Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cocolord 02-18-06, 11:28 PM	I am actually playing a level 2 sorcerer/fighter and I am wearing light armor. The arcane miss chance is not big, but still annoying, But I could hardly survive without a high AC due to low constitution. My question is: What low level spells do not have somatic components so that I won't spoil them? I already found true strike, but can't find any other. Is there a feat or something to reduce or eliminate the miss chance? Thanks in advance
X-Codes 02-19-06, 01:02 AM	It's called Spell Failure, not miss chance. The most commonly used method of ASF reduction is the Spellsword (CW) combined with Mithral armor (-10% ASF off each piece). You would probably want to take 5 levels in order to get the most out of it. Something like Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6/Spellsword 5/Eldrich Knight 8. As for other spells that don't have somatic components, I think maybe Fog Cloud, but thats it. There aren't many.
MechaboyDos 02-19-06, 01:24 AM	There's also the Twilight enhancement from Book of Exalted Deeds. And I think Rage Mage has a small amount of Ignore Arcane Spell Failure. But that's about it as far as Wizard/Sorcerer goes.
The_Rainbow_Ninja 02-19-06, 01:32 AM	a feat called battlecaster out of CW i think it takes away spell failure but doesnt give armor prof. but since your a fighter you are fine.
charlesatan 02-19-06, 01:33 AM	Various armor materials also reduce arcane spell failure. Other classes also allow you to wear light armor or even medium armor without spell failure. Arcane Heirophant (Races of the Wild) and Knight Phantom (Five Nations) is an example.
scrollreader 02-19-06, 01:33 AM	Twilight is also Eberron legal, since the latest series of eberron splats came out. (a generally less cheesy and provative source than BoED). other than that ... Still spell. (Twilight, Mithril Chain Short +1 is +5 AC, no ASF, and only 4100 GP)
X-Codes 02-19-06, 01:40 AM	Twilight is also Eberron legal, since the latest series of eberron splats came out. (a generally less cheesy and provative source than BoED). other than that ... Still spell. (Twilight, Mithril Chain Short +1 is +5 AC, no ASF, and only 5100 GP) Corrected the GP amount. And don't forget, mithral chain shorts are just as comfy as normal shorts. They keep the jewels much safer, too! :rolleyes: :P Ok... done with that. Twilight can also go on large mithral shields to neg that ASF too. Or, through a combination of Mithral Buckler, Twilight Mithral Fullplate, and 3 levels of Spellsword, you can be all decked out and there would be nothing the enemy can do about it.
Surreal 02-19-06, 01:49 AM	If you're a Dwarf, a level of Runesmith (Races of Stone) solves all your problems.
sneak_Blast 02-19-06, 01:49 AM	If you get still spell feat, you eliminate failure chance, but the spells u cast r 1 lvl higher. So... your choice.
anton1066 02-19-06, 01:51 AM	Dont forget the best gish class. RuneCaster lets you cast all your spells with out ASF. Do you happen to be a dwarf?
wuyanei 02-19-06, 02:12 AM	I am actually playing a level 2 sorcerer/fighter and I am wearing light armor. The arcane miss chance is not big, but still annoying, But I could hardly survive without a high AC due to low constitution. My question is: What low level spells do not have somatic components so that I won't spoil them? I already found true strike, but can't find any other. Is there a feat or something to reduce or eliminate the miss chance? Thanks in advance If you can wheedle your DM into allowing you to swap out your sorcerer levels for battle sorcerer, that would solve all your problems. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer If your DM forbids it, or if you are too proud to beg, then the best solution is to drop the armor and use wands of Mage Armor as your primary defense. 15 gp per hour of protection is actually rather cheap for a 3rd level character. Use the normal armor when you do not expect to need to cast spells, such as when you are travelling or walking down the street.
Kuroi Kenshi 02-19-06, 02:39 AM	There's a thread of no-somatic component spells on here somewhere. You can probably googlesearch it. It's also on at least one person's sig here. Also Githcraft is a special property you can add to your armor that reduces ASF by 5%. That adds some more cost to your armor, but it stacks with materials like mithral, IIRC.
Surreal 02-19-06, 04:14 AM	There's a thread of no-somatic component spells on here somewhere. You can probably googlesearch it. It's also on at least one person's sig here. I'm pretty sure you can find the link in my sig. edit: here you go: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=472555
Kuroi Kenshi 02-19-06, 06:56 AM	I'm pretty sure you can find the link in my sig. Oops, haha. You're the one I was thinking of. Sorry I missed your earlier post.
Cocolord 02-19-06, 11:52 AM	Thank you all, There are some very interesting spells in that other thread. For your information, I am human and specializing on archery, so the runemaster wouldn't work, but still, I'll look those prestige classes up when I have time.
Eidolon Faer 02-20-06, 10:31 AM	Spellsword 1 is a no-brainer dip for you. Look in Complete Warrior for it. And check out the Hexblade while you're there. Mithril Armor of Twilight will also allow considerable protection even with only a single spellsword level. If you were an Elf I could also suggest Bladesinger. Also from Complete Warrior. Another path you could try is the Argent Savant. With Greater Mage Armor and their class abilities their AC becomes quite impressive.
Kilo24 02-20-06, 12:15 PM	Two more things: Feycraft template for armor from DMG2: +500 gp for 5% less ASF. Less hit points and hardness though, but how many times have enemies tried to sunder armor? Living Metal from Magic of Faerun: +700/+2,000/+4,500 gp for light/medium/heavy armor for -1 armor check, Max Dex bonus +1, and -5% ASF. So you could grab a twilight living metal feycraft breastplate with your one level in spellsword for no ASF. I wouldn't suggest battle sorcerer. It's useful at low levels, but at higher, you'll have even less spell-choice diversity than a standard sorcerer. At a few levels, the extra point or two of BAB will grant you another attack, and the d8 hit dice will be nice, but it's not suggested that you stick long enough with sorcerer to make the changes worthwhile. Eldritch Knight + a level or three in Spellsword will be far better than the familiar upgrades from sorcerer, battle or standard. If you do take battle sorcerer, then the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcane could be a good investment, letting you wear up to medium armor with no ASF (mithral full plate, anyone?)
Bakrin 02-20-06, 12:17 PM	Breastplate = 25% spell failure, 4 check penalty Twilight =-10% spell failure (BoED) Mithral =-10% spell failure,-3 check penalty(DMG) feycraft = -5% spell failure,-1 check penalty(DMGII) ------------------------------------------------------- wizard's armor= 0% spell failure, 0 check penalty result: A straight wizard or sorc can now put on Breastplate without any proficiencies and use it without any chance of spell failure. Only weighs about 10 pounds, too :D
Tleilaxu_Ghola 02-20-06, 01:40 PM	If you have the cash, and a lenient DM, you could take the specific armor "celestial armor" from the DMG and make it mithril. The result is an armor that grants 5 + 3 AC bonus, 5% spell failure, 0 check penalty, and max +11 dex bonus. Of course changing the material makeup of specific armor is touchy, which is why you'll need DM approval. Changing it to mithril isn't too far-fetched though, as it is originally comprised of either gold or silver.
Ty 02-20-06, 04:03 PM	If you don't mind limiting yourself to 8th level spells eventually, I'd recommend a 2-level dip into the Knight of the Weave. They have their own unique spellcasting progression (which includes various clerical-type spells) but at 2nd level, they obtain Armored Casting (Light). Follow this up with the Battle Caster (Casting?) feat from Complete Arcane, which allows you to increase that by one armor category. At this point, you're casting in medium armor, which includes Mithril Full Plate. That's just one method of course...
SpartanMD 02-20-06, 04:32 PM	Breastplate = 25% spell failure, 4 check penalty Twilight =-10% spell failure (BoED) Mithral =-10% spell failure,-3 check penalty(DMG) feycraft = -5% spell failure,-1 check penalty(DMGII) ------------------------------------------------------- wizard's armor= 0% spell failure, 0 check penalty result: A straight wizard or sorc can now put on Breastplate without any proficiencies and use it without any chance of spell failure. Only weighs about 10 pounds, too :D You could substitute a thistledown coat from Races of the wild for the feycract and get near the same results.... ;)
Helcaraxe 02-22-06, 03:17 PM	I didn't notice it anywhere in this thread but warmage from Complete Arcane allows you to wear light armour without penalty, and as the class progresses you also receive this benefit for medium armour. Slap darkleaf to a set full plate armour and you're set once you get to level 6 or 8 (?) in the class.
Endar45 02-22-06, 06:07 PM	Sorcerer / fighters do make excellent "gish". Since you have already started the multiclassing process you might as well take it all the way and develop yourself into a fully optimized gish. One of the most standard gish builds is as follows: Sorcerer 4 / Fighter 2 / Spellsword 5 / Eldritch Knight 9 BAB +18, CL 15 For the purposes of spell effects, the feat "Practiced Spellcaster" will mitigate 4 levels, and an orange Ioun stone (30k gp) will bring you to an even CL of 20. The spellsword levels add 10% ignore arcane spell failure at level 7 eventually leading to 20% by level 11. (20% ISF makes you capable of donning Twilight Mithril Full Plate with no chance of fizzles) As a quick aside (since I saw you had already chosen sorcerer), this build works equally well with wizard depending on your style. Additional enhancements may be available depending on your race: **If you are human and your DM allows the Paragon levels from Unearthed Arcana, adding 3 levels of Human Paragon to the above build is a particularly nice enhancement. As stated above, Human Paragon (as well as the Elf Paragon for wizard builds) can be found in Unearthed Arcana. Sorcerer 2 / Fighter 1 / Human Paragon 3 / Spellsword 5 / Eldritch Knight 9 BAB +18, CL 15 This build incorporates all of the strengths of the above build (ie, BAB +18, sorcerer CL 15), but adds the Human Paragon class abilities. With this addition you gain one permanent class skill and a +2 enhancement to any ability score you choose. As another quick aside, an elf wizard could optimize the "standard" gish build by using wizard in place of sorcerer and Elf Paragon in place of Human Paragon. Again, it depends on style, though for gish with a CL of 15 or below I believe the higher spells-per-day of the sorcerer make it optimal without a strong INT synergy being present (see the bladesinger PrC below). **If you are dwarven, you can use the Runesmith PrC to attain fully-armored spellcasting by level 6. This build cuts the ability to channel spells and loses one point of BAB in favor of a higher caster level. There are two ways of using Runesmith: Full immersion followed by a return to normal sorcerer/wizard levels (or full spellcasting-progression PrC's), or a quick dip followed by other gish-friendly PrC's. Runesmith can be found in Races of Stone. For more complete spellcasting you may choose the following: Wizard 4 / Fighter 1 / Runesmith 5 / Wizard 5-14 BAB +10, CL 19 For a balanced (and versatile) gish build, you may lean towards: Wizard 4 / Fighter 1 / Runesmith 2 / Spellsword 3 / Eldritch Knight 10 BAB +17, CL 17 The former opts for fully-armored spellcasting with only a single level of interruption. By fully dipping into runesmith you also gain a few of the "neat" extras, such as sharable spells and a spell-like ability. The latter is thus far my favorite gish build, as it trades +3 BAB and 8 Fighter feats (Fighter, EK and SpS add 1 bonus feat, and fighters normally receive 11 bonus feats by 20) for 9th level spells by level 20. Should you specialize, you will end up with more combined spell-levels than the default gish build I listed above. Now, I realize that you had initially stated you were a sorcerer, which makes that particular PrC somewhat less ideal. You can, however, add the feat "Arcane Preparation" and take the runesmith PrC anyway. Be aware, however, that as a sorcerer, using runesmith to mitigate arcane spell failure chances means you are literally preparing your spells as runes. This means that you are choosing your spells at the beginning of the day just like a wizard would, except that, as a sorcerer, you have a comparatively tiny spell list. As such I would actually consider the "standard" build I listed at the top of the post to be a better option for most. If you do choose to use the runesmith PrC, I highly recommend you choose the "gish" build and add the feat "Arcane Strike" as a method of putting "mis-prepared" spells to use during battle (most gish builds, especially those that don't get the channel spell class ability from Spellsword, get that feat anyway). **If you are elvish, you can attempt to make use of the Bladesinger PrC. Builds incorporating the bladesinger tend to have somewhat lower caster levels than many other gish builds, but they also tend to have a very high BAB. Both the bladesinger and the swashbuckler can be found in Complete Warrior. Swashbuckler 3 / Fighter 1 / Wizard 2 / Spellsword 1 / Bladesinger 5 / Eldritch Knight 8 BAB +19, CL 13 The level of spellsword is added prior to the levels of bladesinger to provide 10% ignore spell failure for the build. Although it is possible to get a "no spell failure in light armor" ability from Bladesinger, that ability isn't added until level 6 in the bladesinger PrC, meaning another lost level of spellcasting and also meaning you'd have no ISF until at least level 11 (most normal gish builds add a minimum of 10% ISF by level 6 or so). Since bladesingers are lighter melee combatants, 10% ISF coupled with the build's terrific INT and DEX synergies means even light armor will keep this character well protected. I'll refrain from going further in depth regarding the bladesinger, however, since the OP had stated he was using sorcerer. Without the INT synergy this build incorporates, you would be sacrificing 2 additional caster levels over the standard gish for no real reason. For a final few thoughts, I'll make sure I point out that this entire post was more gish-focused (read, true fighter-wizard hybrid), and less focused on gaining caster levels at the cost of BAB. To that end, you could get 10% ISF and keep a sorcerer CL of 19 (ie, 9th level spells) by going Sorcerer 18 / Fighter 1 / Spellsword 1. A quick dip and you get enough ISF to wear some light armors with no annoying fizzles. On the other hand, you can usually use greater mage armor (or a Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt, as X-codes pointed out) to attain similar AC increases with no dips or caster level loss. My final suggestion? Either go full gish or use mage armor until you can afford to commission that Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt. If you opt to be more of a true hybrid, I recommend the "standard" build (or the standard + human paragon build if you're a human and UA is okay with your GM) listed at the top. Of the options I'm aware of, that is one of the better ones available for a sorcerer. Errata: @ The_Rainbow_Ninja: Battle Caster is a feat in Complete Arcane (not Complete Warrior), and it increases an existing arcane spell failure reduction. It will not add any additional ISF to a build that doesn't already have at least ISF - light as a class feature.
DrowSmurf 02-22-06, 06:13 PM	i will be playing a Sorc5 in an upcoming game and my uncle will be playing a Shugenja5 we are twins and we are elemental specialists... i use cold he uses fire... so we are going to confuse people by having my Mage wear all red and wear +1 Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt while he wears all blue and no armor... so i look like the fire cleric and he looks like the cold mage... so yea... twilight mithril chain mail is the best for arcane spellcasters without taking levels to lose caster levels... cause that sucks balls... can i say sucks balls? i hope i dont offend anyone... sorry
Rundor The Mighty 02-24-06, 08:31 AM	Are there more ways then just mithral to make armor have a higher max dex, such as an enhancement out there that adds to max dex maybe?
charlesatan 02-24-06, 09:33 AM	Are there more ways then just mithral to make armor have a higher max dex, such as an enhancement out there that adds to max dex maybe? Nimbleness armor property. Magic of Faerun.