Artificers meeting item prerequisites, ambiguous self-contradiction... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificers meeting item prerequisites, ambiguous self-contradiction... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BarbeChenue
09-25-06, 12:16 AM According to the artificer's Create Item ability the following two clauses seem to contradict each other:

[First Clause] For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer's effective caster level equals his character level +2. If the item duplicates a spell effect, however, it uses the artificer's actual level as its caster level. Thus a 3th-level artificer can make a scroll of fireball, since the minimum caster level for fireball is 5th. He pays the normal cost for making such a scroll with a caster level of 5th: 5 x 3 x 12.5 = 187 gp and 5 sp, plus 15 XP. But the scroll's actual caster level is only 3rd, and it produces a weak fireballthat deals only 3d6 points of damage.

[...]He cannot emulate skill or feat requirements, however, including item creation feat prerequisites.
[Second Clause] He must meet the caster level prerequisite, including the minimum level to cast a spell he stores in a potion, wand, or scroll.

Okay, let's say an artificer wants to craft the aforementionned scroll of fireball, well, by the second clause he can't do it before level 5, where he'll have a caster level of 5.

Am I crazy or this makes no sense at all? Am I reading this right? :mymy:
LogicNinja
09-25-06, 12:24 AM ...he must meet the caster level prerequisite.

And his effective caster level for meeting item prerequisites is (artificer level + 2).

Where's the contradiction? The second clause just means he can't make a scroll of Fireball at level 2.
Laramon
09-25-06, 01:42 AM What it's saying is that if the item requires you to be able to cast fireball as part of the creation process, you can fool it into thinking you are +2 caster level at creation time.

Which means that he qualifies at the time he creates it. The spell is still CL3, but you still made it.
Elderich
09-25-06, 01:23 PM What it's saying is that if the item requires you to be able to cast fireball as part of the creation process, you can fool it into thinking you are +2 caster level at creation time.

Which means that he qualifies at the time he creates it. The spell is still CL3, but you still made it.If this is so, why does the second clause exsist?
What is the Second clause saying that is not covered by the first clause?

So an artificer has access to any spell (that can be put into an item he can make) one level before any other caster?

Why does the part where (Sorry, AFB) the artificer cannot emulate a spell over 1/2 his caster level, exsist?
FriendlyFrog
09-25-06, 01:35 PM Why does the part where (Sorry, AFB) the artificer cannot emulate a spell over 1/2 his caster level, exsist?
What rule? There's nothing like that in my ECS.

Artificers get access to new level of spells 2 levels before than normal casters, thus they are always one spell level up ahead. They even use a level 3 Artificer crafting a wand of Fireball (as we all know, a 3rd level spell) as an examle of item crafting.
Pinky's brain
09-25-06, 02:42 PM That is most definetely a houserule Elderich.
scalpel
09-26-06, 03:24 PM Why does the part where (Sorry, AFB) the artificer cannot emulate a spell over 1/2 his caster level, exsist?

That is part of the level 1 "spell storing" infusion it has no bearing on anything else the artificier does.
eRaz0r
10-02-06, 07:09 PM If this is so, why does the second clause exsist?
What is the Second clause saying that is not covered by the first clause?

The second clause is adding extra information. Some items specifically mention an actual caster level requirement (such as Cloak Of Resistance, which requires the creator to have a CL 3x the bonus given by the item). The artificer must meet this prereq, in addition to meeting the prereq of the spell (he includes his +2 CL bonus to meet the latter, but not the former).

So an artificer has access to any spell (that can be put into an item he can make) one level before any other caster?

Two levels. It's +2 CL, so he's always a spell-level ahead.
So yeah, that means a 3rd level Artificer can make a scroll of fireball - even though the wizard can't even cast one for 2 more levels. The actual caster level of the scroll is only 3rd though, so it's a weak fireball of 3d6.
The other limitation is that the Artificer still has to meet any feat requirements, so that effectively limits his main advantage here to scrolls and wondrous items. He won't be making wands till he's 7th level anyway, which is coincidentally the same level that the Wizard can cast 4th level spells - the maximum spell level that can go into a wand, and therefore there's no real advantage there.
Elderich
10-05-06, 06:38 PM Sorry all;
I got confused with Spell Storing Item, the Infusion. That infusion ONLY has the restriction I stated.

Sorry for the confusion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BarbeChenue 09-25-06, 12:16 AM	According to the artificer's Create Item ability the following two clauses seem to contradict each other: [First Clause] For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer's effective caster level equals his character level +2. If the item duplicates a spell effect, however, it uses the artificer's actual level as its caster level. Thus a 3th-level artificer can make a scroll of fireball, since the minimum caster level for fireball is 5th. He pays the normal cost for making such a scroll with a caster level of 5th: 5 x 3 x 12.5 = 187 gp and 5 sp, plus 15 XP. But the scroll's actual caster level is only 3rd, and it produces a weak fireballthat deals only 3d6 points of damage. [...]He cannot emulate skill or feat requirements, however, including item creation feat prerequisites. [Second Clause] He must meet the caster level prerequisite, including the minimum level to cast a spell he stores in a potion, wand, or scroll. Okay, let's say an artificer wants to craft the aforementionned scroll of fireball, well, by the second clause he can't do it before level 5, where he'll have a caster level of 5. Am I crazy or this makes no sense at all? Am I reading this right? :mymy:
LogicNinja 09-25-06, 12:24 AM	...he must meet the caster level prerequisite. And his effective caster level for meeting item prerequisites is (artificer level + 2). Where's the contradiction? The second clause just means he can't make a scroll of Fireball at level 2.
Laramon 09-25-06, 01:42 AM	What it's saying is that if the item requires you to be able to cast fireball as part of the creation process, you can fool it into thinking you are +2 caster level at creation time. Which means that he qualifies at the time he creates it. The spell is still CL3, but you still made it.
Elderich 09-25-06, 01:23 PM	What it's saying is that if the item requires you to be able to cast fireball as part of the creation process, you can fool it into thinking you are +2 caster level at creation time. Which means that he qualifies at the time he creates it. The spell is still CL3, but you still made it.If this is so, why does the second clause exsist? What is the Second clause saying that is not covered by the first clause? So an artificer has access to any spell (that can be put into an item he can make) one level before any other caster? Why does the part where (Sorry, AFB) the artificer cannot emulate a spell over 1/2 his caster level, exsist?
FriendlyFrog 09-25-06, 01:35 PM	Why does the part where (Sorry, AFB) the artificer cannot emulate a spell over 1/2 his caster level, exsist? What rule? There's nothing like that in my ECS. Artificers get access to new level of spells 2 levels before than normal casters, thus they are always one spell level up ahead. They even use a level 3 Artificer crafting a wand of Fireball (as we all know, a 3rd level spell) as an examle of item crafting.
Pinky's brain 09-25-06, 02:42 PM	That is most definetely a houserule Elderich.
scalpel 09-26-06, 03:24 PM	Why does the part where (Sorry, AFB) the artificer cannot emulate a spell over 1/2 his caster level, exsist? That is part of the level 1 "spell storing" infusion it has no bearing on anything else the artificier does.
eRaz0r 10-02-06, 07:09 PM	If this is so, why does the second clause exsist? What is the Second clause saying that is not covered by the first clause? The second clause is adding extra information. Some items specifically mention an actual caster level requirement (such as Cloak Of Resistance, which requires the creator to have a CL 3x the bonus given by the item). The artificer must meet this prereq, in addition to meeting the prereq of the spell (he includes his +2 CL bonus to meet the latter, but not the former). So an artificer has access to any spell (that can be put into an item he can make) one level before any other caster? Two levels. It's +2 CL, so he's always a spell-level ahead. So yeah, that means a 3rd level Artificer can make a scroll of fireball - even though the wizard can't even cast one for 2 more levels. The actual caster level of the scroll is only 3rd though, so it's a weak fireball of 3d6. The other limitation is that the Artificer still has to meet any feat requirements, so that effectively limits his main advantage here to scrolls and wondrous items. He won't be making wands till he's 7th level anyway, which is coincidentally the same level that the Wizard can cast 4th level spells - the maximum spell level that can go into a wand, and therefore there's no real advantage there.
Elderich 10-05-06, 06:38 PM	Sorry all; I got confused with Spell Storing Item, the Infusion. That infusion ONLY has the restriction I stated. Sorry for the confusion.