Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tommy_the_cat 03-07-06, 03:30 AM	it seems the folks down here at the CO boards can all appreciate the brokenness that is the artificer. this thread is a place to discuss specific tactics (ie combinations of items), rather than general optimization (note: if you are looking for general optimization tips for the artificer, i might refer you to the artificer handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=520855) and caelic's optimized artificer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287275).) i'm currently playing an artificer who is focused on buffing, and i'll post the build and share some ideas and tactics that i have. suggestions for improvement would be greatly appreciated. Human 1) Artificer 1: Otherworldly, Extraordinary Artisan 2) Artificer 2: 3) Artificer 3: Item Familiar 4) Artificer 4: Extend Spell 5) Artificer 5: 6) Artificer 6: Persistant Spell 7) Artificer 7: 8) Artificer 8: Reach Spell 9) Artificer 9: Wand Mastery 10) Artificer 10: 11) Artificer 11: 12) Artificer 12: Craft Contingent Spell, Wand Surge 13) Artificer 13: 14) Artificer 14: 15) Artificer 15: Extra Rings 16) Artificer 16: Leadership 17) Artificer 17: 18) Artificer 18: Quicken Spell 19) Artificer 19: 20) Artificer 20: (Feat) just a note, normally i wouldn't take otherworldly and i'd just wait for shapechange, but fortunately i have access to a psion, who can manifest psychic reformation when the time comes ;) right now i'm at level 10, and my buffs are usually something along the lines of: divine power haste, swift wraithstrike delay death beastland ferocity spikes one thing i'm looking for suggestions about is a good form to polymorph into (preferably high str) that grants PA as a racial feat. since i'm making touch attacks with a two-handed weapon. things i like about this tactic: lots of attacks for your lvl (divine power plus an extra one from haste), good survivability (can't die from damage unless dispelled), good damage (high change to hit plus spikes) things i don't like about this tactic: getting dispelled! as i approach level 20 i plan to have persistant buffs like: shapechange divine power (this one never gets old) more invulnerability related stuff (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=478716&page=1&pp=30) etc. as well as at least a few contingent greater dispels set to counter de-buffing conditionally, giant size would be a good one also. incidentally (speaking of size increases) i read somewhere about a spell that increases the damage of a wooden weapon by 5 or so size cadegories, or something silly like that. anyone know what i'm talking about or where i could find it? another tactic i was considering for the mid-high levels is SA. once you have access to staffs (read: persistant buffs above 4th level) and 12HD you can be able to turn into a kelvezu for +8d6 SA, craft a weapon of deadly precision (+2d6 SA), and have a persist ant nightstalker's transformation (+3d6 SA). don't forget about persistant greater blink, and grave strike and it's kin, to ensure full sneak attacking goodness. of course, this will unfortueately end-up sub-optimal unless you can find a way to aquire TWF (i'm open to suggestion here). well, it's not much, but hopefully i got the ball rolling with a few ideas there. one last thing: i think it would be good to have strategies that can be used at different levels, not just extremely high ones, as people often have to play charactors that are at levels lower than 20 ;). er, well i guess it's acutally 2 last things: i'd really appreciate suggestions to improve on my build and tactics, because well, it's my character and i want him to be good :)
Pinky's brain 03-07-06, 10:35 AM	You want a ring of counterspells with a greater dispel magic in it obviously. Greater mighty wallop is in RotD, just like giant size it's caster level dependent though. You will want to fill up with caster level increasing magic, bead of karma, deathknell, consumptive field and finally spell enhancer. Even a spell like giant vermin can become quite funny if you cast it at CL 20 at level 10. You seem to like melee awfully much, is artificer 20 really the best for you? High level artificer levels don't give much except for craft reserve, and I always run through that in a hurry (I rely on the XP gravy train for my crafting XP ... ie. I just don't level up for a while).
Prominence 03-07-06, 10:38 AM	sadly artificer won't gain anything from beads of karma. he beads of karma and summons can be activated by any character capable of casting divine spells.
sornet 03-07-06, 10:39 AM	*Nevermind*
Pinky's brain 03-07-06, 10:42 AM	Spellcasting is a class feature, and though you can't actually cast a spell to find out how to activate it that doesn't stop you from activating it blindly. One DC21 and one DC25 UMD check is all an artificer needs to use a beed of karma.
Bloodlust_the_Bold 03-07-06, 12:20 PM	what about chain spell for that last feat, to maximize your mileage on buffs ...
tommy_the_cat 03-07-06, 03:44 PM	You seem to like melee awfully much, is artificer 20 really the best for you? i'm not sure. i'm just doing what works? i tried blasting for a bit, but energy resistance / immunity / spell resistance seemed an issue, so i had the blasting related feats psychic reformed away. also, DCs for the usual wizard tactics (SoD, whatever) seem like an issue because of the artificier casting from items. well, at least until one can use staffs. personally, i will probably switch tactics a bit at higher levels, who knows. as far as higher CL, you can just UMD a staff. (for those not familiar with the tactic there is a thread about it here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=387497)) i know there has been some debate about it - but please save that for another thread if you are on the 'it dosen't work' side, and i'll gladly come discuss it there. or PM me, i'm up for a debate about it. and i think i'd rather have a ring of spell battle (CA) than a ring of counterspells. with craft contingent spell, you can always have a greater dispel (or a few) ready, set to trigger for any de-buffs being cast (so it foils MDJ too)
IThoughtISawA... 03-07-06, 04:12 PM	To the OP: If you're playing this build from 1 on, switch your 4th and 6th level feats. Persistent spell is useless before you get Metamigc Spell Completion/Trigger or 3rd level infusions, and at that level, the small savings from Extraordinairy Artisan are very valuable. I'd recomend finding room for Craft Minor Schema, for 1/d infusion items (especially Metamagic Item)- take advantage of the fact that artificers are spontaneous casters by not using more infusions than absolutely neccessary in your daily buff routine. ~ITISA.
Caelic 03-07-06, 04:56 PM	Do keep in mind that Spikes has been altered severely as of the Spell Compendium. It is no longer the be-all end-all massive damage boost spell, which is probably a good thing.
tommy_the_cat 03-07-06, 11:55 PM	If you're playing this build from 1 on, switch your 4th and 6th level feats. Persistent spell is useless before you get Metamigc Spell Completion/Trigger or 3rd level infusions, and at that level, the small savings from Extraordinairy Artisan are very valuable. good call, yeah that build was played from first level and i took the feats in a different order - i'll correct that. I'd recomend finding room for Craft Minor Schema, for 1/d infusion items (especially Metamagic Item)- take advantage of the fact that artificers are spontaneous casters by not using more infusions than absolutely neccessary in your daily buff routine. oh wow, that's a good feat. i never really took a good look at the magic of eberron. defenately a must have for bufficers. Do keep in mind that Spikes has been altered severely as of the Spell Compendium. It is no longer the be-all end-all massive damage boost spell, which is probably a good thing. i am indeed aware of this, but it's still the higest enhancement bonus to damage i know of; but since the errata it would be a good to have a way to add more damage. perhaps i'll try and start a list for reference for anyone concerned with buffing: Spikes Brambles (no longer stacks with spikes, but i thought i'd include it for completeness) Divine Favor (+3 luck bonus to damage; probably not worth a persistant spell but it depends on your resources) err, that's about all i know of that actually just adds bonus damage straight-up. but now another list for the real sorce of damage, increasing str. polymorph use it to set your base str nice and high divine favor you're going to have it for the bab anyways, but it adds +6 enhancement so you don't have to worry about a belt of giant's str anymore. consumtive field a really good one, adds +2 unnamed for each opponent felled within the field. really no limit to this one if you can find a bunch of squirrels or somthing. rightous might not as good as it once was, but still offers +4 size bonus giant size surprisingly, not a size bonus. +32 unnamed is mighty helpful, but it also makes you collosal, so it's pretty situational i'm sure there's lots that is missing from both these lists, but additions are always welcomed and appreciated. i think, with all this strength, that it would also be helpful to polymorph into a form that grants PA as a racial feat. but sadly, i don't know of any.
J-A-R-N-O 03-08-06, 11:35 AM	i think, with all this strength, that it would also be helpful to polymorph into a form that grants PA as a racial feat. but sadly, i don't know of any. Just persist Bite of the Werebear, that gives you Power attack as a bonus feat. And a +16 enhancement bonus to str, +8 enhancement bonus to con, and some other goodies like that :D Shapechange + Divine power + Wraithstrike + Bite of the Werebear + Visage of the Deity, greater + Giant size + Righteous might + Divine favor + Blink, greater + Invisibility, superior + Foresight + Unfettered heroism + every other good persistable or long lasting buff you can think of = Pure overkill. I love Artificers!
Caelic 03-08-06, 04:54 PM	Persistent Consumptive Field has long been a favorite of mine for sheer brokenness. Also keep in mind that an Artificer can take truly sickening advantage of Tenser's Transformation and Nightstalker's Transformation. The spells prohibit you from casting spells or using spell trigger items as if you no longer had the spell on your spell list. That's fine. The Artificer doesn't HAVE spells on his spell list; he uses Use Magic Device instead. No penalty there. :)
Pinky's brain 03-08-06, 06:42 PM	His infusions still follow the rules for spells, so you loose your ability to use infusions ... which can be a bit of a pain.
Caelic 03-08-06, 06:53 PM	True, true--but generally, you're not using infusions when you're in hand to hand combat.