Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EauVive 03-19-06, 12:13 PM	I have a concept for a character, but I'm just not sure if it's viable. I was wondering if you guys could help me refine it. The idea is to have a Renegade Mastermaker with at least 7 levels in the PrC (but preferably 10) who would have a BAB of 16 or more, yet a good enough CL as an artificer that he can magic himself pretty well. He'd pretty much be the artificer answer to a gish. I've been thinking it over for a while and I can't quite seem to figure out how to make it work. I also had another question after reading the Warforged Artificer Fighter thread below. Could a Renegade Mastermaker have two battlefists and fight with them using the TWF feat suite as if he were wearing two spiked gauntlets? The whole slam thing confuses me. Thanks in advance.
colm_l 03-19-06, 12:37 PM	Since you have access to "divine power" - why bother? I also don't know of any full BAB classes which advance the Artificer
EauVive 03-19-06, 12:50 PM	I was thinking maybe DragonSlayer from the Draconomicon. It's so generic it might apply to the Artificer, and has a full BAB progression as well as assorted bonuses.
catharz 03-19-06, 01:43 PM	I'd go with a Kalashar psionic artificer, if only because you'll be able to do some incredible IUS damage with that battlefist. Well, that and because a psiforged-type Mastermaker is pretty cool. - By the RAW, the mastermaker's battlefist is really odd. It does less damage than a warforged character's. It's a natural attack, but can be used iteratively (still as a natural attack). This is almost outside of the real rules (i.e., author making up stuff which doesn't work). If you use it as written, you can make full iterative attcks with your Battlefist & also with a weapon wielded in the other hand (or unarmed strikes). So, assuming a BAB of 16, you would be looking at 8 attacks. Where it gets really wonky is that your Battlefist is a secondary natural weapon, meaning that your attacks will look like weapon 16/11/6/1 and battlefist 11/6/1/-4. Anyway once you're considered a warforged (at 10th level) you can finally make unarmed strikes with a battlefist (if you're getting monk unarmed damage). If you're a Kalashar, you can implant 4 ectoplasmic fists and (with the battlefist) be doing 5 size categories increased unarmed damage. TWFing with two battlefists first requires that you be a "warforged" monk.
EauVive 03-19-06, 02:19 PM	I'd go with a Kalashar psionic artificer, if only because you'll be able to do some incredible IUS damage with that battlefist. Well, that and because a psiforged-type Mastermaker is pretty cool. I hadn't thought about that possibility. I'll check it out. By the RAW, the mastermaker's battlefist is really odd. It does less damage than a warforged character's. It's a natural attack, but can be used iteratively (still as a natural attack). This is almost outside of the real rules (i.e., author making up stuff which doesn't work). Which probably explains why I have such a hard time understanding how things work. If you use it as written, you can make full iterative attcks with your Battlefist & also with a weapon wielded in the other hand (or unarmed strikes). So, assuming a BAB of 16, you would be looking at 8 attacks. Where it gets really wonky is that your Battlefist is a secondary natural weapon, meaning that your attacks will look like weapon 16/11/6/1 and battlefist 11/6/1/-4. That example is without TWF, right? Anyway once you're considered a warforged (at 10th level) you can finally make unarmed strikes with a battlefist (if you're getting monk unarmed damage). If you're a Kalashar, you can implant 4 ectoplasmic fists and (with the battlefist) be doing 5 size categories increased unarmed damage. Nice trick. TWFing with two battlefists first requires that you be a "warforged" monk. Or use that monk belt wondrous item? *sighs* This is why I usually play blaster mages. The math is crazy but the rules aren't quite as bad as they are with fighters. It would be so much simpler if the battlefists could be treated as light weapons who could also be enhanced as natural weapons. I wanted to try something different this time and I loved the concept of a human artificer gish who fought with grafted metal hands. But it looks like it's pretty much impossible to implement as is. :weep: Thanks for the help, Catharz.
catharz 03-19-06, 02:50 PM	That example is without TWF, right? Yes, yes it is. Or use that monk belt wondrous item? The rules are a little fuzzy on that. Probably yes. I wanted to try something different this time and I loved the concept of a human artificer gish who fought with grafted metal hands. But it looks like it's pretty much impossible to implement as is. :weep: With an understanding DM anything is possible. I'd just try to work it out with him/her. There are plenty of non-broken ways to implement what you want. In fact, if you don't you Sage Advice an artificer can technically UMD to emulate the Warforged race and therefore warforged components. Sure, it's messy, but that's what a mastermaker is. IMO the only reason the Sage came out against this is to allow for the Mastermaker PrC. You'll be unable to emulate any other race, but that's a small price to pay to be the Cyberficer. And lastly, you can always just wear a cursed (can't remove it) enchanted spiked gauntlet and cal it a 'battlefist.' Thanks for the help, Catharz. You're welcome. I'm always happy to confuse the issue ;)