Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VanRiper 01-30-06, 04:56 PM	I'm in a 36 point buy gladiator style arena that allows gestalt (two classes/races/templates at a time). It allows any monster as long as it has or I can come up with a monster progression similar to the Savage species format. It allows templates, but it has to be paired with a class or monster level. The DM allows just about all 3.5 books (not 3.0 though or anything from dragon magazine or online). I'm looking for a damage dealing character that can be strong from low levels through high. It has to take into account fighting against invisible and flying creatures. If anyone has any ideas, let me know. Oh, 1 buff round allowed per fight. So far, I came up with a half-orc/black half-dragon psychic warrior - focusing on charging and defense.
deathwishjoe 01-30-06, 05:12 PM	I dont know how many levels we have to work withhere but a ghost sorcerer paladin works pretty well. if you dont want to be good you can go with hexblade and blackguard.
VanRiper 01-30-06, 05:17 PM	We start at level 1/1 and move up from there as high as we can go by challenging other characters to battles.
ksbsnowowl 01-30-06, 08:53 PM	Neraph (Planar HB) Rogue1//Barbarian 1 with the feat Craven (Champions of Ruin). Later on down the road you'll want to invest some levels in Ranger (for TWF), and you'll want to pick up the Snow Tiger Berserker feat (Unapproachable East/ modified to 3.5 in Player's Guide to Faerun [just lost its status as a Regional feat]). By level three you could be charging foes and denying them their Dex to AC (Neraph Racial Ability), thus allowing sneak attack, and making a full attack on that charge (including TWF), and gaining damage to sneak attack equal to your character level. Alternatively, and probably better.... Start as a human Druid 1//Barbarian 1, and shoot for a similar effect, staying druid 20 on one side and picking up the Neraph Charge feat.
VanRiper 01-31-06, 12:12 AM	How can I pick up the Neraph charge feat if I'm a human druid/barb? Wouldn't I have to be a Neraph?
ksbsnowowl 01-31-06, 11:00 AM	The Neraph Charge feat allows others to emulate the Neraph's racial ability to perform a charge that denies the target its Dex bonus to AC. The feat has a prereq of 5 ranks in Knowledge: The Planes, and a Wisdom of 15. If you are a Druid, you should have the Wisdom taken care of, and a one-level dip into Wizard or some type of caster PrC on the other side could net you the ranks you need to be able to take the feat before 7th level. Come to think of it, it would be more feat-friendly to take your first level in Rogue, though that does cut down on your HP's. Perhaps something along these lines: Human 1 Druid//Rogue - Craven, Power Attack 2 Druid//Barbarian 3 Druid//Wizard - Neraph Charge 4 Druid//Fighter - Snow Tiger Berserker From there you could start taking Ranger levels for TWF and Track, or you could just take another fighter level to pick up TWF (assuming you have the Dex). But from here on out, I'd try to maximize your combat prowess with warrior levels of some sort. A level of Tactical Soldier from the MiniHB is always good for this type of character, as it makes flanking much, much easier. And with your Druid spells you can summon your own flanking buddies, giving you that nice damage boost from Sneak Attack and Craven more often. It may be worth-while to hold off on Snow Tiger Berserker until you actually have more than one attack, thus Ranger levels may be warranted before the fighter level and STB. Human 1 Druid//Rogue - Craven, Power Attack 2 Druid//Barbarian 3 Druid//Wizard - Neraph Charge 4 Druid//Ranger - Track 5 Druid//Ranger - TWF 6 Druid//Fighter - Natural Spell, Snow Tiger Berserker I can see it now, once you hit 3rd level, you spend a buffing round to cast True Strike, and then you charge into your foe, wielding your greatsword, denying him his Dex to AC, thus getting +1d6+3, and dumping your two points of BAB into Power Attack, gaining another 4 damage. You'd get an attack bonus of +20, and deal 3d6 +7 +[1.5 str]. That's actually not too shabby. Alternatively, spend that buffing round summoning a buddy to help you flank.
VanRiper 01-31-06, 11:30 AM	Thanks kspsnowowl - Anymore massive damage dealing builds from anyone that I can credit you for at the arena :) I had read somewhere on this board that a goliath can qualify for some dwarven prestige classes, so I was thinking: goliath barb 2/fighter 2/stoneblessed 3/deepwarden2/dwarven paragon 3 Get mountain rage and DR from the substitution levels for a goliath barb ad wield a greathammer. Just a thought I had copied from the board a little while ago.
Jaisin 01-31-06, 12:40 PM	Human Flaw(Murky Eyed), Flaw (Shaky) Monk 1//Fighter 1 (Improved Unarmed Strike*, Stunning Attack*, Jotunbrud; Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty; Dodge, Improved Natural Attack; Nymph's Kiss**) Monk 2//Fighter 2 (Combat Reflexes*, Combat Expertise*; Touch of Golden Ice**) Monk 3//Fighter 3 (Karmic Strike) Monk 4//Fighter 4 (Two-Weapon Fighting*; Sanctified Natural Attack**) Monk 5//Fighter 5 Monk 6//Fighter 6 (Improved Trip*, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*; Sanctified Ki Strike**) Monk 7//Fighter 7 Monk 8//Fighter 8 (Double Hit*; Holy Ki Strike**) Monk 9//Fighter 9 (Knock-down) Monk 10//Fighter 10 (Improved Grapple*; Fist of the Heavens**) Monk 11//Fighter 11 Monk 12//Fighter 12 (Sun School Monk; Greater Two-Weapon Fighting*; Exalted Spell Resistance**) Monk 13//Fighter 13 Monk 14//Fighter 14 (Clever Wrestling*; Exalted Feat) Monk 15//Reaping Mauler 1 (Power Attack) Monk 16//Reaping Mauler 2 (Exalted Feat) Monk 17//Reaping Mauler 3 Monk 18//Reaping Mauler 4 (Deft Opportunist; Exalted Feat) Monk 19//Reaping Mauler 5 Monk 20//XXX 1 (Exalted Feat) *-Bonus Feat **-Bonus Exalted Feat Very combat oriented, very feat heavy. Really, tops out around level 9, anything after that can be changed. At level 9, if you're hit, you make 2 AoO's (Karmic Strike, Double Hit), if any does more than 10 damage, you get a free trip attempt (Knock-down) and a follow-up attack (Improved Trip). Each of your attacks has a ravage ability (Touch of Golden Ice, stops being useful around level 6, but hey, it could be helpful anyway), and if you throw in Deft Opportunist Earlier in the build, you'll gain a +4 to hit on all of your AoO's (effectively negating the benefits of Mobility for your enemies). Jotunbrud and Improved Natural Attack increase your unarmed damage by 2 sizes, giving you a better chance to induce a Knock-down during normal combat. If you really want to make it nasty at level 1, drop Nymph's Kiss and replace with Touch of Golden Ice and Dodge with Two-Weapon Fighting. Flurry and you'll have 3 attacks, each dealing 2d6 (Jotunbrud and Improved Natural Attack)+Str+Touch of Golden Ice (DC 14, 1d6 Dex on contact, 2d6 Dex 1 minute later vs. evil creatures) all on the first day with no buffing required. A Strength of 18 would make the attacks all +0/+0/+0, giving you an even chance of striking most 1st level classes, and killing most of them in 1 round (with average rolls). The Fighter levels obviously give maximum BAB progression and higher hp for survivability. I'd probably dump the Fighter class altogether after level 4, if you can find a suitable replacement. Monk 20//Fighter 4/XXBAB+1/Reaping Mauler 5/Kensai 10 avoids the VoP magical weapons restriction, and you then have magical fists of speed and other fun attributes. If your DM allows you to, and you want to pursue this build, see if you can take both Jotunbrud and Knifefighter (PGtF). At level 11, with Sun School Monk, you'll be able to d-door beside someone, and then immediately engage in a grapple. The next round, you still have them in grapple, but can greater flurry without any penalties (Knifefighter), and with a TWF progression you'll have somewhere in the neighborhood of 6+ attacks on a prone opponent who can do nothing but make an opposing grapple check (and even if he wins, you still get your attacks thanks to Knifefighter; included with Knockdown and Double Hit, he's not getting up; oh yeah, each attack deals 3d8+Str+Touch of Golden Ice if evil) Happy killing :dancin:
VanRiper 01-31-06, 12:51 PM	Very nice :) Two questions off the top of my head - 1. What book has Jotunbrud? 2. Since the build is centered around grappling, would it be better to go with a powerful-build type race (like goliath for example) to get that extra +4 to the grapple?
ksbsnowowl 01-31-06, 01:17 PM	Very nice :) Two questions off the top of my head - 1. What book has Jotunbrud?Jotunbrud is from Races of Faerun 2. Since the build is centered around grappling, would it be better to go with a powerful-build type race (like goliath for example) to get that extra +4 to the grapple?Jotunbrud already gives you that. It gives you several of the bonuses from Powerful Build (allowing you to count as large for opposed checks, etc), but does not allow you to wield larger weapons.
Jaisin 01-31-06, 02:24 PM	Ahhhhhh yes. Upon review, it (Jotunbrud)would certainly be better for a grappler, but I did make a mistake in the Larger weapons category - only Improved Natural Attack will increase your damage that early. So the attacks would look like this: +1/+1/+1 (BAB +1, Str +4, -2 TWF, -2 Flurry), 1d8+4+Touch of Golden Ice vs. Evil, 20/x2. Still, not too shabby. If you want to drop flurry, your attacks would be a respectable +3/+3, damage remaining the same. Oh, and wear wizard robes and a floppy hat; melee types will want to close quickly, especially at lower levels - hoping for an easy kill.
VanRiper 01-31-06, 03:07 PM	I believe Races of Faerun is a 3.0 book and the DM said (and I posted in my first post) that 3.0 books are not allowed. Only 3.5. In that case, I'm thinking Goliath or half-giant or something - or do you have something else that would work better :)
Jaisin 01-31-06, 04:13 PM	*Shrug* Jotunbrud is non-essential to the build anyway. Find ways to fit in the following: Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk Bonus Feat) Power Attack Weapon Focus (Light Mace) Two-Weapon Fighting Improved Trip (Monk Bonus Feat) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Combat Reflexes (Monk Bonus Feat) Knock-down Double Hit Roundabout Kick Power Critical Improved Critical Deft Opportunist Karmic Strike Lightning Mace Style Change the latter part of the build to Shou Disciple from PGtF (3.5) so that your Monk can flurry with the Light Maces. Results: As above, -4 to your AC (Karmic Strike) to get 2 attacks at full BAB +4on an AoO (Double Hit, Deft Opportunist), plus a free trip attempt and follow up strike at the same BAB if you deal at least 10hp in damage (Knock-down, Improved Trip). If you threaten a critical with your mace- you get another attack (Lightning Mace Style), when rolling for the threat to confirm the critical you add +4 to the roll (Power Critical), and if you confirm the critical you get yet another attack (unarmed strike) at the same BAB (Roundabout Kick). Oh. And then its your turn. So assuming you get hit, you get 2 attacks +1 after the trip, +1 assuming a critical threat, +1 assuming the critical is confirmed. That's 5 attacks when you get hit. On your turn, flurry. At 4 attacks per round and gtwf (if you can manage it, and two light maces of speed) you'll end up with a minimum of +16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 and +16/+16/+11/+6 (not including bonuses or penalties, and a base BAB of +16). If any attack scores more than 10hp, follow the course above; if any threated criticals, add another attack; if any criticals are confirmed add yet another attack. The progress would be awkward, but functional. If you can get your DM to allow a similar style with scimitars. . . then you're on the fast track to success. I think I've mananged to beat a dead horse. :) yay me. There is a thread here on feat combos that gives the basic Double hit, Knockdown, Karmic Strike goodness. I think I came up with the rest, but I want to give credit where credit is due. EDIT: Add in Weapon Finesse, Dodge, and Agile Riposte, and you don't have to worry about being struck in melee - even if the opponent misses with one of his attacks, Agile Riposte will allow the rest of the dominos to fall.
Khazra Reborn 01-31-06, 04:57 PM	Am i right in thinking you can take a monstrous progression as half you character? i was unsure from your 1st post...? If you can, i would. Simply for the reason that you rarely get to play a big creature in most games....oh, and the possibility of disgusting stat modifiers :D I personally am a fan of the marrusault from sandstorm because you get pretty sweet bonuses for relatively few levels invested. Any large race up to ECL10/warhulk10 is pretty sweet with anything on the other side that has 16 BaB. Valenar elf werebear(9IIRC)/warshaper3/warhulk 8 with ranger3/fighter2/revenantblade5/dervish10 is an awesome build. 14 attacks ina round with 1.5*str mod to damage with each is pretty sweet (especially as you can easily reach 60 str).
VanRiper 01-31-06, 05:26 PM	Yes, you can take a monstrous progression as half the character. Warhulk isn't allowed because it's from a 3.0 book (I believe - but could be wrong). Where is revenant blade from? Thanks for the ideas everyone :)
ksbsnowowl 02-01-06, 10:54 PM	Warhulk isn't allowed because it's from a 3.0 book (I believe - but could be wrong). Indeed you are wrong. Warhulk is from the Miniatures Handbook, a wholly 3.5 invention.
VanRiper 02-02-06, 03:29 AM	I sit mistaken :) Now, can anyone tell me where revenant blade is from?
ksbsnowowl 02-02-06, 11:39 AM	I sit mistaken :) Now, can anyone tell me where revenant blade is from?I'm not positive, but I think I saw it mentioned that it is from the Player's Guide to Eberron.
kraegor 02-02-06, 11:52 AM	Wouldn't a powerful build be something akin to maybe a Fighter/Monk type build but with something like.. Minotaur or Centaur as a base creature with Warhulk, Bear Warrior and Feral Template with VoP? Get huge bonus with 5 levels of bear warrior, and 5 levels of warhulk. End up with over 60 str, increased dice for claws, ability to improved grab, grapple, rend, fast healing 3, increased movement speed etc? Just my 2 cents for a arena built.
Jaisin 02-02-06, 01:47 PM	If you really want something frightening: Druid 20//Ranger 5/MoMF 7/Nature's Warrior 5/Warshaper 3 Druid 20//Monk 5/MoMF 7/Nature's Warrior 5/Warshaper 3 All the goodies of the Druid Progression, 20th level Druid spellcasting (7th level Ranger spellcasting, not that it matters), +16 BAB (IIRC, with the Ranger Build), 20th level Wildshaping, 3 nature's armament (possible DR 3/-, +5 natural armor, fast healing 1), immunity to stunning, immunity to criticals, morphic reach, morphic weapons, +4 Str & Con in alternate forms. . . Not to mention all of the MoMF goodness. Druid 20//Monk 11/MoMF 7/Warshaper 2 Greater Flurry with your natural attacks, MoMF, Morphic Weapons, all the Druidic nonsense. :)