Ascetic feats worth it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ascetic feats worth it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
colyn kell
12-24-05, 01:02 PM For purposes of a min/max character, like, say, monk/rogue, are the ascetic feats worth it?
I'm looking (mainly for flavor) at making an Aasimar monk/rogue with a few flavor feats, but still want my character to have a little umph.
Opinions?
jedrious
12-24-05, 01:35 PM Monk1/Rogue19 with Ascetic Rogue gets full monk unarmed damage and full rogue sneak attack, nuff said
nastynate
12-24-05, 01:37 PM Is that good? :devil:
tsuyoshikentsu
12-24-05, 03:36 PM Um... Yes?
HCCommander
12-24-05, 03:48 PM I think the Ascetic and Devoted Feats are an interesting build helping choice for multiclass characters. Some are weak, some are playable, and some
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=382372
are broken.

For most of these feats, however, I'd say build you character first and then look if there's one of those feat that fits and makes it more powerful.
nastynate
12-24-05, 09:01 PM I disagree. The ascetic feats are better with a one or two level dip, to exploit them, than they are with the characters they were meant to be used in conjunction with. I get the feeling that these feats were designed with evenly split monk 10 / rogue 10 type characters in mind, so that you didn't loose out on all your scaling abilities.

Look at the afore mentioned monk 1 / rogue 19. This gives you a rogue with a 20th level monk's unarmed damage. The same could be said for ascetic knight, with a monk 1 / paladin 19, to a lesser extent. They make it so you can get unfair unarmed damage with character's that are predominantly not monks. These are really just used as Vow of Poverty enablers, rather than in the spirit for which they were created.

Though not overtly broken in a mechanical sense, the ascetic feats are poorly designed.
Amphetryon
12-24-05, 10:34 PM These are really just used as Vow of Poverty enablers, rather than in the spirit for which they were created.

Given that VoP has been shown to be less than uber at high levels of play due to the lack of other forms of locomotion, I fail to see how this is really a problem. I suppose one could get around some of that with Monk 1/Paladin 19 with a flying Mount, but you won't be likely to add much oomph to the charge, relatively speaking, without any equipment.
GDarius
12-24-05, 11:29 PM Personally, and I realize I may be in the minority here, the main reasons I'd take Monk levels as a Rogue are the increased movement speed and the Flurry of Blows ability.

The Ascetic feats don't help. As a rogue, I really wouldn't be worried about the Unarmed Damage, as my Sneak Attack is my main hurt-source. The increased stunning DC is sometimes useful, but not enough that I'd wase the feat. Really, all you get out of Ascetic Rogue (and this is only AT level 20) is a chunk of potential damage (you'd be using the Monk's 2d10 unarmed damage, as opposed to the rogue's 1d6 dagger damage).

By that time, if you've maxed Rogue levels, you should have +10d6 sneak attack. The extra damage you get from Monk wouldn't be significant unless your foe wasn't flat-footed.

The thing is, with your tiny hit die, you really shouldn't be fighting in any situation where your opponent would be able to see you coming or hit you back.

On the other hand, if you were planning to max Monk levels, Ascetic Rogue wouldn't help you (as the full description DOESN'T say anything about Monk levels stacking with Rogue for Sneak Attack purposes. So a 1 Rogue/ 19 Monk would be sneak attacking as a 1 Rogue).

The only situation this is worth it in, is if you plan on balancing your levels of Monk and Rogue. A Rogue 10/Monk 10 would be pretty well-rounded at 5d6 Sneak, 2d10 Unarmed, one penalty-free Flurry hit, and (most importantly) +30 ft movement speed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
colyn kell 12-24-05, 01:02 PM	For purposes of a min/max character, like, say, monk/rogue, are the ascetic feats worth it? I'm looking (mainly for flavor) at making an Aasimar monk/rogue with a few flavor feats, but still want my character to have a little umph. Opinions?
jedrious 12-24-05, 01:35 PM	Monk1/Rogue19 with Ascetic Rogue gets full monk unarmed damage and full rogue sneak attack, nuff said
nastynate 12-24-05, 01:37 PM	Is that good? :devil:
tsuyoshikentsu 12-24-05, 03:36 PM	Um... Yes?
HCCommander 12-24-05, 03:48 PM	I think the Ascetic and Devoted Feats are an interesting build helping choice for multiclass characters. Some are weak, some are playable, and some http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=382372 are broken. For most of these feats, however, I'd say build you character first and then look if there's one of those feat that fits and makes it more powerful.
nastynate 12-24-05, 09:01 PM	I disagree. The ascetic feats are better with a one or two level dip, to exploit them, than they are with the characters they were meant to be used in conjunction with. I get the feeling that these feats were designed with evenly split monk 10 / rogue 10 type characters in mind, so that you didn't loose out on all your scaling abilities. Look at the afore mentioned monk 1 / rogue 19. This gives you a rogue with a 20th level monk's unarmed damage. The same could be said for ascetic knight, with a monk 1 / paladin 19, to a lesser extent. They make it so you can get unfair unarmed damage with character's that are predominantly not monks. These are really just used as Vow of Poverty enablers, rather than in the spirit for which they were created. Though not overtly broken in a mechanical sense, the ascetic feats are poorly designed.
Amphetryon 12-24-05, 10:34 PM	These are really just used as Vow of Poverty enablers, rather than in the spirit for which they were created. Given that VoP has been shown to be less than uber at high levels of play due to the lack of other forms of locomotion, I fail to see how this is really a problem. I suppose one could get around some of that with Monk 1/Paladin 19 with a flying Mount, but you won't be likely to add much oomph to the charge, relatively speaking, without any equipment.
GDarius 12-24-05, 11:29 PM	Personally, and I realize I may be in the minority here, the main reasons I'd take Monk levels as a Rogue are the increased movement speed and the Flurry of Blows ability. The Ascetic feats don't help. As a rogue, I really wouldn't be worried about the Unarmed Damage, as my Sneak Attack is my main hurt-source. The increased stunning DC is sometimes useful, but not enough that I'd wase the feat. Really, all you get out of Ascetic Rogue (and this is only AT level 20) is a chunk of potential damage (you'd be using the Monk's 2d10 unarmed damage, as opposed to the rogue's 1d6 dagger damage). By that time, if you've maxed Rogue levels, you should have +10d6 sneak attack. The extra damage you get from Monk wouldn't be significant unless your foe wasn't flat-footed. The thing is, with your tiny hit die, you really shouldn't be fighting in any situation where your opponent would be able to see you coming or hit you back. On the other hand, if you were planning to max Monk levels, Ascetic Rogue wouldn't help you (as the full description DOESN'T say anything about Monk levels stacking with Rogue for Sneak Attack purposes. So a 1 Rogue/ 19 Monk would be sneak attacking as a 1 Rogue). The only situation this is worth it in, is if you plan on balancing your levels of Monk and Rogue. A Rogue 10/Monk 10 would be pretty well-rounded at 5d6 Sneak, 2d10 Unarmed, one penalty-free Flurry hit, and (most importantly) +30 ft movement speed.