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| DarkJester04-23-05, 01:44 PM | 34 Point buy, 11000 Exp (Level 5) All WOTC books FRCS, and PHB races DM Approved Artificer DM allows Legendary Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan to Stack - to a maximum of 25% base price with 3 feats. Rest of Group: (Mostly Neutral) Human Cleric ->Dweomer Keeper of Mystara ? Barbarian /Fighter -> Frenzied Berzerker / Tribal Warrior Gold Dwarf Fighter / Sorcerer -> Lots of Gish stuff (mainly fighter) Half Orc Fighter / Rogue -> Assassin Me Plan: Strongheart Halfling Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 16+1 2 Flaws (Undecided) Feats: 3 Extraordinary Artisan, 3 Legendary Artisan, I don't know what items to make. The DM is fairly liberal with the item creation rules, he says he will pretty much let me follow the guidelines in the DMG, but to not try anything crazy (like truestrike, a healing spell at will.) He’d like me to try to stay away from making custom unlimited use per day items in general -> they must be approved (well, everything must be approved, but he is likely to deny these). I’m not sure what to do with all this “power”. What would you go for? I’m likely to be the main ranged support for this group, and would like to focus my abilities as such. I can’t create wands yet, and considering the great discount I get on making my own stuff (1/8 Base cost to create, 1/100 base cost in experience!!), am I better off creating lots of scrolls? Heward’s Handy Haversack will be needed no matter what. What scrolls are useful to have handy? What wondrous items are useful? What custom items would you make? I’m really at a loss; there is simply so much I could do with this. It’s effectively like giving a level 5 character 45,000 gold to spend on items with a caster level 5( well, 7) or less. |
| Erudite04-23-05, 03:54 PM | I'm including common spells from level 2 or below that you can invest in, since all of these can be produced cheaply, and if you throw fifty or so in a Haversack, enhance your utility immensely to your group. Scrolls: Artillery: Scorching Ray Magic Missile (I only place this here so you can finish off the BBG when he has two hit points left, and the fighter can't seem to hit him. It's happened to me.) Battlefield Control: Web Grease Faerie Fire Glitterdust Silent Image Earthen Grasp (CA) Obscuring Mist Anti-Mage Spirit Worm (MoF) Phantasmal Assailants (C) (also anti Rogue) Anti-Tank/Rogue: Tasha's Hideous Laughter Anti-Cleric: Silence Buffing: Blessed Aim (CD) (great for the archers in your group, or if you like Orbs or Rays) Camouflage (CD) Enlarge Defensive: Fireburst (CA) Mirror Image Utility: Alter Self Summon Monster Minor Image Detect Thoughts Whispering Wind Comprehend Languages Rope Trick (a must have) Spider Climb (stay out of the way, and cast your scrolls) A Wand of CLW is tremendously cost effective too, so make one of those. Don't forget a light crossbow that you can Infuse with Bane, once you figure out who the BBG is. As for Wonderous Items, a Hat of Disguise (1800 gp) is fantastic for all sorts of bad behavior, and Quaal's Feather token (tree)(400 gp) is great for crushing folks if you can deliver it on top of their head (mage hand or a familiar), and maybe simultaneously block an entrance/exit. And of course, Heward's Handy Haversack (2,200 gp). If other sources of healing are not available from other players, have a few Cure potions they can use without you, in case you are in need of help. Continual Light cast on a grey Ioun stone makes for a handy light source, hands free. Put it in your haversack when you don't need it. |
| Pinky's brain04-23-05, 08:22 PM | Guess you didnt know the artisan feats have been erratad? |
| Old Man with a Stick04-23-05, 08:25 PM | Guess you didnt know the artisan feats have been erratad? Does it matter? His DM rulled that they did stack. I mean in all fairness it'd be good for him to let his DM know it was errated if he doesn't already. But the DM did say they did. My guess is that the DM does know it was errated because he limited it to only 3 taking effect. |
| DarkJester04-24-05, 07:23 PM | The DM is aware of the errata regarding the feats. He is allowing it because he believes I will be the party's weak link. I know this is not the case (far from it) but he insisted despite my warning him otherwise. I'm not going to complain :) . Where can one find a "Cannith wand master" or some prestiege class along those lines. I've heard other people on these boards speak of it. |
| Pinky's brain04-24-05, 08:49 PM | It's a 3 level PrC from Sharn City of Towers which gives you dual wand wielding, and you can add your class level to wand caster level and DC. Your DM is quite insane ... a dweomercheater and an artificer who can craft for next to no cost ... you guys need a hulking hurler. Why are you taking legendary artisan? Once you get metamagic spelltrigger being a level behind wont matter much to you anymore (and you get XP by the bucketload while being a level behind). Also you are short on metamagic feats. Id scrap legendary artisan and take metamagic feats ... extend+persistent are great for buffing, heighten is nice for DCs and all the damage increasing metamagic feats are well described in the artificer thread. Time is a bigger hurdle than XP IMO. Even with a small army of dedicated wrights crunching away for you at items huddled in their bag of holding laboratories time is a problem. You can maintain throughput that way, but the sheer time it takes to make expensive items is nasty. Unless you think you can get access to a (pocket) plane with flowing time, so you can just planeshift to your extraplanar laboratory and be back with a completed item the next moment. As for items and spells, a lot of good spells have already been mentioned ... but windwall was absent from the battlefield control spells. There are lots of spells which make great continuous effect items, alter self for instance is a cheap way of getting NA (and it stacks with enhancement bonuses). The single round spells from complete adventurer especially, but that is a bit abusive ... they should probably have an extra multiplier. At higher level a polymorph item would also be nice, should cost you only about 11K gp to make (the psionic version costs 88K AFAIR). An item which gives you a bonus on UMD is of course something which you should get soonest. |
| DarkJester04-25-05, 07:58 AM | My DM is quite crazy. It suites him well though, he likes to throw tough stuff at the parties. TPK's are not all that uncommon, so I end up back on these boards quite a bit. We all have a blast tearing through stuff (or getting torn through). I'm taking Legendary Artisan because the DM tends to be pretty stingy with experience. He doesn't follow the normal guidelines and tends to hand it out in lump sums. If I fall a level behind in experience I'd likely stay that way for a while. In previous campaigns we were given pretty much as much time as we needed to do our "thing", hopefully this game will be the same and I won't have to worry about that. I don't have any metamagic feats yet, because I won't be using them - yet. I'll pick up twin spell at sixth level when I get craft wand. A wand doesn't seem worth it at this point. A wand of scorching ray (CL 3) cost 4500 and does 8d6 when twinned. 50 scrolls of scorching ray at caster level 3 grant me 8d6 damage for [(25*3*2)*0.25*0.50]*50 = 937.5 gold. The wand requires me use my first round to put twin on it before I can start taking 8d6 shots. It doesn't do any more damage until the third round of combat. On the positive side, it would not eat up all my move actions as drawing scrolls would. I can't recall if a fifth level artificer can scribe a 7th level scroll of scorching ray, but it would only cost ~2000 gold for me to craft 50. The alternative to either would be a custom magic missile, or lesser orb at will wondrous item. I might be able to convine the DM to allow that. Again, can an artificer craft something at a higher caster level than his own? I seem to remember some comment about CL +2 for prerequisites. I don't have my book or the preliminary sheet here in front of me so I can't show the whole layout, I'll post it when I get home this afternoon. I |
| Pinky's brain04-25-05, 08:45 AM | CL of spells from items is limited by your own level, the +2 is only for prerequisites. One trick you can use with a DM who is flexible about item crafting, and your DM seems to be, is to get a command word activated item of harmonic chorus (CV). You can get a homunculus to use it each round for +2 to your CL. Also there is the ioun stone of course. You could just use retain essence to keep your craft reserve high. With one or more legendary artisan feats even the items you create yourself. Stuff like golem manuals work best for this. There is a potion belt in FRCS which allows you to get a potion as a free action once a round, it also has a scroll organizer ... ask your DM if the scroll organizer will allow you to get a scroll as a free action once a round. You can make scrolls of polymorph. Polymorphing to a splinterwaif will get you an extra 3d6 sneak attack damage on your scorching ray (splinterwaif knafe gets you 4d6 at level 6+). Will also improve your AC considerably, but lowers your hp with 1 per level. |
| Pinky's brain04-25-05, 10:15 AM | BTW, why are you pumping cha? 16 is plenty .... hell, 14 is plenty with a DM which allows UMD bonus items. |
| DarkJester04-25-05, 04:10 PM | Good point. This is my first try at an Artificer. Can you suggest any good forms for alter self? I only have the SRD as far as monsters go (here anyways), but have acsess to all the WOTC books at the DM's house. Lizardfolk looks like the best bet from the MMI (+5 Natural armor). Edit: Didn't see the post above that last one. Am I correct to assume Harmonic chorus wouldn't help the caster level of my scrolls or other magic items? I'll talk to my DM about a scroll belt, he'll probably allow it. Polymorph will help even more, hmm... |
| Pinky's brain04-25-05, 09:41 PM | Troglodyte is the best alter self form for humanoids, you dont get ex attacks so no need to worry about stench ... you do get +6 NA and multiattack (which makes the natural attacks more usefull). Harmonic chorus would not in and of itself help the CL of scrolls and wands, but it allows you to create scrolls and wands at higher CL than you normally could ... which is usefull when you are just missing the necessary CL by 2 levels (as is the case for scorching ray when you are level 5 for instance, getting those 2 extra levels is exactly what you need to be able to craft a scroll capable of shooting 2 rays). |
| DarkJester04-25-05, 11:01 PM | Ah, thats good to hear - no smell artificer. Harmonic Chorus for item creation - great idea. That will let me grab the caster level 7 scrolls of scorching ray, and gives me a little bit more guidance on what to spend cash on. Thanks for the help Pinky's Brain (and others). |
| stompyone04-25-05, 11:21 PM | I disagree that Trog is the best Alter self. It's good, don't get me wrong. But there are others that can be better depending on what you want. More AC, fast swim speed, flight, the skulk's uber-sneakiness, etc. For Alter Self forms and how to get the most from them, you want Phaedrus' thread HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=176246) It's a (I believe) up to date and comprehensive list. And I reference it often for my own character's use because it kicketh much arse. :D |