Asassin Build Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Asassin Build Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ectoplasmoid
06-05-05, 12:34 PM As you might have surmised, I've been trying to come up with a good build for a couple days now, but I'm pretty confident with this one.

(???) Rogue 4/ Ranger 2/Assassin 8
HP:103
Saves: Fort+12, Ref +21, Will +9

Str 14
Dex 22
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 14
Cha 10

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(Dagger)
Skills: Hide 17 , Move Silently 17, Spot 17, Listen 17, Search 17, Tumble 15, Disguise 10, Bluff 10, Sense Motive 10, UMD 15, Disable Device 15, Open Lock 15, Survival 5, Sleight of Hand 10.
Spells Known:(4/4/4/3)
1st: True Strike, Disguise Self, Jump, Feather Fall.
2nd: Alter Self, Invisiblity, Spider Climb, Undetectable Alignment.
3rd: Deep Slumber, Deeper Darkness, False Life, Misdirection.
4th: Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement.
Spells per day: 4/4/4/2
Items: Headband of Wisdom +4, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Amulet of Health +4, 2 Asassin's Daggers, +3 Mithral Shirt of Shadow , Vest of Resistance +3, Heward's Handy Haversack, Boots of Elvenkind, Cloak of Charisma+2, Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds

A Number of Questions:
1) What race do I pick?
2) I have two-three feats still available. What do I use them on? Perhaps Improved Feint, but what else?
3) I have 6000 gp to spend on scrolls/pots/wands- what are some good ones
Jenos
06-05-05, 12:51 PM Well, since you seem on using a dagger, have you considered invisible blade? IIRC You just need to get PBS and Far Shot(Useless feats), but then, with 5 levels, you can get the ability to feint as a free action while wielding a dagger.

Also, equipment wise, are you allowed to manipulate it? If so, I would consider dropping the periapt of wisdom, or maybe just down to a +2. If you can dropping it to +2 will net you 12k. Spend 7k of that to upgrade your vest of resistance +3->+4, and you end up with the same will save, but a better fort and ref save, AND 5k more.

Race wise, are you allowed tiefling? That would give you +2 Dex, +2 Int, and -2 Cha. Thats 1 more first level spell per day for the Assasin spells, and the +2 Dex helps out a lot.

IMO, improved feint isn't worth it if you just get the feat. If you were to get the class ability from Invis Blade, it becoems useful, but to waste your feats on improved feint isn't good because two weapon rogues focus on flanking, then letting loose with a major full attack of sneak attackiness.
dragonseth
06-05-05, 02:01 PM I always thought a good assassin build was Rogue 5/Assassin 10/Invisible Blade 5. Dunno about you though.
rilem
06-05-05, 03:17 PM Is this Core-Only? You're missing out on a lot of good stuff. (spells, prcs, etc.)

Two assassin's daggers? Pointless. You don't get two chances to make a death attack.

What are you trying to accomplish? If you're looking to maximize your death attack, you should flesh out your build with Telflammar Shadowlord or Dark Hunter or something else similar. For dagger fighters, Invisible Blade is certainly good.

Rogue 4 is pointless, as assassins get Uncanny Dodge.

Swashbuckler is probably better than ranger for the Int. Synergy.

1. Swash3/Rogue3/Assassin8/Shadowlord6
BAB +15, Spring Attack model, 14 levels of death attack, Int. to damage, blur, ShadowPounce, 4th level Asn spells, 3rd level Shadowlord spells

2. Swash3/Rogue2/Assassin8/InvisibleBlade5/BayushiDeciver2
BAB +16, TWF style, Int. to Damage, AC & Initiative, free-action feint, 4th level Asn Spells, Sneak Attack +9d6

edit:

Some other points

1. Headband of Wisdom +4: I'm going to assume this is a typo. You want Intelligence, not wisdom.

2. Race: Human

3. Feat: depends on what your focus is and what books are allowed.
Ectoplasmoid
06-05-05, 06:44 PM But Rog4 nets me an extra BAB, and Uncanny dodge stacks anyway.
More to the point- and I'm kind of embarassed to say this on the CharOp boards- Rogue fits my character concept much better than swashbuckler, and I get more skills.

I'm planning on going Invisible Blade the rest of the way, using the more logical prereqs of Weapon Focus and Finesse. For combat, I was expecting to either go invisible and unleash stabbity death, or do the same for the shadows, or flanks and do the same thing. Anyway, I was planning on beating up one of my party members for the IB requirement.

So assuming I cut out the Assasin's dagger, is a +1 wounding dagger a good replacement?
rilem
06-05-05, 10:28 PM But Rog4 nets me an extra BAB, and Uncanny dodge stacks anyway.

Assassin gets BOTH uncanny dodges. Stacking three uncanny dodges give you nothing. And I'm not suggesting swapping the swashbuckler for rogue, but for ranger.

Relying on invisibility to set up sneak attacks doesn't work at high levels -- too many opponents can see invisible attackers. HiPS and Feinting is a better option.

Actually you should dump both assassin daggers and get +1 wounding daggers if that's an option. The death attack of the assassin is really nothing that spectacular, unless you are actually playing an assassin — knocking off merchants and nobles with poor fort saves. Against most things that real adventurers are fighting, it won't help you much.
Ectoplasmoid
06-06-05, 05:51 AM Alright, thanks for all the help! I've turned my character into a rog2/swb3/rog1/asn8.

Here's the sheet as it stands:

Mikela

Human Rogue 2/Swashbucker 3/Rogue1/Assassin 8
HP:107
Saves: Fort+13, Ref +20, Will +11
Full Attack:+16/+11/+6/+16/+11(1d4+7/1d4+7)
Speed: 30 Feet
Initiative:+10
Str 14
Dex 22
Con 18
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 10

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(Dagger), Iron Will, Improved Initiative.
Skills: Hide +25 , Move Silently +25, Spot +14, Listen +14, Search +19, Tumble +23, Disguise +10, Bluff +15, Sense Motive +15, UMD +15, Disable Device +20, Open Lock +19, Sleight of Hand +16.
Spells Known:
1st: True Strike, Disguise Self, Jump, Feather Fall.
2nd: Alter Self, Invisiblity, Spider Climb, Undetectable Alignment.
3rd: Deep Slumber, Deeper Darkness, False Life, Misdirection.
4th: Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement.
Spells per day: 4/4/4/2
Class Features:+6d6 Sneak Attack, 12th Level Uncanny Dodge, Evasion
Items: Headband of Intellect +2, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Amulet of Health +4, 2 +1 Wounding daggers, +1 Light Crossbow, +3 Mithral Shirt of Shadow, Ring of Protection +2, Ring of Feather Falling, Vest of Resistance +4, Heward's Handy Haversack, Boots of Elvenkind, Cloak of Charisma+2, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Boot Sheath, Assorted Mundane Junk, 3950 gp.

1) I think I might need better feats than Iron will and Imp Init.
2) How do I play this character until I get to IB?
3) Should I try getting cloak dance to net me concealment?
Orkz
06-06-05, 12:36 PM Rogue 1 (Trapfinding, Starting Skills)
Monk 2 (good unarmed, Evasion, WIS to AC, Saves)
Fighter 2 (2 Feats, good BAB)
Ranger 1 (Track, Favoured enemy: human)

now i'm stuck a little bit... 1 more level something... sorcerer 1?

Ninja Spy 1-4 (+10 swim, climb, thumble, balance, etc. and always take 10, hide on plain sight, good saves)

Ninja of the Crescent Moon 10 (muharharhar, expecialy if you manage to keep your GM from noticing it has been errated -> monk saves and AC bonus, full fighter BAB, sneak attack dice, alter self, gaseous form, always take 10 on hide and move silently)

The problem is, we need rank 10 skills for Ninja Spy and would end as NotCrM at 9 (=CL 20)

any ideas? i am still working on it...

Good combat option: spring attack. Move to your enemy, attack, move away + use "hide on plain sight"

EDIT:
Race -> Whisper gnome!!! +4 Move Silently (race) and +8 Hide (Race and size) and a build in silence spell
rilem
06-06-05, 12:47 PM Improved Initiative is ALWAYS good for a sneak-attacker. Foes are flat-footed at the start of a fight.

Your will save is too high. Base is +3, +4 from Vest, +2 from Iron Will = +9.

Depending on what books are allowed, you could take regional feat Bullheaded (PGF, +2 to Will and can't be shaken). Better than Iron Will, and still helps a weak spot for you.

Also, from the OA 3.5 update (Dragon) — Keen Intellect, which lets you apply your Int. mod. to Will saves.

Also, you're missing a feat slot, I think. Swashbucklers get Finesse for free.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ectoplasmoid 06-05-05, 12:34 PM	As you might have surmised, I've been trying to come up with a good build for a couple days now, but I'm pretty confident with this one. (???) Rogue 4/ Ranger 2/Assassin 8 HP:103 Saves: Fort+12, Ref +21, Will +9 Str 14 Dex 22 Con 18 Int 18 Wis 14 Cha 10 Feats: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(Dagger) Skills: Hide 17 , Move Silently 17, Spot 17, Listen 17, Search 17, Tumble 15, Disguise 10, Bluff 10, Sense Motive 10, UMD 15, Disable Device 15, Open Lock 15, Survival 5, Sleight of Hand 10. Spells Known:(4/4/4/3) 1st: True Strike, Disguise Self, Jump, Feather Fall. 2nd: Alter Self, Invisiblity, Spider Climb, Undetectable Alignment. 3rd: Deep Slumber, Deeper Darkness, False Life, Misdirection. 4th: Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement. Spells per day: 4/4/4/2 Items: Headband of Wisdom +4, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Amulet of Health +4, 2 Asassin's Daggers, +3 Mithral Shirt of Shadow , Vest of Resistance +3, Heward's Handy Haversack, Boots of Elvenkind, Cloak of Charisma+2, Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds A Number of Questions: 1) What race do I pick? 2) I have two-three feats still available. What do I use them on? Perhaps Improved Feint, but what else? 3) I have 6000 gp to spend on scrolls/pots/wands- what are some good ones
Jenos 06-05-05, 12:51 PM	Well, since you seem on using a dagger, have you considered invisible blade? IIRC You just need to get PBS and Far Shot(Useless feats), but then, with 5 levels, you can get the ability to feint as a free action while wielding a dagger. Also, equipment wise, are you allowed to manipulate it? If so, I would consider dropping the periapt of wisdom, or maybe just down to a +2. If you can dropping it to +2 will net you 12k. Spend 7k of that to upgrade your vest of resistance +3->+4, and you end up with the same will save, but a better fort and ref save, AND 5k more. Race wise, are you allowed tiefling? That would give you +2 Dex, +2 Int, and -2 Cha. Thats 1 more first level spell per day for the Assasin spells, and the +2 Dex helps out a lot. IMO, improved feint isn't worth it if you just get the feat. If you were to get the class ability from Invis Blade, it becoems useful, but to waste your feats on improved feint isn't good because two weapon rogues focus on flanking, then letting loose with a major full attack of sneak attackiness.
dragonseth 06-05-05, 02:01 PM	I always thought a good assassin build was Rogue 5/Assassin 10/Invisible Blade 5. Dunno about you though.
rilem 06-05-05, 03:17 PM	Is this Core-Only? You're missing out on a lot of good stuff. (spells, prcs, etc.) Two assassin's daggers? Pointless. You don't get two chances to make a death attack. What are you trying to accomplish? If you're looking to maximize your death attack, you should flesh out your build with Telflammar Shadowlord or Dark Hunter or something else similar. For dagger fighters, Invisible Blade is certainly good. Rogue 4 is pointless, as assassins get Uncanny Dodge. Swashbuckler is probably better than ranger for the Int. Synergy. 1. Swash3/Rogue3/Assassin8/Shadowlord6 BAB +15, Spring Attack model, 14 levels of death attack, Int. to damage, blur, ShadowPounce, 4th level Asn spells, 3rd level Shadowlord spells 2. Swash3/Rogue2/Assassin8/InvisibleBlade5/BayushiDeciver2 BAB +16, TWF style, Int. to Damage, AC & Initiative, free-action feint, 4th level Asn Spells, Sneak Attack +9d6 edit: Some other points 1. Headband of Wisdom +4: I'm going to assume this is a typo. You want Intelligence, not wisdom. 2. Race: Human 3. Feat: depends on what your focus is and what books are allowed.
Ectoplasmoid 06-05-05, 06:44 PM	But Rog4 nets me an extra BAB, and Uncanny dodge stacks anyway. More to the point- and I'm kind of embarassed to say this on the CharOp boards- Rogue fits my character concept much better than swashbuckler, and I get more skills. I'm planning on going Invisible Blade the rest of the way, using the more logical prereqs of Weapon Focus and Finesse. For combat, I was expecting to either go invisible and unleash stabbity death, or do the same for the shadows, or flanks and do the same thing. Anyway, I was planning on beating up one of my party members for the IB requirement. So assuming I cut out the Assasin's dagger, is a +1 wounding dagger a good replacement?
rilem 06-05-05, 10:28 PM	But Rog4 nets me an extra BAB, and Uncanny dodge stacks anyway. Assassin gets BOTH uncanny dodges. Stacking three uncanny dodges give you nothing. And I'm not suggesting swapping the swashbuckler for rogue, but for ranger. Relying on invisibility to set up sneak attacks doesn't work at high levels -- too many opponents can see invisible attackers. HiPS and Feinting is a better option. Actually you should dump both assassin daggers and get +1 wounding daggers if that's an option. The death attack of the assassin is really nothing that spectacular, unless you are actually playing an assassin — knocking off merchants and nobles with poor fort saves. Against most things that real adventurers are fighting, it won't help you much.
Ectoplasmoid 06-06-05, 05:51 AM	Alright, thanks for all the help! I've turned my character into a rog2/swb3/rog1/asn8. Here's the sheet as it stands: Mikela Human Rogue 2/Swashbucker 3/Rogue1/Assassin 8 HP:107 Saves: Fort+13, Ref +20, Will +11 Full Attack:+16/+11/+6/+16/+11(1d4+7/1d4+7) Speed: 30 Feet Initiative:+10 Str 14 Dex 22 Con 18 Int 20 Wis 10 Cha 10 Feats: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(Dagger), Iron Will, Improved Initiative. Skills: Hide +25 , Move Silently +25, Spot +14, Listen +14, Search +19, Tumble +23, Disguise +10, Bluff +15, Sense Motive +15, UMD +15, Disable Device +20, Open Lock +19, Sleight of Hand +16. Spells Known: 1st: True Strike, Disguise Self, Jump, Feather Fall. 2nd: Alter Self, Invisiblity, Spider Climb, Undetectable Alignment. 3rd: Deep Slumber, Deeper Darkness, False Life, Misdirection. 4th: Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement. Spells per day: 4/4/4/2 Class Features:+6d6 Sneak Attack, 12th Level Uncanny Dodge, Evasion Items: Headband of Intellect +2, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Amulet of Health +4, 2 +1 Wounding daggers, +1 Light Crossbow, +3 Mithral Shirt of Shadow, Ring of Protection +2, Ring of Feather Falling, Vest of Resistance +4, Heward's Handy Haversack, Boots of Elvenkind, Cloak of Charisma+2, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Boot Sheath, Assorted Mundane Junk, 3950 gp. 1) I think I might need better feats than Iron will and Imp Init. 2) How do I play this character until I get to IB? 3) Should I try getting cloak dance to net me concealment?
Orkz 06-06-05, 12:36 PM	Rogue 1 (Trapfinding, Starting Skills) Monk 2 (good unarmed, Evasion, WIS to AC, Saves) Fighter 2 (2 Feats, good BAB) Ranger 1 (Track, Favoured enemy: human) now i'm stuck a little bit... 1 more level something... sorcerer 1? Ninja Spy 1-4 (+10 swim, climb, thumble, balance, etc. and always take 10, hide on plain sight, good saves) Ninja of the Crescent Moon 10 (muharharhar, expecialy if you manage to keep your GM from noticing it has been errated -> monk saves and AC bonus, full fighter BAB, sneak attack dice, alter self, gaseous form, always take 10 on hide and move silently) The problem is, we need rank 10 skills for Ninja Spy and would end as NotCrM at 9 (=CL 20) any ideas? i am still working on it... Good combat option: spring attack. Move to your enemy, attack, move away + use "hide on plain sight" EDIT: Race -> Whisper gnome!!! +4 Move Silently (race) and +8 Hide (Race and size) and a build in silence spell
rilem 06-06-05, 12:47 PM	Improved Initiative is ALWAYS good for a sneak-attacker. Foes are flat-footed at the start of a fight. Your will save is too high. Base is +3, +4 from Vest, +2 from Iron Will = +9. Depending on what books are allowed, you could take regional feat Bullheaded (PGF, +2 to Will and can't be shaken). Better than Iron Will, and still helps a weak spot for you. Also, from the OA 3.5 update (Dragon) — Keen Intellect, which lets you apply your Int. mod. to Will saves. Also, you're missing a feat slot, I think. Swashbucklers get Finesse for free.