yup. The build is secure. I just didn't want to give a huge rundown on it until, I'd finalised it. I've already taken care of the DS manouver and stance through burning feats and through taking flaws to get the other feats I'll need for the build. Its one of the reason's I don't want to be burning yet another, if tripping isn't a tactic that will take me into higher levels.
LogicNinja 10-28-06, 09:09 AM	Quickened spells don't provoke AoOs, but there's nothing you can really do about that (other than readying an action instead of hitting on your turn).
dog45 10-28-06, 09:09 AM	Well, get high enough level and mages can make themself incorporeal, which renders your trip attempts useless.
Wraithcat* 10-28-06, 09:30 AM	Quickened spells don't provoke AoOs, but there's nothing you can really do about that (other than readying an action instead of hitting on your turn). Yup, plonking myself down in front of a mage with a quickend Shafting of Doom won't be much fun, but then again, at least I'll be forcing him to burn off some metamagic!
Subedei 10-28-06, 09:40 AM	There's a much better way to pick up those crossclass maneuvers - Master of the Nine! Yeah, I don't think tripping is really necessary for what you're trying to do. You want to stun, paralyze or daze them. How about a Monk2/Warblade9/Master of Nine 5? Round 1: Run up to them and initiate Avalanche of Blades and Stormguard Warrior, say you hit six times for +30. Activate White Raven Tactics on yourself. Round 2: Activate Decisive Strike (monk PHBII variant), Stunning Fist, and Raging Mongoose. Your bonus damage alone is 39x2(dicisive strike) and you have 5 attacks. If only 3 of those hit you're still doing 234 damage before the mage can even act. With a 1d8+3 weapon and 18 str that's 267 avrg on 3/5 hits. I think it's safe to say the mage is probably dead right now. On the offchance he isn't...AND he succeeds on his fortitude save to avoid stunning... Round2: *Mage attempts to dominate you, you activate Iron Heart Surge *Mage Attempts to cast any standard action spell, you pound him with Mage slayer *Mage casts a quickened teleport - Well, they got away, nothing you can really do about it but hey, they retreated and you won. In the likely event they did not succeed on their Fort save, you simply hit them with White Raven Strike to stun them without save and Dancing Mongoose for 2 more hits. Due to Master of Nine you'll probably do something like 1d8+16 for three attacks, that may very well be enough to finish them off right there. If not, hey, they're stunned until your next turn =) The important thing is that you say "Down and out" in an extremely arrogant tone when they fall to your inhumanly fast tornado of whirling death.