Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonseth 07-18-05, 09:48 PM	For my next character I was thinking of a Soulknife with VoP. Probably gonna go for Saint. Is Saint a good idea? Is this idea viable in the first place? Any hints/tips for this guy feat/skills/anything wise? Never messed with VoP or Soulknife before.
rilem 07-18-05, 10:14 PM	Carnivore's got an excellent VoP soulknife, but the VoP doesn't kick in until the end (after you've spent most of your cash on ability-enhancing wishes and the like). Rocks at a high level. What books are available? Races of Eberron is almost required. Saint is good with just about anything, but it doesn't fix many of the problems of the VoP — limitations against foes with flight, many types of DR, invisibility, etc.
dragonseth 07-18-05, 10:31 PM	Could I get a link to Carnivore's? As for books, I have: Core, XPH, ELH, RoTW, CW, CD, CAdv, D&D, SS, and BoED.
rilem 07-18-05, 10:50 PM	Sadly, I don't save links as often as I should. I barely save my own stuff. Chances are he'll pop up; if not you could always PM him.
Eytan 07-19-05, 12:48 AM	I thought saint was errated to a much higher Level adjustment than as printed. Either way, VOP is perfect for Soulknives. Just take Soulknife to 5th or 6th level, then find a PrC or other class that in some way allows flight. Make sure you take aligned weapon. If you really want to improve your DR fighting capabilities, take Kensai (assuming your DM approves that) and buy up some abilities not usual available to a Soul Knife (if metalline is available that would rock). Either way, you end up with 2 +5 shortswords at the end which is something no non-VOP soulknife could do anyway. Your defense is probably much better than most Soulknives anyway. If you could convince your GM to allow pyrokineticist into the mix, you could get an additional +4d6 fire damage on all your numerous +5 shortsword attacks. My builds would be VOP Soulknife 5/Ranger 2/Kensai 10/Tempest 3 or VOP Soulknife 5/Fighter 4/Pyrokineticist 8/Tempest 3 Both net you the +16 BAB for the 4 attacks and with the right two weapon fighting feats, you will have tons of damage and special weapon qualities.
dragonseth 07-19-05, 01:25 AM	Wait, splitting it lowers the enhancement by 1. So you can't do that. Or does Kensai supersede that. I'm getting confused by enhancement bonuses coming from two different classes and two different sources. How does the buffs to it from Soulknife interact with the ones from Kensai. Can a high level Soulknife buffs pass up the ones possible from Kensai and make it useless? Are they gonna stack? I have no idea how any of it will work. :confused: :confused:
rilem 07-19-05, 07:46 AM	Kensai's buffs supercede Soulknife's, so if you're doing a lot of Kensai levels keep your Soulknife levels low. Read Todd's Soulknife Compendium (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=372176&origin=), which contains a lot of good ideas and builds (I think Carnivore's is in there, towards the end, I think).
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-05, 09:08 AM	It's there. I'll repeat it here for everyone. when most people that i have seen try to optimize a VOP, they usually start by taking the Vow as early as they can. thus they recieve the added benifits of extra exalted Feats. but for a change.......... why not wait until later in life to renounce material possesions, after you see the futility of them(and a materialistic life style). the drawback is you need to spend the money in a way that will continue to give you benifits but that are not possesions. note:this is the revised version. Monk 2/ Paladin 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ SoulKnife 5/ Shou Disciple 5/ Iaijutsu Master 2/ Shiba Protector 1 Monk(variant) 1 . imp unarmed/ dodge/ Wpn Focus(unarmed)/ improved Initiative Monk(variant) 2 . mobiltiy Paladin 1......................Wpn Focus(Katana) Paladin 2 Swashbuckler 1 . .weapon finnesse Swashbuckler 2.............quickdraw Swashbuckler 3 SoulKnife 1 ... .wild talent/ Wpn Focus(mindblade) SoulKnife 2 .exotic weapon(Katana) SoulKnife 3 SoulKnife 4 SoulKnife 5........ .iron will Shou Disciple 1 Shou Disciple 2 ...Combat expertise Shou Disciple 3 ...Sacred vow Shou Disciple 4 ..Alertness Shou Disciple 5 iaijutsu master 1 .VOP /weapon finnesse(Katana)/exalted feat iaijutsu master 2 Shiba Protector 1...........exalted feat the same build will also work using this: Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Soldier of light 2/SoulKnife 5/ Shou Disciple 5/ Iaijutsu Master 2/ Shiba Protector 1 soldier of light is from Deities and Demigods, Full BAB, turn undead, and Cha to all Saves Monk(variant) 1 . imp unarmed/ dodge/ Wpn Focus(unarmed)/ improved Initiative Monk(variant) 2 . mobiltiy Swashbuckler 1 .weapon finnesse/Wpn Focus(Katana) Swashbuckler 2 Swashbuckler 3 SoulKnife 1 .wild talent/ Wpn Focus(mindblade)/quickdraw SoulKnife 2 SoulKnife 3 SoulKnife 4 .exotic weapon(Katana) SoulKnife 5 Sol 1 SoL 2 ........ .iron will Shou Disciple 1 Shou Disciple 2 ...Combat expertise Shou Disciple 3 ...Sacred vow Shou Disciple 4 ..Alertness Shou Disciple 5 iaijutsu master 1 .VOP /weapon finnesse(katana) iaijutsu master 2 Shiba Protector 1 you end up with : BAB +16 Int to AC Int to Damage Wis to AC Wis to Attack Wis to Damage Dex to AC Dex to Attack Cha to all saves Cha to Initiative 10 Str.....10 24 Dex....14 + 4 VOP+5 inherent +1 lvl 16 Con.....14+2 VOP 23 Int........14+6 VOP+3 inherent 30 Wis......14+4 inherent+4 lvls +8 VOP 18 Cha......14+4 inherent 424480gp 16 wishes (inherent ability scores) BAB +16....all weapons are considered magic and good full attack with flurry(16+10 wis+6 dex+5 VOP+1(wpn focus)-1 flurry) +37/+37/+32/+27/22 Damage: Unarmed= 2d6+6 Int+10 Wis +5 VOP enhancement = average 27 Soulknife= 1d10 +6 Int+10 Wis +5 VOP enhancement = average 26+1d6 Psychic 53 AC 10+10 wis +6 Int +7 dex+10 VOP +2 Natural +3 Deflection +3 Dodge +1 dodge+1 unnamed monk Benefits from a VOP: Energy resistance 15 True seeing constant effect Freedom of movement constant effect DR 10/evil and magic Mindshield constant effect Regenerate 20 hp/hour No need to Eat/ Drink/ Breath not too bad for a character with no weapons, no armor, no items at all :D Hope that helps.
dragonseth 07-19-05, 02:09 PM	I think I've pretty much settled on Soulknife 10/Kensai 10. Should I swap out Soulknife levels for other things though? I was thinking of taking Soulknife to 10 so I can get speed of thought, an extra d8 of psychic strike damage, bladewind, and GWF. Is it worth those abilities to take 5 extra levels of Soulknife? Pyro has to be chaotic anyway while Kensai is lawful. :weep:
carnivore 07-19-05, 05:30 PM	thanks rilem and Tempest Stormwind ... i have been quite limited on my time...so havent been around as much. I think I've pretty much settled on Soulknife 10/Kensai 10. Should I swap out Soulknife levels for other things though? I was thinking of taking Soulknife to 10 so I can get speed of thought, an extra d8 of psychic strike damage, bladewind, and GWF. Is it worth those abilities to take 5 extra levels of Soulknife? Pyro has to be chaotic anyway while Kensai is lawful. to answer some of your questions...: i would suggest as was mentioned...only go to Soulknife 5, it will get you all you need....the VOP will give you eventually +5 enhancement to all your attacks... Psychic strike damage is not as useful at higher levels when many things are immune to Mind-affecting effects, like psychic strike Bladewind is very nice but there are many other things that will help more. think in terms of what the VOP will give you and what it wont give you: it gives a lot to make you self sufficient....but not enough to be well protected the Saint template will work better, as it does not limit you from using magic to Augment your offence,defence and Movement(including flight or teleport(dimension door,etc)) Shou Disciple is an Excellent PrC that meshes well with both Soulknives and VOP or Saint......it gives Dodge bonus to AC, has a Flurry of blows that stacks with monk levels, will allow you to flurry with any Martial weapon(including the variations in form of your mindblade), and progresses unarmed damage up to 2d6(equal to a 12th level monk) Iaijutsu Master is also a great PrC for Soulknives.......it gives Int to AC, gives special Weapon Finnesse(Katana,normally not a Finnessable weapon),and Cha to initiative Monk is also nice for addition to the build.....Wis to AC, improved unarmed fighting,evasion......other goodies that work well with a VOP here are a few more threads for Soulknives...some with a VOP also Todds guide http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=372176 good discussion http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=441746 others http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=462892 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=426194 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=456151 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=450496 by the way i would not recomend Soulknife 10/ Kensai 10,...with a VOP it will be very weak at 20th lvl of play gotta go , hope it helps :D
dragonseth 07-20-05, 12:26 AM	Where can I find Shou Disciple and Iaijutsu Master? Featwise, I was planning on Sacred Vow and VoP at level 1.(Human) Weapon Finesse at 3, TWF at 6. It wouldn't do any good before 5 when I get shape mind blade. Aside from ITWF and GTWF, what feats should I grab? Also, what exalted feats should I get with VoP? Edit: Forgot about Combat Expertise for Kensai. I intended to grab Kensai ASAP. But that pushes back TWF or Weapon Finesse a few levels and both are pretty big. Any thoughts?
DwarvinJedi 07-20-05, 12:48 AM	Where can I find Shou Disciple and Iaijutsu Master? Featwise, I was planning on Sacred Vow and VoP at level 1.(Human) Weapon Finesse at 3, TWF at 6. It wouldn't do any good before 5 when I get shape mind blade. Aside from ITWF and GTWF, what feats should I grab? Also, what exalted feats should I get with VoP? Shou Is in Unapproachable East, and Iaijitsu is in Oriental Adventures
dragonseth 07-21-05, 02:15 PM	I picked up two levels of fighter to get good feats early on. :D Right now I've got: 1-5:Soulknife 6,7: Fighter 8-17:Kensai 18-20:Unknown I'm still debating on what to pick up for my last 3 levels. But my real question is: I was jotting down feats to grab and was wondering if I should grab Two-Weapon Defense and its chain. It looked like VoP gave huge boosts to AC, but I wasn't sure if it matched up to regular chars or not. Should I get TWD? If not I was thinking of Power Critical and Improved Critical.
Todd 07-21-05, 02:48 PM	Personaly I would go with fighting with the Mind Blade in bastard sword form. I would use the three unspent levels on Exotic Weapon Master from CW. First improved the damage from wielding a TH exotic weapon then make your bastard sword into a trip weapon. ;)
Khazra Reborn 07-21-05, 04:16 PM	Maybe monk3/fighter2/shou-disciple5/soulknife Prc10 soulknife PRc (darksun) (http://www.athas.org/releases/prc/Prestigeclasses3_5.pdf) Gives you ALL the best bits of soulknife (really, it does!) whilst keeping you up there in terms of power. Dual wield short sword soulknives of collision & flurry with them aswell, wooo, 9 attacks a round! Alternatly drop soulknife10 down to 9 & take EWM1 & use a bastard sword with 6 attacks, both pretty good.