Post/Author/DateTime	Post
uneasyspider 01-29-07, 08:36 AM	So i'm starting a game soon with an artificer, he's going to have alot of feats and about 5800 starting gold which i've already spent on paper for the most part, anyways my DM dropped this bomb on me: Every cahracter in this campaign gets a upto 15,000 (16,000 MAYBE if you BEG) gold piece item that does not waste or use charges or anything of that nature, what he calls an "heirloom item". Truthfully I have NO IDEA what to pick, the only two things I was able to decide on were the following, and I didn't even really care much for either: Ring of Greater Counterspell (Arms and Equipment guide) (Mordie's DJ) (16,000) Tessellated Armor, Glammered (Arms and Equipment guide) (11,000+glamered) For the ring I had to BEG for even so much as the possibility of it, so i'm not even sure if it would have been possible, he's still thinknig about that one, but to be fair, I think I can find something better than this. The rules: 1. Only D&D books with the "offical" D&D logo on it (meaning forgotten realms is out, but ECS is in since it has a little logo on it) 2. upto 15,000 in value, cannot be something that can be used, such as a wand, staff, ect. 3. Must be presentable in one item, soemthing roleplayably a family heirloom, perhaps. Good suggestions so far: +4 Int enhancing item (16,000) normal metamagic rod (extend) (11,000) Crossbow - Deathwand (A&E) (10335) Forge of the Armorsmith (RoS) (10000) Forge of the Weaponsmith (RoS) (10000) Gloves of the Uldra Servant (frostburn) (12700) Right now i'm realizing I can craft just able anything that I can chose from my list, so i'm thinking of asking my DM if he will allow me to have an item not normally craftable or that he would not normally allow to craft as an heirloom item worth near 15,000
Pinky's brain 01-29-07, 09:08 AM	Why do you care about MDJ now? You are level 3 ... How about a raptor arrow from CD, you need the True Believer feat ... but it's a really nice item for an artificer once you can afford a minor schema of Slaying Arrow (18K). Since Slaying Arrow does not discharge and since the Raptor Arrow doesn't break.
ressurrector 01-29-07, 02:32 PM	Pick a spell you like, 2nd or 3rd level. Make an item that uses said spell either continuously, or a set number of times per day. Either that or just get some rockin' mithral fullplate
uneasyspider 01-29-07, 05:17 PM	Pick a spell you like, 2nd or 3rd level. Make an item that uses said spell either continuously, or a set number of times per day. Either that or just get some rockin' mithral fullplate Can't do custom rules on items, which i'm assuming that is? And the mithril fullplate, that's what the Tessellated Armor is, sort of.
Salla 01-29-07, 07:33 PM	Can't do custom rules on items, which i'm assuming that is? And the mithril fullplate, that's what the Tessellated Armor is, sort of. That's not really a custom item, just making a standard item out of a special material.
uneasyspider 01-29-07, 07:35 PM	That's not really a custom item, just making a standard item out of a special material. how is this not a standard item: Pick a spell you like, 2nd or 3rd level. Make an item that uses said spell either continuously, or a set number of times per day. ???
Pinky's brain 01-29-07, 07:49 PM	Standard items are the ones statted in the DMG and splatbooks, newly designed items are custom items (DUH). Their pricing (and thus their existence) is completely upto the DM, and not in a rule 0 sense either ... there simply are no rules for him to follow, only guidelines.
uneasyspider 01-29-07, 07:50 PM	I play with rules lawyers and the like who like things RAW all the time. Anything houseruled is for the vampaign and not for the players, so things like that are not possible, as it turns into a war of 'fairness'.
thompsja 01-29-07, 08:08 PM	+4 Stat enhancing item - like to Int. This aids in your spell selection, and artificier knowledge roll, plus all the skills that are INT-dependent. Cost - 16,000.
uneasyspider 01-29-07, 09:20 PM	Hmm. Good idea! :D I'll add that to the list of suggested that I like (actually, ill start that list, lol)
ressurrector 01-30-07, 12:34 AM	Well, pretty much every item in existance is an extension of the item crafting guidelines found in the DMG. Some of the guidelines are fairly solid (although any items made from them are still concidered not to be strictly in the book) For instance, an item that provides a 3/day bull's strength is very specific as to the cost, duration, dispell DC, and so-forth.
Griff 01-30-07, 12:54 AM	Candle of invocation, 8400gp, nuff said.
The_Mad_Linguist 01-30-07, 10:34 AM	Candle of invocation, 8400gp, nuff said. Did you read the OP? "that does not waste or use charges or anything of that nature"
Edea 01-30-07, 11:01 AM	Since you're an artificer, you can use your Retain Essence ability (once you've reached level 5) on this item to plop the XP into your craft pool. Then you can simply make different items according to your tastes when you've got the cash, if the original item you chose isn't to your liking. Best used with feats that reduce GP costs for making items. Unless, of course, your DM goes into conniptions when you say you're going to do this to the item. Hmm, are there any non-charge/completion items which require more XP to craft than the usual 1/25 market price?
Ricohard_Draconis 01-30-07, 11:16 AM	Since you're an artificer, you can use your Retain Essence ability (once you've reached level 5) on this item to plop the XP into your craft pool. Then you can simply make different items according to your tastes when you've got the cash, if the original item you chose isn't to your liking. Best used with feats that reduce GP costs for making items. Unless, of course, your DM goes into conniptions when you say you're going to do this to the item. Hmm, are there any non-charge/completion items which require more XP to craft than the usual 1/25 market price? Just remember the artificer errata means no getting that 5000xp back from the Wish spell as well as the cost to create :)
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 11:38 AM	Since you're an artificer, you can use your Retain Essence ability (once you've reached level 5) on this item to plop the XP into your craft pool. Then you can simply make different items according to your tastes when you've got the cash, if the original item you chose isn't to your liking. Best used with feats that reduce GP costs for making items. Unless, of course, your DM goes into conniptions when you say you're going to do this to the item. Hmm, are there any non-charge/completion items which require more XP to craft than the usual 1/25 market price? Well actually, no one in our gaming circle ever really made a crafter, much less an artificer, so the DM said no XP used in crafting, which blew me away as he told me AFTER I made my character. So yeah that idea isn't much to work =/
Pinky's brain 01-30-07, 11:42 AM	I bet he is going to rethink that when you can create scrolls of wish ;) BTW, you can just use IMarvin's site to search for items in a given price range.
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 11:44 AM	Hmm, I think that's diffrent. We still lose XP for casting spells, so i'm sure in the case of wish we lose the wish XP just not the scroll xp. And link, please?
Edea 01-30-07, 11:44 AM	O_O Well, look at THIS little benny we just uncovered. No XP used to craft?! LOL! Quick, somebody summon a lantern archon!!
Sphyre 01-30-07, 11:46 AM	If it can be a custom item you can get a wonderous item that gives +10 competence bonus to Use Magic Device (Most likely a hat cloak or vest), which is 10000gp. While it may not be the full amount, it's probably the most pertinent magic item you could get consistent use out of
Pinky's brain 01-30-07, 11:50 AM	Hmm, I think that's diffrent. We still lose XP for casting spells, so i'm sure in the case of wish we lose the wish XP just not the scroll xp. Spells are not cast during item creation. And link, please? Lazy bum (http://www.imarvintpa.com/DnDLive/FindItem.php).
Edea 01-30-07, 11:55 AM	Also, in this case, the craft reserve is useless (because all it does is sub in for XP costs, which you no longer have). Therefore, it'd be a very good idea to PrC once you get metamagic spell completion (might have suggestions later, but...how far will this campaign go, do you know atm?)
jameswilliamogle 01-30-07, 12:20 PM	I'd sell your item, and use the cash to use your lower-level craft reserves and have a bunch of money left over. but thats just me...
Edea 01-30-07, 12:32 PM	I'd sell your item, and use the cash to use your lower-level craft reserves and have a bunch of money left over. but thats just me... That's just it, items do not cost experience to craft in his game, meaning he does not need a craft reserve at all. He basically has an infinite craft reserve, right from the start. He can convert the money directly into any items in the budget that he wishes.
karoshi 01-30-07, 12:35 PM	A lesser metamagic rod (maximize) costs 14k and could be used quite well at third level.
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 12:35 PM	If it can be a custom item you can get a wonderous item that gives +10 competence bonus to Use Magic Device (Most likely a hat cloak or vest), which is 10000gp. While it may not be the full amount, it's probably the most pertinent magic item you could get consistent use out of Not possible. He didn't even agree to a +5 one when I asked for one. Spells are not cast during item creation. Well in regards to a wish scroll I believe I know what he meant, in the sense that if the spell uses up XP to cast then in the creation that portion you still have to cover. Other than that, the xp isn't needed. Also, in this case, the craft reserve is useless (because all it does is sub in for XP costs, which you no longer have). Therefore, it'd be a very good idea to PrC once you get metamagic spell completion (might have suggestions later, but...how far will this campaign go, do you know atm?) truthfully? I don't know, but I know some friends of the DM helped him make some epic level crafters, either to be friendly NPCs or enemies or both later. So that may be a hint of atleast upto level (i'd assume) 10-14 at the least? I'd sell your item, and use the cash to use your lower-level craft reserves and have a bunch of money left over. but thats just me... He probably wouldn't like that, and at our table you don't **** off the DM. :D This is supposed to be a heavy roleplay campaign, never know what he has in mind (then again it may not be, I haven't heard any hints to heavy roleplay yet). And yeah, no xp needed to craft unless the spell in the crafting uses XP. A lesser metamagic rod (maximize) costs 14k and could be used quite well at third level. That sounds interesting, i'll look into that
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 01:32 PM	Updated the list.
Elephant Jack 01-30-07, 03:51 PM	Mh, one of the coolest low-level-items you can get for money costs only 1,800 gp... a night hag's heartstone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightHag.htm). This idea is actually brought to you by SageBahamut. You'll get +2 resistance to saves, etherealness at will, immunity to diseases... all you need is a good UMD check modifier, something around +2X. This makes sure you'll hit the dreaded DC 25 for racial emulation. EJ P.S.: Or simply get some cool wand with some pesky spells on it, this'll always work.
catharz 01-30-07, 04:14 PM	I wrote a long reply of all the items you might possibly want, but accidentally cleared it. Suffice to say, you probably want a Scepter of Obedience [MHB]. It gives a +5 competence bonus to all charisma checks. Doesn't stack with a Circlet of Persuasion, but that leaves the head slot open for your Headband of Intellect.
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 04:16 PM	Agreed. I saw that item and liked it, but then realized I could just craft the bugger not too soon (what's half the price of it? then with only 75% of THAT? Yeah, pretty cheap). Which brought up an interesting point. I probably don't want anyhting I can craft really soon, because then I would obviously regret it... so eitehr take soemthing I would never have the prereqs to craft or take something I won't have the feat for to craft for a long time (such as a ring)
Sphyre 01-30-07, 04:25 PM	I'm a personal fan of the extend spell feat. A metamagic rod of extend (normal) is 11,000, and every infusion you cast (1-6th) 3/day can be extended by it. Not shabby at all IMHO.
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 06:31 PM	That's a good one! I have to go over my infusion's list and see how many possibilities I can crack with that. Too bad I can't milk another 4k into the rod and make it some kind of 15,000 item, but it's not a wonderous. :P Thanks. Added to the list.
The_Mad_Linguist 01-30-07, 07:12 PM	That's a good one! I have to go over my infusion's list and see how many possibilities I can crack with that. Too bad I can't milk another 4k into the rod and make it some kind of 15,000 item, but it's not a wonderous. :P Thanks. Added to the list. Ask your GM if you can have a single metamagic rod with powers of the extend rod (normal) and enlarge rod (lesser). Lesser enlarge isn't particularly good, but it only costs you 3k, and would be useful (I guess) for fireballs. It's better than lesser silent, at any rate. A set of spellstoring weapons might be nice, too.
Quippish 01-30-07, 07:31 PM	Ask your GM if you can have a single metamagic rod with powers of the extend rod (normal) and enlarge rod (lesser). Lesser enlarge isn't particularly good, but it only costs you 3k, and would be useful (I guess) for fireballs. It's better than lesser silent, at any rate. A set of spellstoring weapons might be nice, too. Er...if he's going to let you get a rod that does two rods why not get a combined rod of extend (lesser) and (normal). Plenty of infusions love to have the durations doubled. Far more useful since artificers don't cast spells that can really be enlarged.
Sphyre 01-30-07, 08:54 PM	That's a good one! I have to go over my infusion's list and see how many possibilities I can crack with that. Too bad I can't milk another 4k into the rod and make it some kind of 15,000 item, but it's not a wonderous. :P Thanks. Added to the list. I would say the headband of intellect would be good too, but you can make that at 6th level (And it doesn't give that much of an effect really, very few infusions give saves, even though the artificer descriptions say none do. It doesn't grant skill points, nor does it give as many bonus spells as a 9 levels of spells progression) The rod would require you actually taking the extend spell feat (which is a good choice, esspecially because it's a prerequisite to get persistent spell, and make persistent buffs from blowing a lot of charges from wands) and be 15th level to meet the CL requirement of 17. For a free item of low level, it could come in very handy, and be useful throughout your entire career.
uneasyspider 01-30-07, 11:06 PM	Er...if he's going to let you get a rod that does two rods why not get a combined rod of extend (lesser) and (normal). Plenty of infusions love to have the durations doubled. Far more useful since artificers don't cast spells that can really be enlarged. Agreed. So what, that's 6 charges for 1-3 and/or 3 charges for 4-6 and 3 charges for 1-3?
divide_by_zero 01-31-07, 01:44 AM	Note that the Caster Level listed is not a prerequisite. Prerequisites come after the semicolon after the Caster Level. The Caster Level is the caster level that found items usually possess. From the latest 3.5 DMG Errata, DMG_Errata032004.pdf Caster Level Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215 Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading. Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.
Sphyre 01-31-07, 02:03 AM	Note that the Caster Level listed is not a prerequisite. Prerequisites come after the semicolon after the Caster Level. The Caster Level is the caster level that found items usually possess. From the latest 3.5 DMG Errata, DMG_Errata032004.pdf Ooh, thanks for the errata.
Quippish 01-31-07, 02:27 AM	Ooh, thanks for the errata. Woa. I could have sworn that the artificer text basically said it was a requirement. Granted, it strongly implies that since I can't think of a single item that requires a specific caster level.
uneasyspider 01-31-07, 02:39 AM	Note that the Caster Level listed is not a prerequisite. Prerequisites come after the semicolon after the Caster Level. The Caster Level is the caster level that found items usually possess. From the latest 3.5 DMG Errata, DMG_Errata032004.pdf Okay, it's really early/late for me at this time and/or maybe i'm just a llittle slow.. ..but can someone explain what the hell that just meant? :confused: I'll read ita gain about five times and see if it sinks in, if not, could someone step in?
Quippish 01-31-07, 02:41 AM	Okay, it's really early/late for me at this time and/or maybe i'm just a llittle slow.. ..but can someone explain what the hell that just meant? :confused: I'll read ita gain about five times and see if it sinks in, if not, could someone step in? Caster level isn't an issue. You need to provide a casting of the spells listed each day of creation and meet any other requirements stated. The caster level listed for most magic items is just the average creation level, not a requirement. The only exception are items that state "Creator must be xth level" like Ioun stones. The above is definite for people who don't "cheat" like artificers. I'm not sold on them yet but it looks like it.
uneasyspider 01-31-07, 02:45 AM	Caster level isn't an issue. You need to provide a casting of the spells listed each day of creation and meet any other requirements stated. The caster level listed for most magic items is just the average creation level, not a requirement. The only exception are items that state "Creator must be xth level" like Ioun stones. The above is definite for people who don't "cheat" like artificers. I'm not sold on them yet but it looks like it. Wow, you're a quick one, I was just reading the entry in the DMG to cross referance and see what "I missed" when you chimed in. WHAT!?!?!?!?! So I can make any extradimentional space item (listed as CL 9) at artificer (and character) level 3 if I can emulate the spell and pay the cost??? Okay, the wording is still a little odd. I have to be able to 100% sell my DM on this, and I have one player at my table who can take any sentence and make it mean something totally different (said player made everyone believe ice immunity meant you ALWAYS take +50% from firespells, even if you make the save, meaning, in his eyes, that you always take 150% damage, even if you make the save you still take the damage.). The way I interpreted it, both sentences broken down: For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. My interpretation: Whatever your caster level is when you created the item, the item can be of that level or any level lower which you decide. You have the choice of what the item's caster level when creating it so long as that level does not past your own caster level. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. My interpretation: The caster level presented after the item description is the lowest caster level NORMALLY possible if one meets the prerequisites, but the caster level presented is NOT a prerequisite, just a guideline. Is that right? I still have a headache because it's a little past 3 am and this totally just blew me away.
divide_by_zero 01-31-07, 03:35 AM	The Caster Level listed is an aid to DMs for setting a caster level for items found in treasure. You usually can meet the prerequisites at a caster level lower than the guideline caster level. The required caster level is the level at which you can cast, or fake, the required spells and obtain, or fake, the required creation feat.
uneasyspider 01-31-07, 04:17 AM	Okay, incase my DM is a little slow (like I was a moment ago) and doesn't catch what the errata means i've gathered two pieces of "evidence" to show him to illustrate my point. 1. on page 215 of the DMG is lists prerequisites and Caster Level seperately, concluding that they are, indeed, seperate entities. 2. Ioun stones specifically list a prerequisite level for the creator to be to create the item. This illustrates that the Caster Level specified was indeed only a guideline unless thus specified, which in this case, it was. No other item does such a thing, only proving my point further. *EDIT* Bracers of armor also help illustrate this point with it's caster level prerequisite. Anyone else have anything to add to this?
Pinky's brain 01-31-07, 11:09 AM	My interpretation: The caster level presented after the item description is the lowest caster level NORMALLY possible if one meets the prerequisites, but the caster level presented is NOT a prerequisite, just a guideline. Even ignoring artificers spell prerequisites can be met with scrolls or by other casters, so you don't need to be able to cast the spells (and have the corresponding caster level) to create the item. If caster level is not an actual prerequisite the minimum caster level for an item is 1. PS. the DMG errata has corrected some lines dealing with caster level prerequisites, and there is more information in the FAQ too.
Elderich 01-31-07, 12:35 PM	how about an "Item Familiar" from Unearthed Arcana, and you need to take the feat. It has rules for inheriting it.
uneasyspider 01-31-07, 06:22 PM	Even ignoring artificers spell prerequisites can be met with scrolls or by other casters, so you don't need to be able to cast the spells (and have the corresponding caster level) to create the item. If caster level is not an actual prerequisite the minimum caster level for an item is 1. PS. the DMG errata has corrected some lines dealing with caster level prerequisites, and there is more information in the FAQ too. I found the FAQ entry. It is as follows: The rules for magic item creation permit a character creating an item to use scrolls, wands, or even another caster as the source of the spells to be placed in the item. The rules do not, however, state clearly whether the character crafting the item has to be of a level sufficient to cast a given spell. Is the caster level of the character with the item creation feat being used to create the item (the “creator”) a limit on the power of the item? For example, can a 3rd-level wizard with the Craft Wondrous Item feat create items containing any spell (assuming access to the spells by other means), or is he limited to 2nd-level spells? Unless stated specifically, items never have a minimum caster level as a prerequisite. (The “CL” entry is the default caster level of the item, not a requirement for creation.) A 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item could create a harp of charming (even though he’s not high-enough level to cast suggestion, a prerequisite for creation), as long he had access to the suggestion spell during creation (such as from an item or another character). how about an "Item Familiar" from Unearthed Arcana, and you need to take the feat. It has rules for inheriting it. My DM is still on that. He's gonna get back to me. If that is the case, I will take the feat later but pick an item for now.
The_Mad_Linguist 01-31-07, 09:40 PM	You might also want to look through this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=657626 My favorite item from there is sigged.
uneasyspider 02-01-07, 03:32 AM	Tried my best to look through there. Ultimately I think i'm going to stick to something on the ring slot, as I cant forge rings till level 14.
Lotus Crane 02-01-07, 04:06 AM	If you can beg the 16,000 gp out of your DM, a vest* of resistance +4 is the most consistently and universally useful item you could possibly get for that amount. It makes perfect sense as a dependable heirloom item; any member of your family at any point in history, would certainly be helped by an incredible +4 resistance bonus to all saves. *Found in Complete Arcane, and prior to that, Tome & Blood; identical in all ways to a cloak of resistance except that it occupies the less-used shirt/vest slot, so your cloak/mantle slot remains available for some other item you get (shirt/vest occupies a different slot than armor/robe, so don't worry about that either).