Armoring arcane casters: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armoring arcane casters: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
03-29-06, 06:33 PM I just wanted to sort of open a thread on the different approaches to armoring an arcane spellcaster. There are four approaches that I can think of:

1. "Ignore ASF in light armor" classes. Base classes that grant this include bards (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/bard.html), battle sorcerors (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#battle-sorcerer), war mages, and warlocks. Prestige classes that grant this to another arcane casting class include knight phantoms (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) and prestige bards (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedPrestige.html#prestige-bard). This can be boosted to medium armor with Battle Caster.

2. "Ignore ASF percentage" classes. Prestige classes that grant this include spellswords, suel arcanamachs, and rage mages.

3. "Armor? Who needs armor?" abilities. In addition to the obvious AC-granting spells like Mage Armor and Shield, there are possibilities here that include the monk (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monk.html)/sorceror (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/sorcerer.html) with the "Ascetic Mage" feat, who can add charisma as a bonus to AC.

4. "Somatic components? Who needs them?" abilities. This is an approach that allows spells to just be cast in any armor, no ifs or buts. Any arcane caster can use Still Spell to access to use this, but that metamagic can be expensive. The Runesmith avoids this with their runes, and the Geomancer can make his spells "semi-divine."

Thoughts? I find the first approach -- the "ignore ASF in light armor" -- to be the most appealing: it often requires no more than a 1-level prestige dip for existing classes and can be found with base classes as well. It's not going to allow someone in adamantine full plate to be effective, but for the amount of effort put into it, it doesn't seem bad.

I find the second approach to be poor: it often requires extensive caster-level loss to achieve significant ignore ASF gains. However, it seems to be a quite popular approach on the optimization board, with spellswords being a staple of gish builds. I am not much of an optimizer. Could someone explain the appeal?

The third approach is certainly possible. Doing it with a wizard is more diffiicult than with a sorceror, though: how to add intelligence to AC? The duelist prestige class can do this, but is limited by class levels, something a wizard can ill-afford since duelists don't add arcane casting levels.

The fourth approach is great if you can get it without bumping up your spell levels, but the geomancer requires three divine caster levels, and the runesmith must be dwarf: certainly viable, but constraining from a roleplaying point of view.
Pellanor
03-29-06, 06:43 PM The one thing with the % based method is that it doesn't require any feats (battle caster) and works well with Mithral Armour(-10% ASF) with the Twighlight Enhancment (-10% ASF). There's also a special material in the Arms and Equipment Guid that reduces ASF by 20%. Combine that with twighlight for a total of -30% means you only need a -10% from a class to completely ignore the ASF of Full Plate.
Rod Howard
03-29-06, 06:51 PM Besides, most people want Spellsword for its other abilities.
Since Complete Arcane came out, people can effectively mix in five Spellsword levels without a significant loss in spellcasting ability.
The ability to cast spells in armor is not the main reason to go Spellsword.
swanyusd
03-29-06, 06:59 PM The third approach is pretty easy to do with a wizard, it just costs you one feat: Carmendine monk. It gives you int to most of the monk stuff that requires wis. Perfect for wizzies.
pyro_cat
03-29-06, 07:47 PM There's always option five, similar to number four:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=472555

Just... cast these spells and don't even worry about it.
Kilo24
03-29-06, 10:02 PM The one thing with the % based method is that it doesn't require any feats (battle caster) and works well with Mithral Armour(-10% ASF) with the Twighlight Enhancment (-10% ASF). There's also a special material in the Arms and Equipment Guid that reduces ASF by 20%. Combine that with twighlight for a total of -30% means you only need a -10% from a class to completely ignore the ASF of Full Plate.

Don't bother with classes that reduce ASF unless you're getting it mainly for other abilities, such as full BAB. A +1 enhancement bonus to armor will probably be less costly than what you're sacrificing instead of that level: Making that Blended Quartz Twilight +1 full plate githcraft (-5% ASF, DMG2) and come with a thistledown suit (-5% ASF, RotW) completely negates the arcane spell failure. It weighs a great deal (100 lb), slows you down, and has a hefty armor check that you're probably not proficient with, so a better one could be the +1 twilight mithral githcraft masterwork mithral breastplate for no ASF, no armor check penalty, and as light armor, so you can sleep in it. It would cost 8,950 gp for +6 AC and +5 max dex bonus. A slighly better alternative to breastplate would be the tumbler's breastplate from Races of Stone, basically trading in 200 more gp for a further +1 to max dex.
fnord
03-29-06, 10:04 PM Or take that dwarf rune-class from RoS.
Timlagor
03-29-06, 11:32 PM Get yourself a mithral Buckler and some Thistledown Padded Armour.

ASF: 0%
ACP: 0 (non-proficient)
NO Feats: +4AC (+1 on each)

Then go to your spells for your AC because you only bought these to carry enchantments (Deathward and Fortification for preference usually).

Quick lists:

Items:
Ring of Protections (deflection)
Gloves of Dex
Amulet of NA (Health is probably better but the option is there)
Ioun Stones
...basically anything anyone else can wear.

AC Spells: -
Greater Mage Armour (+6)
Protection from Evil (+2 deflection against many enemies +benefits)
Alter Self (+6 NA)
Shield (+4)

The melee guys are going to have to go some way to beat this on armour + shield alone and there's a lot more to come

Other Defensive Spells (some short duration but anway):
- False Life (won't catch up no HP but closes the gap)
- Displacement
- Blur
- Mirror Image
- Invis (/Greater)
- Blink (/Improved)
- Stoneskin
- Resist Energy
- Fly (/Overland Flight)
- DDoor
- Contingency
...
There must be a way to go incorporeal...
..and that was just a quick note from memory.
You really don't want to be worrying about armour for AC.

Note on Spellswords:
Two main benefits (with the good casting obviously) are BAB and Spell Channeling -the ASF reduction is really just a nice bonus.
DBoot
03-30-06, 01:52 AM Ignore ASF in light armor + Halfweight (Underdark) is a viable option. Halfweight is a +3 ability, but you save yourself the trouble of mithral thistledown twilight etc... armor. Also, if you're proficient with light armor, you're proficient with Halfweight armor.
X-Codes
03-30-06, 02:22 AM Route 1 may be nice, but if you wear armor heavier than your ignore-armor ability it has no effect at all.

Route 2 always kicks in, no matter what.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 03-29-06, 06:33 PM	I just wanted to sort of open a thread on the different approaches to armoring an arcane spellcaster. There are four approaches that I can think of: 1. "Ignore ASF in light armor" classes. Base classes that grant this include bards (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/bard.html), battle sorcerors (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#battle-sorcerer), war mages, and warlocks. Prestige classes that grant this to another arcane casting class include knight phantoms (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) and prestige bards (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedPrestige.html#prestige-bard). This can be boosted to medium armor with Battle Caster. 2. "Ignore ASF percentage" classes. Prestige classes that grant this include spellswords, suel arcanamachs, and rage mages. 3. "Armor? Who needs armor?" abilities. In addition to the obvious AC-granting spells like Mage Armor and Shield, there are possibilities here that include the monk (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monk.html)/sorceror (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/sorcerer.html) with the "Ascetic Mage" feat, who can add charisma as a bonus to AC. 4. "Somatic components? Who needs them?" abilities. This is an approach that allows spells to just be cast in any armor, no ifs or buts. Any arcane caster can use Still Spell to access to use this, but that metamagic can be expensive. The Runesmith avoids this with their runes, and the Geomancer can make his spells "semi-divine." Thoughts? I find the first approach -- the "ignore ASF in light armor" -- to be the most appealing: it often requires no more than a 1-level prestige dip for existing classes and can be found with base classes as well. It's not going to allow someone in adamantine full plate to be effective, but for the amount of effort put into it, it doesn't seem bad. I find the second approach to be poor: it often requires extensive caster-level loss to achieve significant ignore ASF gains. However, it seems to be a quite popular approach on the optimization board, with spellswords being a staple of gish builds. I am not much of an optimizer. Could someone explain the appeal? The third approach is certainly possible. Doing it with a wizard is more diffiicult than with a sorceror, though: how to add intelligence to AC? The duelist prestige class can do this, but is limited by class levels, something a wizard can ill-afford since duelists don't add arcane casting levels. The fourth approach is great if you can get it without bumping up your spell levels, but the geomancer requires three divine caster levels, and the runesmith must be dwarf: certainly viable, but constraining from a roleplaying point of view.
Pellanor 03-29-06, 06:43 PM	The one thing with the % based method is that it doesn't require any feats (battle caster) and works well with Mithral Armour(-10% ASF) with the Twighlight Enhancment (-10% ASF). There's also a special material in the Arms and Equipment Guid that reduces ASF by 20%. Combine that with twighlight for a total of -30% means you only need a -10% from a class to completely ignore the ASF of Full Plate.
Rod Howard 03-29-06, 06:51 PM	Besides, most people want Spellsword for its other abilities. Since Complete Arcane came out, people can effectively mix in five Spellsword levels without a significant loss in spellcasting ability. The ability to cast spells in armor is not the main reason to go Spellsword.
swanyusd 03-29-06, 06:59 PM	The third approach is pretty easy to do with a wizard, it just costs you one feat: Carmendine monk. It gives you int to most of the monk stuff that requires wis. Perfect for wizzies.
pyro_cat 03-29-06, 07:47 PM	There's always option five, similar to number four: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=472555 Just... cast these spells and don't even worry about it.
Kilo24 03-29-06, 10:02 PM	The one thing with the % based method is that it doesn't require any feats (battle caster) and works well with Mithral Armour(-10% ASF) with the Twighlight Enhancment (-10% ASF). There's also a special material in the Arms and Equipment Guid that reduces ASF by 20%. Combine that with twighlight for a total of -30% means you only need a -10% from a class to completely ignore the ASF of Full Plate. Don't bother with classes that reduce ASF unless you're getting it mainly for other abilities, such as full BAB. A +1 enhancement bonus to armor will probably be less costly than what you're sacrificing instead of that level: Making that Blended Quartz Twilight +1 full plate githcraft (-5% ASF, DMG2) and come with a thistledown suit (-5% ASF, RotW) completely negates the arcane spell failure. It weighs a great deal (100 lb), slows you down, and has a hefty armor check that you're probably not proficient with, so a better one could be the +1 twilight mithral githcraft masterwork mithral breastplate for no ASF, no armor check penalty, and as light armor, so you can sleep in it. It would cost 8,950 gp for +6 AC and +5 max dex bonus. A slighly better alternative to breastplate would be the tumbler's breastplate from Races of Stone, basically trading in 200 more gp for a further +1 to max dex.
fnord 03-29-06, 10:04 PM	Or take that dwarf rune-class from RoS.
Timlagor 03-29-06, 11:32 PM	Get yourself a mithral Buckler and some Thistledown Padded Armour. ASF: 0% ACP: 0 (non-proficient) NO Feats: +4AC (+1 on each) Then go to your spells for your AC because you only bought these to carry enchantments (Deathward and Fortification for preference usually). Quick lists: Items: Ring of Protections (deflection) Gloves of Dex Amulet of NA (Health is probably better but the option is there) Ioun Stones ...basically anything anyone else can wear. AC Spells: - Greater Mage Armour (+6) Protection from Evil (+2 deflection against many enemies +benefits) Alter Self (+6 NA) Shield (+4) The melee guys are going to have to go some way to beat this on armour + shield alone and there's a lot more to come Other Defensive Spells (some short duration but anway): - False Life (won't catch up no HP but closes the gap) - Displacement - Blur - Mirror Image - Invis (/Greater) - Blink (/Improved) - Stoneskin - Resist Energy - Fly (/Overland Flight) - DDoor - Contingency ... There must be a way to go incorporeal... ..and that was just a quick note from memory. You really don't want to be worrying about armour for AC. Note on Spellswords: Two main benefits (with the good casting obviously) are BAB and Spell Channeling -the ASF reduction is really just a nice bonus.
DBoot 03-30-06, 01:52 AM	Ignore ASF in light armor + Halfweight (Underdark) is a viable option. Halfweight is a +3 ability, but you save yourself the trouble of mithral thistledown twilight etc... armor. Also, if you're proficient with light armor, you're proficient with Halfweight armor.
X-Codes 03-30-06, 02:22 AM	Route 1 may be nice, but if you wear armor heavier than your ignore-armor ability it has no effect at all. Route 2 always kicks in, no matter what.