Artificer's portable fire source that works in a portable hole? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificer's portable fire source that works in a portable hole? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
uneasyspider
02-17-07, 12:13 AM Hello. I've been playing in a campaign setting with an artificer lately and ran into trouble thinking of a good way to have a fire source for when i'm crafting 'on the road' on calm peaceful nights and such. Soon i'm going to make myself a portable hole to have my dedicated wright craft in it. My DM said all I need in the hole is a table and a chair for myself, though I realized the DMG says I need a fiesource (and want to get one before my DM notices that too and before I get my hole). The problem is, portable holes don't have air when you close them up.

Anyone have any suggestions? Someone here already suggested the dedicated wright with the portable hole idea, so I'm following up on that with the firesource that it has inside.
uneasyspider
02-17-07, 02:28 AM bump.

*edit* maybe posted in the wrong board? Should I move this topic elsewhere?
JaronK
02-17-07, 02:59 AM Any magic arrow with the Flaming enchantment would work, and would be very cheap. Just say the command word and let it sit there. You can get 50 such arrows pretty easily, if you need a larger fire.

JaronK
uneasyspider
02-17-07, 03:08 AM That sounds really good, mate. Thank you. Would it be enough, you think, to emulate a forge? And it sounds as if it would work without oxygen.. is this true? I'm getting my hopes up at this idea.
JaronK
02-17-07, 04:53 AM It doesn't say, but it's a good bet. Besides, if you need oxygen, there's a solution. Stronghold Builder's Guide has the cost to make a 20'X20'X10' room into a Chamber of Comfort, which makes the room always 70 degrees, has a cool breeze, and always keeps the air fresh and pure. That should keep the air good, and I don't think it would cool down the fire (but it would keep some of the air around it cool).

It's a thought, anyway.

I think 50 flaming arrows, which shouldn't cost too much, should be enough to get a nice hot anvil.

JaronK
FriendlyFrog
02-17-07, 07:05 AM Isn't there a Decanter of Endless Air or something like that somewhere?
uneasyspider
02-17-07, 08:47 AM It doesn't say, but it's a good bet. Besides, if you need oxygen, there's a solution. Stronghold Builder's Guide has the cost to make a 20'X20'X10' room into a Chamber of Comfort, which makes the room always 70 degrees, has a cool breeze, and always keeps the air fresh and pure. That should keep the air good, and I don't think it would cool down the fire (but it would keep some of the air around it cool).

It's a thought, anyway.

I think 50 flaming arrows, which shouldn't cost too much, should be enough to get a nice hot anvil.

JaronK

Sounds great, but I believe the portable hole, for example, is said to be 10x10 (not sure if it means 10x10x10). I was actually looking at that book just a minute before your post heh.
uneasyspider
02-17-07, 12:12 PM Isn't there a Decanter of Endless Air or something like that somewhere?

Maybe, I may recall it, but I'm not sure if that would entirely help?
Rathmun
02-17-07, 12:40 PM given that you are an artificer and have a DW, I'm assuming you are in Eberron.

get a khyber shard and bind a fire elemental to the forge. (more expensive than the arrows I'll admit, but there are references to the existence of elemental forges in the setting, even if there are no specific rules for making one if I were the DM I'd rule that something like that is possible)

and the Item is the bottle of air, it costs 7250 gp
Sithobi1
02-17-07, 12:48 PM There's the Bottle of Air, but you need a standard action each round to draw out air.
BenSan
02-17-07, 04:27 PM For mine, I'm planning on an anvil that will Heat Metal whatever you place on it.
uneasyspider
02-17-07, 10:36 PM given that you are an artificer and have a DW, I'm assuming you are in Eberron.

get a khyber shard and bind a fire elemental to the forge. (more expensive than the arrows I'll admit, but there are references to the existence of elemental forges in the setting, even if there are no specific rules for making one if I were the DM I'd rule that something like that is possible)

and the Item is the bottle of air, it costs 7250 gp

Not in Eberron. Just playing the class and using the book (as the book says it can be used in any campaign setting, other than the action points and shards ect.)
JaronK
02-17-07, 11:32 PM Sounds great, but I believe the portable hole, for example, is said to be 10x10 (not sure if it means 10x10x10). I was actually looking at that book just a minute before your post heh.

That's not a problem. 20X20X10 is a maximum size, not a minimum.

JaronK
GaffeR
02-18-07, 12:45 AM http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/continualFlame.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#everburningTorch

Duh?

Cast it on the wick of a lantern for extra style points.
Maat_Mons
02-18-07, 12:50 AM The effect looks like a regular flame, but it creates no heat and doesn’t use oxygen.

That sort of defeats the purpose.
uneasyspider
02-19-07, 02:31 AM That sort of defeats the purpose.

Agreed. You beat me to mentioning that.
uneasyspider
02-19-07, 11:05 AM bump
The_Mad_Linguist
02-19-07, 04:55 PM Permanacied Wall of Fire?
uneasyspider
02-20-07, 04:02 AM Permanacied Wall of Fire?

That even possible without air?
NerdNumber1
02-20-07, 09:13 AM There is a porable flame that gives off the heat of a torch (arms and equipment guide, I think). I don't think that most of these ideas will work because you need a lot more than a campfire to work metal, you need a much stronger flame. The only thing that could do that without air is a large fire elemental (preferably angry).
uneasyspider
02-20-07, 12:21 PM There is a porable flame that gives off the heat of a torch (arms and equipment guide, I think). I don't think that most of these ideas will work because you need a lot more than a campfire to work metal, you need a much stronger flame. The only thing that could do that without air is a large fire elemental (preferably angry).

Arg. Then how the hell do most people even craft in towns alone that don't have a smith willing to donate a forge? I mean someone did suggest the portable hole idea, of course.
Elderich
02-20-07, 01:00 PM For mine, I'm planning on an anvil that will Heat Metal whatever you place on it.You heat metal in a forge, and try to keep the anvil cold. heating the anvil makes no sense.

You do not need a forge, just a source of fire. Flaming arrow works cheap. Reread the item creation rules in the DMG to see what you need.
uneasyspider
02-20-07, 01:05 PM You do not need a forge, just a source of fire. Flaming arrow works cheap. Reread the item creation rules in the DMG to see what you need.

Thank you, mate. Considering your role in the board's artificer community, I appreciate it lots.

I'll pick up a few flaming arrows and an anvil and work with that.

I'm surprized no one in the artificer threads ever brought this up and came up with a grand scheme.
dragor_shadowfury
02-20-07, 02:18 PM for anyone still wondering if you can use magical fire witout air, yes you can, the fire fueling it is drawn from the elemental plane of fire.
BenSan
02-20-07, 02:36 PM You heat metal in a forge, and try to keep the anvil cold. heating the anvil makes no sense.

There is another, regular anvil next to it. What can I say? I like anvils.

The point is that a permanent Heat Metal is a nice tidy smithing solution, although it is unfortunately priced by default as if it were combat-usable. Getting it at a reasonable price requires houseruling.
Elderich
02-20-07, 03:08 PM Thank you, mate. Considering your role in the board's artificer community, I appreciate it lots.Ya, I just beat the leper vermin cockroach in the last popularity poll.I'll pick up a few flaming arrows and an anvil and work with that.You dont need an anvil, or even a flaming arrow to make magical items. Just a light source. Homocs do not breath.The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells, page 177 of the Player’s Handbook) is suitable for making items.
BenSan
02-20-07, 03:47 PM To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools.

...

To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools.

...

The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew.

...

To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source.

...

To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item.

While you can create some magic items with only the components involved and a well-lit location, you will be restricted to wands, scrolls, rods, and staves. Wondrous items do not require a heat source by RAW, but the DM may rule that it is among the necessary equipment or tools to work on the item. Other magic items do indeed require a source of heat.
uneasyspider
02-20-07, 03:50 PM While you can create some magic items with only the components involved and a well-lit location, you will be restricted to wands, scrolls, rods, and staves. Wondrous items do not require a heat source by RAW, but the DM may rule that it is among the necessary equipment or tools to work on the item. Other magic items do indeed require a source of heat.

Ah, thank you for the source quote. I knew it was there, I just didn't have the time to pull it out.

Indeed tis true.
The_Mad_Linguist
02-20-07, 06:29 PM That even possible without air?

I don't see why not.

DM bothers you about air? Put a permanent Gust of Wind next to it. The spell should act as a decent bellows. Hook it up to the bottle of air for an oxygen supply. Note that the Wall of Fire can be as small as you want it to be.
NerdNumber1
02-20-07, 07:05 PM I think the portable hole+homunculus idea works better for non-metal work, or enchanting already-made items. To forge metal items in the real world, metal has to be heated until it glows. A flaming arrow won't do this, an elemental might. I don't think formal binding is nessasarily required, a planar binding spell should do the trick, but might be a little dangerous.
uneasyspider
02-20-07, 07:10 PM I think the portable hole+homunculus idea works better for non-metal work, or enchanting already-made items. To forge metal items in the real world, metal has to be heated until it glows. A flaming arrow won't do this, an elemental might. I don't think formal binding is nessasarily required, a planar binding spell should do the trick, but might be a little dangerous.

Not in eberron. Also, my DM doesn't like anything that isn't already accounted for in the books with rules. He likes less thinking about fair-play and more thinking on getting the game going.

Good point though, I may just stick with non heat-source craftables for that case. In any case, I can craft scrolls for teleport or a teleportation circle or such to get me to a shop to work or set up a homoc to work (I don't see anywhere in the RAW or errata where I can't have two homocs, but I can't have them both crafting as I can only craft one item at a time) on the metal stuff in a safe place.
The_Mad_Linguist
02-20-07, 08:10 PM Not in eberron. Also, my DM doesn't like anything that isn't already accounted for in the books with rules. He likes less thinking about fair-play and more thinking on getting the game going.

Good. You don't have to worry about air then. Just pay the price for a permanent wall of fire and forget about it.
uneasyspider
02-21-07, 02:20 AM Good. You don't have to worry about air then. Just pay the price for a permanent wall of fire and forget about it.

that's not on the permanency list. i guess i could ask him if I could try, though.
BenSan
02-21-07, 03:20 AM Build an automatic-reset Heat Metal trap in the bottom of your Portable Hole. Have a metal disc you can use as a hot plate for potions and other nonmetallic goods. Cost is 3000GP and 24XP by SRD, plus the cost of the metal plate.
JaronK
02-21-07, 03:45 AM You sure? I could swear that you could indeed make a Wall of Fire permanent. If not, Stronghold Builder's Guide has enchantments to do that very thing to standing walls, which you could have in your portable hole.

And by the way, one step up from the flaming arrows is flaming sling bullets. Heavier, but you don't care about that. They're smaller, which is the main thing, so you can just have a pile of 50 of them as your heat source. That should do the trick.

JaronK
Czavier
02-21-07, 04:11 AM woop, nevermind, my suggestion was for lightsource, not heatsource
uneasyspider
02-21-07, 07:05 AM Build an automatic-reset Heat Metal trap in the bottom of your Portable Hole. Have a metal disc you can use as a hot plate for potions and other nonmetallic goods. Cost is 3000GP and 24XP by SRD, plus the cost of the metal plate.

I'd have to ask my DM, sounds a little cheezy, but plausable.
The_Mad_Linguist
02-21-07, 08:34 AM that's not on the permanency list. i guess i could ask him if I could try, though.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm

Third from the bottom.
NerdNumber1
02-21-07, 09:22 AM Normal fire can't be used to work metal. I'll give you a bonfire, an iron bar, an anvil, and a hammer, and I bet you won't be able to make a mark in it, much less make a sword. Black smiths' forges used giant bellows to feed air into the fire to increase its heat. The metal starts to glow different colors when heated enough.
uneasyspider
02-21-07, 09:23 AM Normal fire can't be used to work metal. I'll give you a bonfire, an iron bar, an anvil, and a hammer, and I bet you won't be able to make a mark in it, much less make a sword. Black smiths' forges used giant bellows to feed air into the fire to increase its heat. The metal starts to glow different colors when heated enough.

True enough. Which is why this is totally frustrating, lol. : )
JaronK
02-21-07, 11:46 AM But remember, a smith's bellows just allows the fire to burn faster, due to getting more oxygen (which means more heat generated). Since flaming weapons burn without the need for oxygen, a pile of 50 flaming sling bullets should burn hotter than any mideival forge.

JaronK
Elderich
02-21-07, 04:24 PM a single +1 flaming arrow will work.

Remember the flaming enhancement damages admantine.
uneasyspider
02-21-07, 07:41 PM a single +1 flaming arrow will work.

Remember the flaming enhancement damages admantine.

True enough, but i'm not sure that may be convincing?
uneasyspider
02-22-07, 12:35 PM Game today, i'll update with details if any of this works or not.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
uneasyspider 02-17-07, 12:13 AM	Hello. I've been playing in a campaign setting with an artificer lately and ran into trouble thinking of a good way to have a fire source for when i'm crafting 'on the road' on calm peaceful nights and such. Soon i'm going to make myself a portable hole to have my dedicated wright craft in it. My DM said all I need in the hole is a table and a chair for myself, though I realized the DMG says I need a fiesource (and want to get one before my DM notices that too and before I get my hole). The problem is, portable holes don't have air when you close them up. Anyone have any suggestions? Someone here already suggested the dedicated wright with the portable hole idea, so I'm following up on that with the firesource that it has inside.
uneasyspider 02-17-07, 02:28 AM	bump. edit maybe posted in the wrong board? Should I move this topic elsewhere?
JaronK 02-17-07, 02:59 AM	Any magic arrow with the Flaming enchantment would work, and would be very cheap. Just say the command word and let it sit there. You can get 50 such arrows pretty easily, if you need a larger fire. JaronK
uneasyspider 02-17-07, 03:08 AM	That sounds really good, mate. Thank you. Would it be enough, you think, to emulate a forge? And it sounds as if it would work without oxygen.. is this true? I'm getting my hopes up at this idea.
JaronK 02-17-07, 04:53 AM	It doesn't say, but it's a good bet. Besides, if you need oxygen, there's a solution. Stronghold Builder's Guide has the cost to make a 20'X20'X10' room into a Chamber of Comfort, which makes the room always 70 degrees, has a cool breeze, and always keeps the air fresh and pure. That should keep the air good, and I don't think it would cool down the fire (but it would keep some of the air around it cool). It's a thought, anyway. I think 50 flaming arrows, which shouldn't cost too much, should be enough to get a nice hot anvil. JaronK
FriendlyFrog 02-17-07, 07:05 AM	Isn't there a Decanter of Endless Air or something like that somewhere?
uneasyspider 02-17-07, 08:47 AM	It doesn't say, but it's a good bet. Besides, if you need oxygen, there's a solution. Stronghold Builder's Guide has the cost to make a 20'X20'X10' room into a Chamber of Comfort, which makes the room always 70 degrees, has a cool breeze, and always keeps the air fresh and pure. That should keep the air good, and I don't think it would cool down the fire (but it would keep some of the air around it cool). It's a thought, anyway. I think 50 flaming arrows, which shouldn't cost too much, should be enough to get a nice hot anvil. JaronK Sounds great, but I believe the portable hole, for example, is said to be 10x10 (not sure if it means 10x10x10). I was actually looking at that book just a minute before your post heh.
uneasyspider 02-17-07, 12:12 PM	Isn't there a Decanter of Endless Air or something like that somewhere? Maybe, I may recall it, but I'm not sure if that would entirely help?
Rathmun 02-17-07, 12:40 PM	given that you are an artificer and have a DW, I'm assuming you are in Eberron. get a khyber shard and bind a fire elemental to the forge. (more expensive than the arrows I'll admit, but there are references to the existence of elemental forges in the setting, even if there are no specific rules for making one if I were the DM I'd rule that something like that is possible) and the Item is the bottle of air, it costs 7250 gp
Sithobi1 02-17-07, 12:48 PM	There's the Bottle of Air, but you need a standard action each round to draw out air.
BenSan 02-17-07, 04:27 PM	For mine, I'm planning on an anvil that will Heat Metal whatever you place on it.
uneasyspider 02-17-07, 10:36 PM	given that you are an artificer and have a DW, I'm assuming you are in Eberron. get a khyber shard and bind a fire elemental to the forge. (more expensive than the arrows I'll admit, but there are references to the existence of elemental forges in the setting, even if there are no specific rules for making one if I were the DM I'd rule that something like that is possible) and the Item is the bottle of air, it costs 7250 gp Not in Eberron. Just playing the class and using the book (as the book says it can be used in any campaign setting, other than the action points and shards ect.)
JaronK 02-17-07, 11:32 PM	Sounds great, but I believe the portable hole, for example, is said to be 10x10 (not sure if it means 10x10x10). I was actually looking at that book just a minute before your post heh. That's not a problem. 20X20X10 is a maximum size, not a minimum. JaronK
GaffeR 02-18-07, 12:45 AM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/continualFlame.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#everburningTorch Duh? Cast it on the wick of a lantern for extra style points.
Maat_Mons 02-18-07, 12:50 AM	The effect looks like a regular flame, but it creates no heat and doesn’t use oxygen. That sort of defeats the purpose.
uneasyspider 02-19-07, 02:31 AM	That sort of defeats the purpose. Agreed. You beat me to mentioning that.
uneasyspider 02-19-07, 11:05 AM	bump
The_Mad_Linguist 02-19-07, 04:55 PM	Permanacied Wall of Fire?
uneasyspider 02-20-07, 04:02 AM	Permanacied Wall of Fire? That even possible without air?
NerdNumber1 02-20-07, 09:13 AM	There is a porable flame that gives off the heat of a torch (arms and equipment guide, I think). I don't think that most of these ideas will work because you need a lot more than a campfire to work metal, you need a much stronger flame. The only thing that could do that without air is a large fire elemental (preferably angry).
uneasyspider 02-20-07, 12:21 PM	There is a porable flame that gives off the heat of a torch (arms and equipment guide, I think). I don't think that most of these ideas will work because you need a lot more than a campfire to work metal, you need a much stronger flame. The only thing that could do that without air is a large fire elemental (preferably angry). Arg. Then how the hell do most people even craft in towns alone that don't have a smith willing to donate a forge? I mean someone did suggest the portable hole idea, of course.
Elderich 02-20-07, 01:00 PM	For mine, I'm planning on an anvil that will Heat Metal whatever you place on it.You heat metal in a forge, and try to keep the anvil cold. heating the anvil makes no sense. You do not need a forge, just a source of fire. Flaming arrow works cheap. Reread the item creation rules in the DMG to see what you need.
uneasyspider 02-20-07, 01:05 PM	You do not need a forge, just a source of fire. Flaming arrow works cheap. Reread the item creation rules in the DMG to see what you need. Thank you, mate. Considering your role in the board's artificer community, I appreciate it lots. I'll pick up a few flaming arrows and an anvil and work with that. I'm surprized no one in the artificer threads ever brought this up and came up with a grand scheme.
dragor_shadowfury 02-20-07, 02:18 PM	for anyone still wondering if you can use magical fire witout air, yes you can, the fire fueling it is drawn from the elemental plane of fire.
BenSan 02-20-07, 02:36 PM	You heat metal in a forge, and try to keep the anvil cold. heating the anvil makes no sense. There is another, regular anvil next to it. What can I say? I like anvils. The point is that a permanent Heat Metal is a nice tidy smithing solution, although it is unfortunately priced by default as if it were combat-usable. Getting it at a reasonable price requires houseruling.
Elderich 02-20-07, 03:08 PM	Thank you, mate. Considering your role in the board's artificer community, I appreciate it lots.Ya, I just beat the leper vermin cockroach in the last popularity poll.I'll pick up a few flaming arrows and an anvil and work with that.You dont need an anvil, or even a flaming arrow to make magical items. Just a light source. Homocs do not breath.The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells, page 177 of the Player’s Handbook) is suitable for making items.
BenSan 02-20-07, 03:47 PM	To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. ... To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. ... The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. ... To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source. ... To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item. While you can create some magic items with only the components involved and a well-lit location, you will be restricted to wands, scrolls, rods, and staves. Wondrous items do not require a heat source by RAW, but the DM may rule that it is among the necessary equipment or tools to work on the item. Other magic items do indeed require a source of heat.
uneasyspider 02-20-07, 03:50 PM	While you can create some magic items with only the components involved and a well-lit location, you will be restricted to wands, scrolls, rods, and staves. Wondrous items do not require a heat source by RAW, but the DM may rule that it is among the necessary equipment or tools to work on the item. Other magic items do indeed require a source of heat. Ah, thank you for the source quote. I knew it was there, I just didn't have the time to pull it out. Indeed tis true.
The_Mad_Linguist 02-20-07, 06:29 PM	That even possible without air? I don't see why not. DM bothers you about air? Put a permanent Gust of Wind next to it. The spell should act as a decent bellows. Hook it up to the bottle of air for an oxygen supply. Note that the Wall of Fire can be as small as you want it to be.
NerdNumber1 02-20-07, 07:05 PM	I think the portable hole+homunculus idea works better for non-metal work, or enchanting already-made items. To forge metal items in the real world, metal has to be heated until it glows. A flaming arrow won't do this, an elemental might. I don't think formal binding is nessasarily required, a planar binding spell should do the trick, but might be a little dangerous.
uneasyspider 02-20-07, 07:10 PM	I think the portable hole+homunculus idea works better for non-metal work, or enchanting already-made items. To forge metal items in the real world, metal has to be heated until it glows. A flaming arrow won't do this, an elemental might. I don't think formal binding is nessasarily required, a planar binding spell should do the trick, but might be a little dangerous. Not in eberron. Also, my DM doesn't like anything that isn't already accounted for in the books with rules. He likes less thinking about fair-play and more thinking on getting the game going. Good point though, I may just stick with non heat-source craftables for that case. In any case, I can craft scrolls for teleport or a teleportation circle or such to get me to a shop to work or set up a homoc to work (I don't see anywhere in the RAW or errata where I can't have two homocs, but I can't have them both crafting as I can only craft one item at a time) on the metal stuff in a safe place.
The_Mad_Linguist 02-20-07, 08:10 PM	Not in eberron. Also, my DM doesn't like anything that isn't already accounted for in the books with rules. He likes less thinking about fair-play and more thinking on getting the game going. Good. You don't have to worry about air then. Just pay the price for a permanent wall of fire and forget about it.
uneasyspider 02-21-07, 02:20 AM	Good. You don't have to worry about air then. Just pay the price for a permanent wall of fire and forget about it. that's not on the permanency list. i guess i could ask him if I could try, though.
BenSan 02-21-07, 03:20 AM	Build an automatic-reset Heat Metal trap in the bottom of your Portable Hole. Have a metal disc you can use as a hot plate for potions and other nonmetallic goods. Cost is 3000GP and 24XP by SRD, plus the cost of the metal plate.
JaronK 02-21-07, 03:45 AM	You sure? I could swear that you could indeed make a Wall of Fire permanent. If not, Stronghold Builder's Guide has enchantments to do that very thing to standing walls, which you could have in your portable hole. And by the way, one step up from the flaming arrows is flaming sling bullets. Heavier, but you don't care about that. They're smaller, which is the main thing, so you can just have a pile of 50 of them as your heat source. That should do the trick. JaronK
Czavier 02-21-07, 04:11 AM	woop, nevermind, my suggestion was for lightsource, not heatsource
uneasyspider 02-21-07, 07:05 AM	Build an automatic-reset Heat Metal trap in the bottom of your Portable Hole. Have a metal disc you can use as a hot plate for potions and other nonmetallic goods. Cost is 3000GP and 24XP by SRD, plus the cost of the metal plate. I'd have to ask my DM, sounds a little cheezy, but plausable.
The_Mad_Linguist 02-21-07, 08:34 AM	that's not on the permanency list. i guess i could ask him if I could try, though. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm Third from the bottom.
NerdNumber1 02-21-07, 09:22 AM	Normal fire can't be used to work metal. I'll give you a bonfire, an iron bar, an anvil, and a hammer, and I bet you won't be able to make a mark in it, much less make a sword. Black smiths' forges used giant bellows to feed air into the fire to increase its heat. The metal starts to glow different colors when heated enough.
uneasyspider 02-21-07, 09:23 AM	Normal fire can't be used to work metal. I'll give you a bonfire, an iron bar, an anvil, and a hammer, and I bet you won't be able to make a mark in it, much less make a sword. Black smiths' forges used giant bellows to feed air into the fire to increase its heat. The metal starts to glow different colors when heated enough. True enough. Which is why this is totally frustrating, lol. : )
JaronK 02-21-07, 11:46 AM	But remember, a smith's bellows just allows the fire to burn faster, due to getting more oxygen (which means more heat generated). Since flaming weapons burn without the need for oxygen, a pile of 50 flaming sling bullets should burn hotter than any mideival forge. JaronK
Elderich 02-21-07, 04:24 PM	a single +1 flaming arrow will work. Remember the flaming enhancement damages admantine.
uneasyspider 02-21-07, 07:41 PM	a single +1 flaming arrow will work. Remember the flaming enhancement damages admantine. True enough, but i'm not sure that may be convincing?
uneasyspider 02-22-07, 12:35 PM	Game today, i'll update with details if any of this works or not.