Asking the CO boards posters a game balance question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Asking the CO boards posters a game balance question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RadicalTaoist
11-18-04, 11:57 PM You'll notice in my sig a link to the Tao Points System thread that I've made. Would anyone be so kind as to exploit the few techniques that I've created there so I can know how to avoid excessive abuse when I include them in my campaign? Note that the goal of the system is to give high-level fighter types a boost.
The Lone Drow
11-19-04, 12:16 AM Are these 'techniques' only available to fighter-types? Can casters, upon the same principles, make caster-type techniques permanent?

I for one feel that any fighter in their right mind would take permanent techniques. The whole meditation thing and the possibility of losing tao points due to not practising will make anyone take as many permanent techniques as they can, when they can... a build like fighter 20 (or any class with access to these techniques) will have approx. (using your the blade unnoticed technique) 7 extra techniques... that's a LOT. If you make all 'em techniques like this example you gave, fighters can become Kings of Smack(tm) big time.

Now if you allow casters access to techniques specific to their characteristics, then you'll just be making the party that much stronger, allowing everyone to spend these tao points for techniques (which are feats in disguise).

My opinion: don't allow them to become permanent.
PhoenixInferno
11-19-04, 01:25 AM Pretty cool idea. You should definitely get a hold of the Rokugan d20 books because they have techniques like these, although they are typically much less powerful. This will give you an idea of what a good power balance is, based on Rokugan's Void point system and your Tao point system.
RadicalTaoist
11-19-04, 11:41 AM Thanks guys =]

TheLoneDrow, techniques are supposed to be for melee-types only. Caster types are plenty powerful as it is, they don't need a boost.
Good point on the permanent techniques though, I should make it so you may lose the ability to access permanent techniques if you don't practice regularly. Do people really think they're too easy to abuse if made permanent?

PhoenixInferno, yeah I've looked at Rokugan and her system. I didn't like the idea of Void Points that were regained with rest. Plus the Blade Unnoticed is the first step to replacing the broken Iaijitsu rules.

Now, has anyone found a crazy overpowered combo in there or are my techniques still cool?
baoban sith
11-19-04, 01:48 PM Well, I only saw the three techniques, which any fighter would make permanent if they could. Can the two whirlwind techs. be combined, i.e. 2 fisted Pseudo Bag of Rats?

I don't see anything wrong with the mechanic, and it rewards fighters for persevering. Perhaps you could come up with a few more techs, so we could see what a 20th level fighter might look like?
PhoenixInferno
11-19-04, 02:16 PM ... yeah I've looked at Rokugan and her system. I didn't like the idea of Void Points that were regained with rest. Plus the Blade Unnoticed is the first step to replacing the broken Iaijitsu rules.

Perhaps I should be more clear - the Rokugan CS has techniques in its setting as well. They're activated by Void Points that are regained through rest. Your CS has techniques. They're actived by Tao points that are regained through intense training. This implies that the techniques your campaign setting has needs to be more powerful than the techniques in the Rokugan setting.

There ought to be a limit on the number of Permanent techniques as well. Otherwise, there's no reason that a warrior-type couldn't learn all the techniques as permanent ones, which I think you want to avoid.

You could also build opposing schools, where if you learn one technique, you could no longer learn certain others because of conflicting styles.
RadicalTaoist
11-19-04, 11:09 PM Oh, that's what you meant. Well, maybe I'll adapt some of Rokugan's technique feats. Give me a chance to nerf the abusable ones.
They are limited. The cheapest Techniques will permanently cost you 2 Tao Points to master, you could master at the most 7 in a pre-epic build. Secondly, you need feats (and BAB, among other things) to qualify, a non-fighter or psychic warrior (or rogue of some sort) will only be able to qualify for 3 Techniques if he's very lucky, more likely 2. If you guys think some of the mentioned Techniques should be stronger, please point it out and I may increase the Tao Point Cost. But I think I'll add a "You can master as many Techniques as you can qualify for as long as you still have at least 3 Tao Points remaining after it's mastery". That limits the fighter-types to 6 Techniques.
Finally, there's no Two-Fisted Bag 'o Rats trick as only the attack that kills initiates a Cleave.
Putting up Reap the Fields now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RadicalTaoist 11-18-04, 11:57 PM	You'll notice in my sig a link to the Tao Points System thread that I've made. Would anyone be so kind as to exploit the few techniques that I've created there so I can know how to avoid excessive abuse when I include them in my campaign? Note that the goal of the system is to give high-level fighter types a boost.
The Lone Drow 11-19-04, 12:16 AM	Are these 'techniques' only available to fighter-types? Can casters, upon the same principles, make caster-type techniques permanent? I for one feel that any fighter in their right mind would take permanent techniques. The whole meditation thing and the possibility of losing tao points due to not practising will make anyone take as many permanent techniques as they can, when they can... a build like fighter 20 (or any class with access to these techniques) will have approx. (using your the blade unnoticed technique) 7 extra techniques... that's a LOT. If you make all 'em techniques like this example you gave, fighters can become Kings of Smack(tm) big time. Now if you allow casters access to techniques specific to their characteristics, then you'll just be making the party that much stronger, allowing everyone to spend these tao points for techniques (which are feats in disguise). My opinion: don't allow them to become permanent.
PhoenixInferno 11-19-04, 01:25 AM	Pretty cool idea. You should definitely get a hold of the Rokugan d20 books because they have techniques like these, although they are typically much less powerful. This will give you an idea of what a good power balance is, based on Rokugan's Void point system and your Tao point system.
RadicalTaoist 11-19-04, 11:41 AM	Thanks guys =] TheLoneDrow, techniques are supposed to be for melee-types only. Caster types are plenty powerful as it is, they don't need a boost. Good point on the permanent techniques though, I should make it so you may lose the ability to access permanent techniques if you don't practice regularly. Do people really think they're too easy to abuse if made permanent? PhoenixInferno, yeah I've looked at Rokugan and her system. I didn't like the idea of Void Points that were regained with rest. Plus the Blade Unnoticed is the first step to replacing the broken Iaijitsu rules. Now, has anyone found a crazy overpowered combo in there or are my techniques still cool?
baoban sith 11-19-04, 01:48 PM	Well, I only saw the three techniques, which any fighter would make permanent if they could. Can the two whirlwind techs. be combined, i.e. 2 fisted Pseudo Bag of Rats? I don't see anything wrong with the mechanic, and it rewards fighters for persevering. Perhaps you could come up with a few more techs, so we could see what a 20th level fighter might look like?
PhoenixInferno 11-19-04, 02:16 PM	... yeah I've looked at Rokugan and her system. I didn't like the idea of Void Points that were regained with rest. Plus the Blade Unnoticed is the first step to replacing the broken Iaijitsu rules. Perhaps I should be more clear - the Rokugan CS has techniques in its setting as well. They're activated by Void Points that are regained through rest. Your CS has techniques. They're actived by Tao points that are regained through intense training. This implies that the techniques your campaign setting has needs to be more powerful than the techniques in the Rokugan setting. There ought to be a limit on the number of Permanent techniques as well. Otherwise, there's no reason that a warrior-type couldn't learn all the techniques as permanent ones, which I think you want to avoid. You could also build opposing schools, where if you learn one technique, you could no longer learn certain others because of conflicting styles.
RadicalTaoist 11-19-04, 11:09 PM	Oh, that's what you meant. Well, maybe I'll adapt some of Rokugan's technique feats. Give me a chance to nerf the abusable ones. They are limited. The cheapest Techniques will permanently cost you 2 Tao Points to master, you could master at the most 7 in a pre-epic build. Secondly, you need feats (and BAB, among other things) to qualify, a non-fighter or psychic warrior (or rogue of some sort) will only be able to qualify for 3 Techniques if he's very lucky, more likely 2. If you guys think some of the mentioned Techniques should be stronger, please point it out and I may increase the Tao Point Cost. But I think I'll add a "You can master as many Techniques as you can qualify for as long as you still have at least 3 Tao Points remaining after it's mastery". That limits the fighter-types to 6 Techniques. Finally, there's no Two-Fisted Bag 'o Rats trick as only the attack that kills initiates a Cleave. Putting up Reap the Fields now.