Are you able to break this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are you able to break this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ArochanoX
12-20-04, 03:39 PM Here's the class needed to be broken. It may have some grammar and other literal problems that may cause uncomprehension. Please, inform me if you find such mistakes.

Tell me how you break this class! What abilities need tweaking etc.

Here's the link:
Soulweaver (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=351932)

Good luck!
Mommy was an Orc
12-20-04, 04:41 PM A few problems:
Cast False Life(or any other way of gaining Temporary hit points). Subdual comes off of this first. Take a cohort who is a pure Bard and who can use Inspire Greatness each round.

Epic spellcasting is a power granted by gaining 18th level in the class - so if you take a prestige class, you've basically messed over your ability to cast 9th level spells once you hit 17th level compared to everyone else. In Epic, you're similarly toast either way(as an Epic mage, you don't really have any advantages and yet you can't cast Epic spells without costing yourself subdual damage...)
PhaedrusXY
12-20-04, 07:18 PM How to break the class: Cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. :P I made some comments in the original thread also.

Edit: I am pretty sure you could get your Spellcraft check high enough to cast that at 18th. The DC is only 50, heh.

Starting Int 18 +2race+5inherent+4leveling=35, bonus +12

Spellcraft ranks 21. +2 synergy from Know: Arcane, Skill Focus +3, some feat that gives +2 to Know: Arcane and Spellcraft (I'm sure there is one somewhere).

That's a +38 total bonus so far. Only need to roll a 12, and I haven't even added in a magic item with a bonus on it yet. You can make those with up to a +30 bonus, in theory.

So yes, a character with this class could cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. Go look at the spell in the Epic Handbook, then look at the monster it summons. It is absolutely horrendous.
incubus
12-20-04, 08:12 PM How to break the class: Cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. :P I made some comments in the original thread also.

Or cast any one of the DC 0, time to research 0 epic spells that are possible.

In short - epic spells are broken. Introducing them into the base game breaks it too.

Beyond that - troll. Woot. regeneration 5 gives you back 5 points of subdual each round, and is not magical. 3rd level spells all day every day. 5th level spells go off at 2 per 3 rounds.
ArochanoX
12-21-04, 05:28 AM Beyond that - troll. Woot. regeneration 5 gives you back 5 points of subdual each round, and is not magical. 3rd level spells all day every day. 5th level spells go off at 2 per 3 rounds.

Woot!! Couldn't see that coming. It may be a poor wording for a poor ability, but how about this:

The subdual damage lasts until rested. It can't be magically cured or prevented, regenerated or fast healed.

How to break the class: Cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. I made some comments in the original thread also.
SRD:
To Develop: 450,000 gp; 9 days; 18,000 XP. Seed: summon (DC 14). Factors: summon CR 31 creature (+58 DC), allow creature to possess body and act at its own discretion (ad hoc –20 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC). Mitigating factors: 12d6 backlash (–12 DC), burn 1,000 XP (–10 DC).

How many lvl 18 characters have 450 000gp? And 11d6 subdual + 12d6 backslash for uncontrollable monster is a really bad combo. See orginal post for more.

Cast False Life(or any other way of gaining Temporary hit points). Subdual comes off of this first. Take a cohort who is a pure Bard and who can use Inspire Greatness each round.

Gives temp. hp? I guess "can't be prevented or magically healed" counts that in. If doesn't I'll make it count that in :D

so if you take a prestige class, you've basically messed over your ability to cast 9th level spells once you hit 17th level compared to everyone else.

Maybe making the epic spell casting and extra epic slot part of soulweaver's casting progression so you'd get them by using prcs.

In Epic, you're similarly toast either way(as an Epic mage, you don't really have any advantages and yet you can't cast Epic spells without costing yourself subdual damage...)

Maybe, but one epic slot more than others at same level could fix that out?
PhaedrusXY
12-21-04, 10:15 AM How many lvl 18 characters have 450 000gp? And 11d6 subdual + 12d6 backslash for uncontrollable monster is a really bad combo. See orginal post for more.I'm sure there are some with 450,000 gp. That's not my problem. ;) The fact that the monster is uncontrollable doesn't matter. The caster dissappears while it's summoned, and only reappears after the monster leaves. So the caster doesn't have to worry about what the monster will do to him, except for the fact that it might leave him somewhere nasty.

The fact that it is even possible to do it is what is messed up. If the caster is really concerned about not having enough gold to develop the spell, then he can lower the Spellcraft DC by burning more experience, having other casters contribute, etc.

The most insane thing about the creature summoned by that spell is that everyone seeing it has to make a DC 43 Will save or DIE, and there is no range limit except line of sight. So if the caster walks into the BBEG's castle and casts that, probably just about everyone in there will be dead when he gets back after the summoning. There is absolutely no way I'd ever give a PC any chance at casting something like this pre-epic, heh. The Epic spellcasting rules are pretty broken even in epic levels, in my opinion.
ArochanoX
12-21-04, 02:25 PM I'm sure there are some with 450,000 gp.

Yeah. But I don't care about that cause I can't. Anything breaks if you just get 200 000gp more than you should. It's like giving a lvl 1 party +5/+5 keen/keen flaming/frost electric/corrosive adamantine double scimitar.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ArochanoX 12-20-04, 03:39 PM	Here's the class needed to be broken. It may have some grammar and other literal problems that may cause uncomprehension. Please, inform me if you find such mistakes. Tell me how you break this class! What abilities need tweaking etc. Here's the link: Soulweaver (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=351932) Good luck!
Mommy was an Orc 12-20-04, 04:41 PM	A few problems: Cast False Life(or any other way of gaining Temporary hit points). Subdual comes off of this first. Take a cohort who is a pure Bard and who can use Inspire Greatness each round. Epic spellcasting is a power granted by gaining 18th level in the class - so if you take a prestige class, you've basically messed over your ability to cast 9th level spells once you hit 17th level compared to everyone else. In Epic, you're similarly toast either way(as an Epic mage, you don't really have any advantages and yet you can't cast Epic spells without costing yourself subdual damage...)
PhaedrusXY 12-20-04, 07:18 PM	How to break the class: Cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. :P I made some comments in the original thread also. Edit: I am pretty sure you could get your Spellcraft check high enough to cast that at 18th. The DC is only 50, heh. Starting Int 18 +2race+5inherent+4leveling=35, bonus +12 Spellcraft ranks 21. +2 synergy from Know: Arcane, Skill Focus +3, some feat that gives +2 to Know: Arcane and Spellcraft (I'm sure there is one somewhere). That's a +38 total bonus so far. Only need to roll a 12, and I haven't even added in a magic item with a bonus on it yet. You can make those with up to a +30 bonus, in theory. So yes, a character with this class could cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. Go look at the spell in the Epic Handbook, then look at the monster it summons. It is absolutely horrendous.
incubus 12-20-04, 08:12 PM	How to break the class: Cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. :P I made some comments in the original thread also. Or cast any one of the DC 0, time to research 0 epic spells that are possible. In short - epic spells are broken. Introducing them into the base game breaks it too. Beyond that - troll. Woot. regeneration 5 gives you back 5 points of subdual each round, and is not magical. 3rd level spells all day every day. 5th level spells go off at 2 per 3 rounds.
ArochanoX 12-21-04, 05:28 AM	Beyond that - troll. Woot. regeneration 5 gives you back 5 points of subdual each round, and is not magical. 3rd level spells all day every day. 5th level spells go off at 2 per 3 rounds. Woot!! Couldn't see that coming. It may be a poor wording for a poor ability, but how about this: The subdual damage lasts until rested. It can't be magically cured or prevented, regenerated or fast healed. How to break the class: Cast Lord of Nightmares at level 18. I made some comments in the original thread also. SRD: To Develop: 450,000 gp; 9 days; 18,000 XP. Seed: summon (DC 14). Factors: summon CR 31 creature (+58 DC), allow creature to possess body and act at its own discretion (ad hoc –20 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC). Mitigating factors: 12d6 backlash (–12 DC), burn 1,000 XP (–10 DC). How many lvl 18 characters have 450 000gp? And 11d6 subdual + 12d6 backslash for uncontrollable monster is a really bad combo. See orginal post for more. Cast False Life(or any other way of gaining Temporary hit points). Subdual comes off of this first. Take a cohort who is a pure Bard and who can use Inspire Greatness each round. Gives temp. hp? I guess "can't be prevented or magically healed" counts that in. If doesn't I'll make it count that in :D so if you take a prestige class, you've basically messed over your ability to cast 9th level spells once you hit 17th level compared to everyone else. Maybe making the epic spell casting and extra epic slot part of soulweaver's casting progression so you'd get them by using prcs. In Epic, you're similarly toast either way(as an Epic mage, you don't really have any advantages and yet you can't cast Epic spells without costing yourself subdual damage...) Maybe, but one epic slot more than others at same level could fix that out?
PhaedrusXY 12-21-04, 10:15 AM	How many lvl 18 characters have 450 000gp? And 11d6 subdual + 12d6 backslash for uncontrollable monster is a really bad combo. See orginal post for more.I'm sure there are some with 450,000 gp. That's not my problem. ;) The fact that the monster is uncontrollable doesn't matter. The caster dissappears while it's summoned, and only reappears after the monster leaves. So the caster doesn't have to worry about what the monster will do to him, except for the fact that it might leave him somewhere nasty. The fact that it is even possible to do it is what is messed up. If the caster is really concerned about not having enough gold to develop the spell, then he can lower the Spellcraft DC by burning more experience, having other casters contribute, etc. The most insane thing about the creature summoned by that spell is that everyone seeing it has to make a DC 43 Will save or DIE, and there is no range limit except line of sight. So if the caster walks into the BBEG's castle and casts that, probably just about everyone in there will be dead when he gets back after the summoning. There is absolutely no way I'd ever give a PC any chance at casting something like this pre-epic, heh. The Epic spellcasting rules are pretty broken even in epic levels, in my opinion.
ArochanoX 12-21-04, 02:25 PM	I'm sure there are some with 450,000 gp. Yeah. But I don't care about that cause I can't. Anything breaks if you just get 200 000gp more than you should. It's like giving a lvl 1 party +5/+5 keen/keen flaming/frost electric/corrosive adamantine double scimitar.