Artificers - ocular spell combined with chain spell is your friend! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificers - ocular spell combined with chain spell is your friend! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sir Gummibaerchen
03-27-06, 01:48 PM It ocurred to me that nothing stops an Artificer of at least 11th level to use both ocular spell and a rod of chain spell, lesser on his Metamagic Item infusion. So you can apply a metamagic feat to 1+CL wands.

This is really cool in conjunction with persistent spell and eternal wands of some of the cool arcane buff spells from the SpC (Nightshield and Swift Fly for example). Or twin your whole collection of wands...

Anybody got ideas how to abuse this?
jstorrie
03-27-06, 02:34 PM Many DMs interpret Metamagic Item and Metamagic Spell Trigger as only allowing one metamagic feat, so watch out!
Kirby179
03-27-06, 04:12 PM another problem is that many dm's will consider a spell's level post-metamagic (i.e. the level you would have had to prepare the spell as, rather than it's actual spell level) for which metamagic rods will be allowed to effect it.

Similar to the 'Why can't I put an empowered shivering touch into a spell storing weapon' issue, once you metamagic a spell, and try and treat it as a lower level spell for another reason, it starts to run into game balance issues that most DMs will pick up on.
The Rizz
03-27-06, 06:52 PM Occular spell turns everything into rays.
Chain spell requires that the spell specifies a single target.
Rays spells do not technically have a target (look up any ray spell - none ever has a "Target: xxxx" line, they have "Effect: xxx Ray(s)" instead).

So, unfortunately, by RAW it cannot work.
smrtgmp
03-27-06, 10:56 PM the Rizz is right. Ray spells do not have a target in the mechanical sense.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
03-27-06, 11:09 PM That ludicrous, a ray spell has the target: ranged touch. You cannot touch more than one person at once, so its target is necessarily singular.
thorian
03-27-06, 11:38 PM That ludicrous, a ray spell has the target: ranged touch. You cannot touch more than one person at once, so its target is necessarily singular.
You may think it is ludicrous, but it is RAW. It is the same reason spell turning does not reflect a disintegrate spell. A ray spell creates an effect; they are not spells with "target" entries.
LogicNinja
03-27-06, 11:38 PM No--the ray spell creates a ray for you. Then you attack with the ray. You're targetting someone, the spell isn't.
Lokiyn
03-27-06, 11:54 PM use the lens of ray chaining, to avoid any raw arguments.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir Gummibaerchen 03-27-06, 01:48 PM	It ocurred to me that nothing stops an Artificer of at least 11th level to use both ocular spell and a rod of chain spell, lesser on his Metamagic Item infusion. So you can apply a metamagic feat to 1+CL wands. This is really cool in conjunction with persistent spell and eternal wands of some of the cool arcane buff spells from the SpC (Nightshield and Swift Fly for example). Or twin your whole collection of wands... Anybody got ideas how to abuse this?
jstorrie 03-27-06, 02:34 PM	Many DMs interpret Metamagic Item and Metamagic Spell Trigger as only allowing one metamagic feat, so watch out!
Kirby179 03-27-06, 04:12 PM	another problem is that many dm's will consider a spell's level post-metamagic (i.e. the level you would have had to prepare the spell as, rather than it's actual spell level) for which metamagic rods will be allowed to effect it. Similar to the 'Why can't I put an empowered shivering touch into a spell storing weapon' issue, once you metamagic a spell, and try and treat it as a lower level spell for another reason, it starts to run into game balance issues that most DMs will pick up on.
The Rizz 03-27-06, 06:52 PM	Occular spell turns everything into rays. Chain spell requires that the spell specifies a single target. Rays spells do not technically have a target (look up any ray spell - none ever has a "Target: xxxx" line, they have "Effect: xxx Ray(s)" instead). So, unfortunately, by RAW it cannot work.
smrtgmp 03-27-06, 10:56 PM	the Rizz is right. Ray spells do not have a target in the mechanical sense.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 03-27-06, 11:09 PM	That ludicrous, a ray spell has the target: ranged touch. You cannot touch more than one person at once, so its target is necessarily singular.
thorian 03-27-06, 11:38 PM	That ludicrous, a ray spell has the target: ranged touch. You cannot touch more than one person at once, so its target is necessarily singular. You may think it is ludicrous, but it is RAW. It is the same reason spell turning does not reflect a disintegrate spell. A ray spell creates an effect; they are not spells with "target" entries.
LogicNinja 03-27-06, 11:38 PM	No--the ray spell creates a ray for you. Then you attack with the ray. You're targetting someone, the spell isn't.
Lokiyn 03-27-06, 11:54 PM	use the lens of ray chaining, to avoid any raw arguments.