Arena Fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arena Fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PancakeZipper
04-27-06, 03:02 PM So... Does any one have any really good character ideas for fighting agaisn't other players in like an arena type fighting?
Arem_K
04-27-06, 03:36 PM You are really going to have to provide more details if you want any help. Generally, it is seen as important to supply your own build first and then have it critiqued. Bare minimum, you are going to have tell us at what level this arena fight is taking place, and whether or not prebuffing is allowed. The most common advice I hear for high level duels is to focus on intiative, because many character builds can end the match with the first stike.
deathwishjoe
04-27-06, 04:07 PM I second arem_k's statement. what books, how stats are alotted, things like that are needed before we can do a build for you. as for the initiative thing the best way to win initiative is to use the psionic power anticapatory strike. you essentially autowin initiative for one turn and then use whatever initiative you rolled for every other turn (unless you use the power again) but if psionics arent allowed then this is no good.
PancakeZipper
04-27-06, 05:50 PM Well, I'm we are all 7th level and my current guy is a (5)Rogue/(2)Assasin and his stats our

Strength: 16
Dex: 17
Con: 18
Wiz: 13
Char: 14
Intel: 13

Feats:
Weapon Prof: Greatsword/Whip
P.B. Shot
Steahtly

I'm a melee Rogue, that uses a greatsword(+1d6 firedamge) so I can tumble and get flanking, so I roughly get 7d6 every time I can get a sneak attack, I also have a cloak with Spider Climb on it, Ring of proc and Bracers of Proc.

Is this a good build and I just need a better strat or can I make him better?
RendakorRahn
04-27-06, 06:01 PM Questions:

Is this arena 1v1? If so, how do you plan to flank the opponent (or otherwise get sneak attack dmg)?

Whats changeable about your build? Is this something you're looking at tenatively, or have you been playing this up to now and are pretty much stuck with it?
Valanthe
04-27-06, 06:01 PM Switch dex and con. Initiative is your priority. Isn't an assassin's casting based on int? If that is the case, switch int and cha too.

Drop Weapon Proficiency: Whip for Improved Initiative (initiative is good). Drop Stealthy for Craven(more sneak attack damage is good). Drop Point Blank Shot for Weapon Focus, or at least something else. Arena fights don't yield many shots.

Or drop Stealthy and Point Blank Shot And Weapon Proficiency:Whip for Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. Get Boots of Springing and Striding and dance around your opponents.

Ring and Bracers of Protection(both armor bonuses, IIRC, otherwise ignore this comment) don't stack with each other. Change one to Deflection or get an Amulet of Natural Armor.

Get an item(vest) of Resistance. Spell casters are going to rough, especially with a low will save.

Get some wands and UMD your enemy. If it's a solo fight, Hold Person, Silence and Ray of Enfeeblement help against other low save characters, casters, and melees respectively. Use the wand on the arena and just silence the entire place, or silence yourself. Don't actually try to silence them, don't waste the round.

Any idea what your opponents are going to be?
Gondoras
04-27-06, 06:13 PM Looks similar to a character I'm working on. It would've actually been more beneficial to switch Str and Int....actually, I'd have one of the 13's on Cha, but that's just me.
Apart from that he seems ok. Level 7 is pretty young, so he can only get better. If you have to be a level 7 character.....the only way you could improve him at this point would be better equipment. If I was making a level 7 in this competition, I'd go with a monk or paladin. A rogue will generally lose a one-on-one encounter with a fighter, but that paladin has healing ability, great BAB, and probably a very high AC. At level 10, when your guy is Rogue 5/Assassin 5, there's be a different story, though. Your guy would have some pretty nice spells going as well and could probably kill the paladin in one strike.
DegenerateElite
04-27-06, 07:06 PM Keep in mind that if you are using the core assassin spells only, the some of the best spells don't have any saves; True Strike, Feather Fall, Jump, Invisibility, Cat's Grace, Alter Self. If you plan on using spells like Poison, Modify Memory, or Sleep then you'll need the high Int.
Also, if you can use the Spell Compendium you might want it just for the extra spells per day.
PancakeZipper
04-27-06, 07:09 PM Its more of team battles and with the group I've been playing with its 3v3. And he was orginally for a normal Campgain, but we just have these little arena fights ever once inawhile, But thanks for all the help.
Sci
04-27-06, 07:12 PM Well, I'm we are all 7th level and my current guy is a (5)Rogue/(2)Assasin and his stats our

Strength: 16
Dex: 17
Con: 18
Wiz: 13
Char: 14
Intel: 13

Feats:
Weapon Prof: Greatsword/Whip
P.B. Shot
Steahtly

I'm a melee Rogue, that uses a greatsword(+1d6 firedamge) so I can tumble and get flanking, so I roughly get 7d6 every time I can get a sneak attack, I also have a cloak with Spider Climb on it, Ring of proc and Bracers of Proc.

Is this a good build and I just need a better strat or can I make him better?

With a rogue/assasin, your strongest point is your ability to sneak attack...something you can't do easily in a one-on-one fight without the right feats. Flanking is nice, but in an arena against other players, it's not likely...

Unless you get Improved Feint (requires Combat Expertise) and/or Flick of the Wrist (requires a light weapon and Quick Draw). I'd go for -both- since you don't need to make a check for Flick of the Wrist and it's a free action, and you can Feint more than one time unlike flick.

I second getting Craven, it's an awesome feat that really helps your sneak-attacks get more damage. Also, if you're gonna pick a feat to drop a proficiency on, don't waste it on greatsword...whip isn't bad, because it gives you bonuses to trip and disarm, but I wouldn't even go for that unless you're gonna get either Improved Trip or Improved Disarm, both of which require Combat Expertise to get into.

That would cover all four feats, yes, but on the plus side you can sneak attack EVERY ROUND which is really awesome. Sure a greatsword does more damage than a rapier, but not if you can sneak attack all the time! With quick-draw you can carry multiple weapon types, for whatever situation you need...a sickle for that first flick of the wrist, a rapier for your usual up-close stuff, a shortbow for hit and run, whatever suits your fancy...

I also agree with the guy who said switch dex and con...also max out your bluff so you can feint like crazy, which may require you switching your int and charisma...a higher int will help with your assasin spells too.

Another tactic is to burn the weapon proficiencies for two-weapons, cause sneak attack damage works with each hit, and you'll get much more overall damage that way than with a two-handed weapon. Two-handed is more for barbs and fighters than rogues. You won't be able to feint in the same round as a double-hit though, and it only works with flick of the wrist if you have two light weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PancakeZipper 04-27-06, 03:02 PM	So... Does any one have any really good character ideas for fighting agaisn't other players in like an arena type fighting?
Arem_K 04-27-06, 03:36 PM	You are really going to have to provide more details if you want any help. Generally, it is seen as important to supply your own build first and then have it critiqued. Bare minimum, you are going to have tell us at what level this arena fight is taking place, and whether or not prebuffing is allowed. The most common advice I hear for high level duels is to focus on intiative, because many character builds can end the match with the first stike.
deathwishjoe 04-27-06, 04:07 PM	I second arem_k's statement. what books, how stats are alotted, things like that are needed before we can do a build for you. as for the initiative thing the best way to win initiative is to use the psionic power anticapatory strike. you essentially autowin initiative for one turn and then use whatever initiative you rolled for every other turn (unless you use the power again) but if psionics arent allowed then this is no good.
PancakeZipper 04-27-06, 05:50 PM	Well, I'm we are all 7th level and my current guy is a (5)Rogue/(2)Assasin and his stats our Strength: 16 Dex: 17 Con: 18 Wiz: 13 Char: 14 Intel: 13 Feats: Weapon Prof: Greatsword/Whip P.B. Shot Steahtly I'm a melee Rogue, that uses a greatsword(+1d6 firedamge) so I can tumble and get flanking, so I roughly get 7d6 every time I can get a sneak attack, I also have a cloak with Spider Climb on it, Ring of proc and Bracers of Proc. Is this a good build and I just need a better strat or can I make him better?
RendakorRahn 04-27-06, 06:01 PM	Questions: Is this arena 1v1? If so, how do you plan to flank the opponent (or otherwise get sneak attack dmg)? Whats changeable about your build? Is this something you're looking at tenatively, or have you been playing this up to now and are pretty much stuck with it?
Valanthe 04-27-06, 06:01 PM	Switch dex and con. Initiative is your priority. Isn't an assassin's casting based on int? If that is the case, switch int and cha too. Drop Weapon Proficiency: Whip for Improved Initiative (initiative is good). Drop Stealthy for Craven(more sneak attack damage is good). Drop Point Blank Shot for Weapon Focus, or at least something else. Arena fights don't yield many shots. Or drop Stealthy and Point Blank Shot And Weapon Proficiency:Whip for Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. Get Boots of Springing and Striding and dance around your opponents. Ring and Bracers of Protection(both armor bonuses, IIRC, otherwise ignore this comment) don't stack with each other. Change one to Deflection or get an Amulet of Natural Armor. Get an item(vest) of Resistance. Spell casters are going to rough, especially with a low will save. Get some wands and UMD your enemy. If it's a solo fight, Hold Person, Silence and Ray of Enfeeblement help against other low save characters, casters, and melees respectively. Use the wand on the arena and just silence the entire place, or silence yourself. Don't actually try to silence them, don't waste the round. Any idea what your opponents are going to be?
Gondoras 04-27-06, 06:13 PM	Looks similar to a character I'm working on. It would've actually been more beneficial to switch Str and Int....actually, I'd have one of the 13's on Cha, but that's just me. Apart from that he seems ok. Level 7 is pretty young, so he can only get better. If you have to be a level 7 character.....the only way you could improve him at this point would be better equipment. If I was making a level 7 in this competition, I'd go with a monk or paladin. A rogue will generally lose a one-on-one encounter with a fighter, but that paladin has healing ability, great BAB, and probably a very high AC. At level 10, when your guy is Rogue 5/Assassin 5, there's be a different story, though. Your guy would have some pretty nice spells going as well and could probably kill the paladin in one strike.
DegenerateElite 04-27-06, 07:06 PM	Keep in mind that if you are using the core assassin spells only, the some of the best spells don't have any saves; True Strike, Feather Fall, Jump, Invisibility, Cat's Grace, Alter Self. If you plan on using spells like Poison, Modify Memory, or Sleep then you'll need the high Int. Also, if you can use the Spell Compendium you might want it just for the extra spells per day.
PancakeZipper 04-27-06, 07:09 PM	Its more of team battles and with the group I've been playing with its 3v3. And he was orginally for a normal Campgain, but we just have these little arena fights ever once inawhile, But thanks for all the help.
Sci 04-27-06, 07:12 PM	Well, I'm we are all 7th level and my current guy is a (5)Rogue/(2)Assasin and his stats our Strength: 16 Dex: 17 Con: 18 Wiz: 13 Char: 14 Intel: 13 Feats: Weapon Prof: Greatsword/Whip P.B. Shot Steahtly I'm a melee Rogue, that uses a greatsword(+1d6 firedamge) so I can tumble and get flanking, so I roughly get 7d6 every time I can get a sneak attack, I also have a cloak with Spider Climb on it, Ring of proc and Bracers of Proc. Is this a good build and I just need a better strat or can I make him better? With a rogue/assasin, your strongest point is your ability to sneak attack...something you can't do easily in a one-on-one fight without the right feats. Flanking is nice, but in an arena against other players, it's not likely... Unless you get Improved Feint (requires Combat Expertise) and/or Flick of the Wrist (requires a light weapon and Quick Draw). I'd go for -both- since you don't need to make a check for Flick of the Wrist and it's a free action, and you can Feint more than one time unlike flick. I second getting Craven, it's an awesome feat that really helps your sneak-attacks get more damage. Also, if you're gonna pick a feat to drop a proficiency on, don't waste it on greatsword...whip isn't bad, because it gives you bonuses to trip and disarm, but I wouldn't even go for that unless you're gonna get either Improved Trip or Improved Disarm, both of which require Combat Expertise to get into. That would cover all four feats, yes, but on the plus side you can sneak attack EVERY ROUND which is really awesome. Sure a greatsword does more damage than a rapier, but not if you can sneak attack all the time! With quick-draw you can carry multiple weapon types, for whatever situation you need...a sickle for that first flick of the wrist, a rapier for your usual up-close stuff, a shortbow for hit and run, whatever suits your fancy... I also agree with the guy who said switch dex and con...also max out your bluff so you can feint like crazy, which may require you switching your int and charisma...a higher int will help with your assasin spells too. Another tactic is to burn the weapon proficiencies for two-weapons, cause sneak attack damage works with each hit, and you'll get much more overall damage that way than with a two-handed weapon. Two-handed is more for barbs and fighters than rogues. You won't be able to feint in the same round as a double-hit though, and it only works with flick of the wrist if you have two light weapons.