Army of Gods [Archive] - Wizards Community

Army of Gods [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AhzRiael
10-31-06, 01:12 PM Some freinds and I came across an amazing possibility. The idea of infinite level ones, fighting a Great Wyrm, Terrasque, Ancient Ent Elder, or even just a god. Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. Well given this information we set up the following phased experiment. Let me know if were missing somthing drastic here so we can correct it before we look like morons. (Or maybe its too late.)

Cloytered Cleric, with and ungodly amount of charisma and the Leadership feat. He gets say 30 cohorts, and all of them get the leadership feat. they may not be able to attract anyone just yet because of the restrictions but its important for future refence. They also get maxed in charisma, and make them human paladins. The paladins cast charisma boost on the cleric who uses that effect to grab more cohorts.

The Paladins now rush the massive dragon, or whatever sitting there and beign to wail upon it, almost certainly dying immediatly. The new Paladin cohorts that appear now also cast a charisma buff and run off to get slaughtered, in this way more and more cohorts are attracted and eventually you have a mass of Paladins all swinging at the big thing. Give them plate armor and greatswords to let them last maybe a round and to increse their crit range to 19-20. Eventually one of them has to crit, roll two more 20's and instantly kill the thing. XP jumps him and his master, the Cleric, up to level 20. Now they can cast ressurect, and more importantly, wish to bring the thing back. Lather rinse repeat, until you have more than you can use.

Now, make some of the next cohorts Sorcerers, and after theyve gotten some xp themselves, have them cast the Gate spell, and now you have access to several new creatures and and do the summon, death, kill, wish dance on more than one front, this continues endlessly until you have more than you can handle.

Now open more gates onto several diffrent planes, kill some gods, and get epic and deity levels. Open more gates and flood over the whole of the multiverse. Maybe spice it up a little by doing diffrent class combinations and such. Then go and find that little bastard kobold Pun Pun and end him with an army of endless level 30 god-like characters.

Okay tear it to shreds, tell me what I got wrong, quote rules, anything any input at all will help. Thanks much.

Oh and if its really really off, feel free to immasculate me infront of god and the internet.
PhaedrusXY
10-31-06, 01:22 PM Some freinds and I came across an amazing possibility. The idea of infinite level ones, fighting a Great Wyrm, Terrasque, Ancient Ent Elder, or even just a god. Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. Which is why that HOUSE RULE is STUPID.
Prominence
10-31-06, 01:24 PM Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it.
This would be a houserule, as no such rule exists in the books.

Firstly: A dragon can fly - your mass of level 1's cannot fly. He simply casts Lesser globe of invulnerability to handle all those nasty Magic Missiles.

Secondly: You have no method of casting wish. You could beat on the Tarrasque with an infinite amount of people and still lose to endurance. You mention wizards casting gate, but as you probably only have 1 cohort, his max level is -2 to yours. Even then, your 1000s of cohorts can't break his DR or carapace.

thirdly: You can't enter a divine realm easily, sigil is pretty much the only sure fire way and the Lady would massacre an army entering sigil for fun. You cannot get anywhere close to the dieties with Divine Splendor. You cannot fight Rejuvenation. You cannot fight the army of solars and balors. Furthermore, a simple fly spell or invisibility means all your level 1s can't touch him. Let's not even mention divinely morphic plane attributes. They shift their plane to positive/negative energy traits: everyone dies.

Then go and find that little bastard kobold Pun Pun and end him with an army of endless level 30 god-like characters.
considering pun-pun exists as an endless army of infinite level and power beings with above god-like powers who can rewrite time at a whim - no.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-31-06, 01:25 PM That house rule makes for great times, IMO.

The reason it wouldn't work against a god... prescient sense. Also the divine auras would like render them dead if they showed signs of hostility.

Against a dragon... the frightful presence should have similar effects.
NatchFeral
10-31-06, 01:28 PM Some freinds and I came across an amazing possibility. The idea of infinite level ones, fighting a Great Wyrm, Terrasque, Ancient Ent Elder, or even just a god. Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. Well given this information we set up the following phased experiment. Let me know if were missing somthing drastic here so we can correct it before we look like morons. (Or maybe its too late.)

Please explain how three 20's in a row will instant kill it.

Cloytered Cleric, with and ungodly amount of charisma and the Leadership feat. He gets say 30 cohorts, and all of them get the leadership feat. they may not be able to attract anyone just yet because of the restrictions but its important for future refence. They also get maxed in charisma, and make them human paladins. The paladins cast charisma boost on the cleric who uses that effect to grab more cohorts.

Leadership gives only a single Cohort. The rest are followers. Your followers must be 6th level to take Leadership.
The charisma boost, if it is Eagle's Splendor, will not last long enough. However, assume you have a +6 cloak of charisma.

The Paladins now rush the massive dragon, or whatever sitting there and beign to wail upon it, almost certainly dying immediatly. The new Paladin cohorts that appear now also cast a charisma buff and run off to get slaughtered, in this way more and more cohorts are attracted and eventually you have a mass of Paladins all swinging at the big thing. Give them plate armor and greatswords to let them last maybe a round and to increse their crit range to 19-20. Eventually one of them has to crit, roll two more 20's and instantly kill the thing. XP jumps him and his master, the Cleric, up to level 20. Now they can cast ressurect, and more importantly, wish to bring the thing back. Lather rinse repeat, until you have more than you can use.

Normally, despite the amount of XP, you do not advance more than one level per encounter.

Now, make some of the next cohorts Sorcerers, and after theyve gotten some xp themselves, have them cast the Gate spell, and now you have access to several new creatures and and do the summon, death, kill, wish dance on more than one front, this continues endlessly until you have more than you can handle.

Now open more gates onto several diffrent planes, kill some gods

Read up on Salient Divine Abilities.

, and get epic and deity levels. Open more gates and flood over the whole of the multiverse. Maybe spice it up a little by doing diffrent class combinations and such. Then go and find that little bastard kobold Pun Pun and end him with an army of endless level 30 god-like characters.

Okay tear it to shreds, tell me what I got wrong, quote rules, anything any input at all will help. Thanks much.

Oh and if its really really off, feel free to immasculate me infront of god and the internet.

No need to emmasculate you, really. If you want to treat DND as a video game, go right ahead. You should read the DMG again for a better understanding of how the game works, then go to the DM boards for advice if you want to run a game. And of course, come here for more advice on effectively killing a GW Red Dragon (google up a thread on just that subject!).

:)
NatchFeral
10-31-06, 01:30 PM TG got to him first!
Bonzai
10-31-06, 01:32 PM What have you been taking? Lol, it must be strong whatever it is.

Ok, first... New cohorts don't sponatneously generate from thin air. They are granted by a feat, but subject to DM fiat. The DM decides what you get, and when you get it. Bottom line, you don't get new cohorts until the dm gives them to you, and you have no control over what you actually get. As a Cleric, you are more likley to get commoner following than an army of Paladins. Even then, they are NPC's that are not generally under your control. They follow you, but make their own decisions, and can leave if they feel mis treated. Suicide running a Great wyrm would probably start a mass disertion.

2nd, Most of these things you are talking about have damage reduction, renduring your whole army worthless against it, unless you care to equip them all with expensive weapons to over come it. By the time you could afford it, you could probably handle the thing on your own anyways.

3rd, your great Wyrms fear aura would probably send the whole army off into a panic before a single blow was struck.

I could go on, but you get the point.
AhzRiael
10-31-06, 01:38 PM Throughly dissuaded, the Army of Tiny Paladins, is not, nor shall ever be. Thanks, and if you want continue to make fun of the post, cause ya know I would if I were you. Gonna go cry into a Monster Manual...
zOgre
10-31-06, 01:46 PM Instant kill is a variant from the DMG, page 28 of the 3.5 DMG. Natural 20 threatens a crit, second natural 20 confirms crit and threatens instant kill, if you hit on the third roll your hit confirms instant kill.
PhaedrusXY
10-31-06, 02:17 PM Instant kill is a variant from the DMG, page 28 of the 3.5 DMG. Natural 20 threatens a crit, second natural 20 confirms crit and threatens instant kill, if you hit on the third roll your hit confirms instant kill.Variant, House Rule, whatever. Either way, I hate it more than I hate Elminster and the 31 flavors of elves.
zOgre
10-31-06, 02:24 PM No argument here, the variant is idiotic. After all, anything like that makes things far more dangerous for players than it does for monsters, and what player wants his 20th level Übermensch to die from a child's thrown stone?
Lokiyn
10-31-06, 02:25 PM Look, its a varient just the same as prestige classes.

Some games it works some games it doesn't

Thats why it (and prestige classes) are varients

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AhzRiael 10-31-06, 01:12 PM	Some freinds and I came across an amazing possibility. The idea of infinite level ones, fighting a Great Wyrm, Terrasque, Ancient Ent Elder, or even just a god. Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. Well given this information we set up the following phased experiment. Let me know if were missing somthing drastic here so we can correct it before we look like morons. (Or maybe its too late.) Cloytered Cleric, with and ungodly amount of charisma and the Leadership feat. He gets say 30 cohorts, and all of them get the leadership feat. they may not be able to attract anyone just yet because of the restrictions but its important for future refence. They also get maxed in charisma, and make them human paladins. The paladins cast charisma boost on the cleric who uses that effect to grab more cohorts. The Paladins now rush the massive dragon, or whatever sitting there and beign to wail upon it, almost certainly dying immediatly. The new Paladin cohorts that appear now also cast a charisma buff and run off to get slaughtered, in this way more and more cohorts are attracted and eventually you have a mass of Paladins all swinging at the big thing. Give them plate armor and greatswords to let them last maybe a round and to increse their crit range to 19-20. Eventually one of them has to crit, roll two more 20's and instantly kill the thing. XP jumps him and his master, the Cleric, up to level 20. Now they can cast ressurect, and more importantly, wish to bring the thing back. Lather rinse repeat, until you have more than you can use. Now, make some of the next cohorts Sorcerers, and after theyve gotten some xp themselves, have them cast the Gate spell, and now you have access to several new creatures and and do the summon, death, kill, wish dance on more than one front, this continues endlessly until you have more than you can handle. Now open more gates onto several diffrent planes, kill some gods, and get epic and deity levels. Open more gates and flood over the whole of the multiverse. Maybe spice it up a little by doing diffrent class combinations and such. Then go and find that little bastard kobold Pun Pun and end him with an army of endless level 30 god-like characters. Okay tear it to shreds, tell me what I got wrong, quote rules, anything any input at all will help. Thanks much. Oh and if its really really off, feel free to immasculate me infront of god and the internet.
PhaedrusXY 10-31-06, 01:22 PM	Some freinds and I came across an amazing possibility. The idea of infinite level ones, fighting a Great Wyrm, Terrasque, Ancient Ent Elder, or even just a god. Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. Which is why that HOUSE RULE is STUPID.
Prominence 10-31-06, 01:24 PM	Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. This would be a houserule, as no such rule exists in the books. Firstly: A dragon can fly - your mass of level 1's cannot fly. He simply casts Lesser globe of invulnerability to handle all those nasty Magic Missiles. Secondly: You have no method of casting wish. You could beat on the Tarrasque with an infinite amount of people and still lose to endurance. You mention wizards casting gate, but as you probably only have 1 cohort, his max level is -2 to yours. Even then, your 1000s of cohorts can't break his DR or carapace. thirdly: You can't enter a divine realm easily, sigil is pretty much the only sure fire way and the Lady would massacre an army entering sigil for fun. You cannot get anywhere close to the dieties with Divine Splendor. You cannot fight Rejuvenation. You cannot fight the army of solars and balors. Furthermore, a simple fly spell or invisibility means all your level 1s can't touch him. Let's not even mention divinely morphic plane attributes. They shift their plane to positive/negative energy traits: everyone dies. Then go and find that little bastard kobold Pun Pun and end him with an army of endless level 30 god-like characters. considering pun-pun exists as an endless army of infinite level and power beings with above god-like powers who can rewrite time at a whim - no.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-31-06, 01:25 PM	That house rule makes for great times, IMO. The reason it wouldn't work against a god... prescient sense. Also the divine auras would like render them dead if they showed signs of hostility. Against a dragon... the frightful presence should have similar effects.
NatchFeral 10-31-06, 01:28 PM	Some freinds and I came across an amazing possibility. The idea of infinite level ones, fighting a Great Wyrm, Terrasque, Ancient Ent Elder, or even just a god. Eventually one of them would have a roll three 20's in a row and instant kill it. Well given this information we set up the following phased experiment. Let me know if were missing somthing drastic here so we can correct it before we look like morons. (Or maybe its too late.) Please explain how three 20's in a row will instant kill it. Cloytered Cleric, with and ungodly amount of charisma and the Leadership feat. He gets say 30 cohorts, and all of them get the leadership feat. they may not be able to attract anyone just yet because of the restrictions but its important for future refence. They also get maxed in charisma, and make them human paladins. The paladins cast charisma boost on the cleric who uses that effect to grab more cohorts. Leadership gives only a single Cohort. The rest are followers. Your followers must be 6th level to take Leadership. The charisma boost, if it is Eagle's Splendor, will not last long enough. However, assume you have a +6 cloak of charisma. The Paladins now rush the massive dragon, or whatever sitting there and beign to wail upon it, almost certainly dying immediatly. The new Paladin cohorts that appear now also cast a charisma buff and run off to get slaughtered, in this way more and more cohorts are attracted and eventually you have a mass of Paladins all swinging at the big thing. Give them plate armor and greatswords to let them last maybe a round and to increse their crit range to 19-20. Eventually one of them has to crit, roll two more 20's and instantly kill the thing. XP jumps him and his master, the Cleric, up to level 20. Now they can cast ressurect, and more importantly, wish to bring the thing back. Lather rinse repeat, until you have more than you can use. Normally, despite the amount of XP, you do not advance more than one level per encounter. Now, make some of the next cohorts Sorcerers, and after theyve gotten some xp themselves, have them cast the Gate spell, and now you have access to several new creatures and and do the summon, death, kill, wish dance on more than one front, this continues endlessly until you have more than you can handle. Now open more gates onto several diffrent planes, kill some gods Read up on Salient Divine Abilities. , and get epic and deity levels. Open more gates and flood over the whole of the multiverse. Maybe spice it up a little by doing diffrent class combinations and such. Then go and find that little bastard kobold Pun Pun and end him with an army of endless level 30 god-like characters. Okay tear it to shreds, tell me what I got wrong, quote rules, anything any input at all will help. Thanks much. Oh and if its really really off, feel free to immasculate me infront of god and the internet. No need to emmasculate you, really. If you want to treat DND as a video game, go right ahead. You should read the DMG again for a better understanding of how the game works, then go to the DM boards for advice if you want to run a game. And of course, come here for more advice on effectively killing a GW Red Dragon (google up a thread on just that subject!). :)
NatchFeral 10-31-06, 01:30 PM	TG got to him first!
Bonzai 10-31-06, 01:32 PM	What have you been taking? Lol, it must be strong whatever it is. Ok, first... New cohorts don't sponatneously generate from thin air. They are granted by a feat, but subject to DM fiat. The DM decides what you get, and when you get it. Bottom line, you don't get new cohorts until the dm gives them to you, and you have no control over what you actually get. As a Cleric, you are more likley to get commoner following than an army of Paladins. Even then, they are NPC's that are not generally under your control. They follow you, but make their own decisions, and can leave if they feel mis treated. Suicide running a Great wyrm would probably start a mass disertion. 2nd, Most of these things you are talking about have damage reduction, renduring your whole army worthless against it, unless you care to equip them all with expensive weapons to over come it. By the time you could afford it, you could probably handle the thing on your own anyways. 3rd, your great Wyrms fear aura would probably send the whole army off into a panic before a single blow was struck. I could go on, but you get the point.
AhzRiael 10-31-06, 01:38 PM	Throughly dissuaded, the Army of Tiny Paladins, is not, nor shall ever be. Thanks, and if you want continue to make fun of the post, cause ya know I would if I were you. Gonna go cry into a Monster Manual...
zOgre 10-31-06, 01:46 PM	Instant kill is a variant from the DMG, page 28 of the 3.5 DMG. Natural 20 threatens a crit, second natural 20 confirms crit and threatens instant kill, if you hit on the third roll your hit confirms instant kill.
PhaedrusXY 10-31-06, 02:17 PM	Instant kill is a variant from the DMG, page 28 of the 3.5 DMG. Natural 20 threatens a crit, second natural 20 confirms crit and threatens instant kill, if you hit on the third roll your hit confirms instant kill.Variant, House Rule, whatever. Either way, I hate it more than I hate Elminster and the 31 flavors of elves.
zOgre 10-31-06, 02:24 PM	No argument here, the variant is idiotic. After all, anything like that makes things far more dangerous for players than it does for monsters, and what player wants his 20th level Übermensch to die from a child's thrown stone?
Lokiyn 10-31-06, 02:25 PM	Look, its a varient just the same as prestige classes. Some games it works some games it doesn't Thats why it (and prestige classes) are varients