Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ming_the_meaningless 10-06-04, 10:01 PM	Hi all, I'm looking to round out an warforged artificer character to get the magical +16BAB at 20th level. Obviously, this will mean the loss of 4 artificer levels for other classes/PrCs with fullBAB. What I'm interested in is options for that last 4 levels in order to round out the character? The 16 artificer levels mean magic item creation as though an 18th level spell caster, which isn't too shabby. Limitations on books are Wizards (web)published only sources (no dragon mag), with a preference on non-campaign-specific material (reduces the GM hurdle, as I'm not even sure he'll allow an artificer yet). As most of my feats will be going on metamagic and artificer specific feats (Legendary Artisan etc), I'd prefer reduced entrance feat requirements. I suspect my best option may be Ranger 2/Fighter2 early, and pack a monks belt component and use Battlefists. This helps with the two poor saves and gives good feats and abilities for no entrance requirements. I tried to get Shou Disciple 4 into the build, but the entrance requirements are a bit steep (and as mentioned earlier, increased possible DM hurdle). The character would enter play at 10th level, however I'm not that concerned with "early maturation", as the build will be pretty simple compared to some of the builds on this board. Any help gratefully appreciated! Thanks, Mike
scrollreader 10-07-04, 12:55 AM	Er ... what's the point of getting BAB 16 with an artificer? Honestly. It will make a difference of one extra attack at, at most ... 3 levels for you. Unless you're concerned with epic level play, honestly, I wouldn't bother. Your best offensive options (scorching ray, searing light, enervation, lesser orbs, etc) really don't care about your BAB. The only real advantage I can see to BAB +16 is epic play. And we're talking about /massive/ craft pool loss here, for very little gain, as well as retardation of your effective caster level by /four/ for spells and effects. That means you're making scrolls of fourth level spells, at 10th level. Rather than sixth level spells. Think about that for a moment. If you absolutely /must/ get BAB +16 by twentieth level, your best bet is probably to design an artificer PrC. Go for something with like, craft pools every other level, working off the Warpriest, or Dragonslayer, or something, with BAB +5. Wandslinger, or somesuch. Honestly. It's like losing four levels of cleric to get BAB. When you have perfectly easy access to the cleric buffs, to give you BAB=character level, persistantly, almost at will.
Eyeless Blond 10-07-04, 01:15 AM	Indeed. Like a bard or a monk, there is often very little good reason to break from a pure artificer build, unless you're only taking a very few levels in it to be something else. That, combined with the fact that there are no good artificer PrCs out there yet, makes it difficult to justify leaving the class. The only reason I can see it being important is that epic feat where yo ucan activate a wand once for each attack you get. And really it doesn't matter either because by that time you've got an Epic Divine Power spell Persistant-ed all the time, for practically free with Metamagic Spell Trigger anyway, along with a whole host of cleric and wizard and bard and paladin buffs.
Snicker-Snack 10-07-04, 01:30 AM	I agree with scrollreader. Even if you really want 4 attacks (if you intend to use the "Wand/Staff expertise" feat et epic) There is absolutely no need to lose Artificer levels for Bab, when Full Bab is as easy as a Wand of Divine power + metamagic item. The Artificer is one of the most powerful base class around, maybe the most powerful base class. I can definetily see the loss of one level or more to get some special abilities, but not for Bab. As to what exactly would be the best path to reach +16 Bab, i usually use Fighter 2/Ranger 2 as default (If you actually use Staff expertise, it might be nice, as the bonus fighter feats and Ranger's rapid shot may give you more wand/staff activations/round). But it really depends on what will you do with this character.
ming_the_meaningless 10-07-04, 01:45 AM	You are, of course, right. I was doing my usual "it's a 3/4 BAB progression, small dip equals an extra attack per round" thinking thing. I had forgotten about the persistable divine madness. Not only that, three uneven base classes equals XP penalty. Told you I was a twonk. Thanks guys.....
catharz 10-07-04, 05:12 AM	There is no Epic artificer, and I fear that due to the "low-powered" nature of Eberron, it will never be. Of course, there is the Master Arcane Artisan (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030314a) . So I would just shoot for that at high levels. Nar demonbinder (as always) is probably the best way to qualify.