Post/Author/DateTime	Post
orionm42 01-11-07, 12:30 PM	I'll preface this by saying I've spent most of my DnD time DMing essentially core only games. However, I recently have a heightened interest in playing and one newer member of our group has volunteered to take over the DMing reins. His style is quite different from mine and he has indicated he is open to most anything as far as material is concerned. He also wants to run very high power campaigns. So, it appears as though I am about to embark on a new character optimization voyage, which I am greatly looking forward to. In preparation, I've spent some time looking through the threads included in the “Important Threads Index” at the top of this forum and I have come to the conclusion that I need a new job!! I simply don’t have enough disposable income to afford all the reference material that appears essential for optimizing characters. Also, my current sources are quite limited and were purchased primarily for DMing essentially core-only games (I currently have the core books, DMG2, PHB2, all MMs, the Fiend Folio, Libris Mortis, Deities and Demigods, and the Epic Level Handbook). As Shakespeare wrote, “Ay, there’s the rub.” On a limited budget of between $100 and $150 dollars, I need to build a beginner’s CO library starting essentially from scratch! So, my question is, what sources do you find yourself reaching for most often as you build your characters? What top 5 (or so) books give the biggest bang for the buck for classes, prestige classes, feats, etc.? Note that I am interested primarily in the spell casting classes (wizards, clerics, and druids). Also, are there any classes / prestige classes that you feel are a “must” to include in any arcane or divine build? If so, what is its source? Thanks in advance for your advice! :)
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-11-07, 12:38 PM	General = Unearthed Arcana. Class variants make qualifying for things much easier. Flaws are essential to many builds and a bonus to every build. Though these are available online (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm), so that saves a bit of money. Melee optimization - Tome of Battle, with honourable mentions for Complete Warrior and Player's Handbook 2 Divine Optimization = Cleric = Complete Divine (Divine Metamagic), followed by Spell Compendium. Druid = Monster Manual(s) (Wild Shape forms), also greatly helped by Spell Compendium. Arcane Optimization = Spell Compendium. But Complete Arcane & Complete Mage are both excellent. Also, Player's Guide to Faerun (for Incantrix). Skills Optimization = Races of Destiny (Able Learner feat, Chameleon). Overall, my top 2 choices would be Tome of Battle and Spell Compendium, depending on your character.
ksbsnowowl 01-11-07, 12:41 PM	Small note: even though it doesn't support local gaming shops (of which there are very few in my area), my suggestion for buying books on a budget is via Borders.com or Amazon.com (both accept Borders gift cards), as you will get an average of 33% off the cost of the book. When you can get 6 books instead of 4 for $120, it makes a huge difference. Unapproachable East is fantastic, with several great feats, templates, PrC's and spells. Tome of Battle will revolutionize the way you see melee combatants. Spell Compendium has a good array of spells.
jameswilliamogle 01-11-07, 01:33 PM	ToB and SpC would also be my top choices, but you really do need a lot of books if you want to really optimize the heck out of a character (particularly spellcasters). Rogue-types just gain tidbits of stuff here and there, but ToB and SpC add a lot to melee and spellcasting (SpC, in particular, saves you from having to dig through a ton of books for that key spell). What a lot of people do is look up stuff through Crystalkeep.com and then use the local Barnes & Noble as a library to make sure stuff works... I don't do this, though, but rather allow myself $35 a month to buy books, miniatures, and everything else gaming related, and allow myself to spend more than that if I didn't spend it all the previous month. I don't play WoW, go to the movies, or anything like that, so I figure the costs are reasonable entertainment expenses. Since I've been playing 3.5 for 3 years now, I've developed quite a collection (I don't have CScoundrel or Cityscape yet, nor some of the FR specific books like Dragons of Faerun, nor Xendrik books, but every other core book is in it). Speaking of books... somehow I ended up w/ 2 copies of both Races of Eberron and Heroes of Horror. If anyone is interested in them or wants to trade (maybe for something they got a spare copy of over XMas), PM me.
orionm42 01-11-07, 02:21 PM	Thanks for the replies so far. Sounds like the Spell Compendium and Tome of Battle are unanimous must haves. I checked on Amazon and they aren't too bad ($46 in total). I'll check out the Completes as well. As for Unapproachable East, is it real setting specific?
ksbsnowowl 01-11-07, 02:55 PM	As for Unapproachable East, is it real setting specific?Yes and no. Much of it is tied to that area of Faerun, but it's also generic enough that it can easily be tied to something else in your own campaign. UE has about the best combination of Fluff and Crunch of any book WotC has ever produced. It has great crunch in the form of good and effective PrC's, feats, and spells. It also has fantastic fluff that covers 5 different nations within the area, and each one is different from the others in culture, society, and government; if nothing else it is a great place to steal ideas from (I've done so for my own homebrew campaign). Within it you'll find the Tefflammar Shadowlord PrC, which is basically the Shadowdancer's big brother. A griphon-riding PrC, a diseased druid PrC, the Shou Disciple (Prior to Tome of Battle, the only real way to make an effective non-monk unarmed combatant), the Runescarred Berserker, the Nar Demonbinder, and many other fantastic classes that could be put anywhere with a little imagination. Add to that feats that allow summoners to buff up their summoned elementals, several barbarian "Berzerker Lodge" feats, and many great spells. Again, it's a fantastic book; my favorite D&D book by far.
jameswilliamogle 01-11-07, 02:59 PM	Again, it's a fantastic book; my favorite D&D book by far.Its a good one; I was shying away from it just b/c a lot of DMs won't adapt it to there own game.
Endarire 01-11-07, 03:07 PM	Overstock.com has cheap new D&D books, usually about $20 or $20.50 after shipping. As for ways to save money, if you only want a small section of a book, like 3 pages, you could borrow that book from a friend and photocopy it. Camera phones will work if you're patient. -EE
orionm42 01-11-07, 03:14 PM	How about the "Races" books (besides Races of Destiny mentioned by Dave). In particular, do you get much use from Races of Stone and Races of the Wild?
Sang-Drax 01-11-07, 03:30 PM	Yes and no. Much of it is tied to that area of Faerun, but it's also generic enough that it can easily be tied to something else in your own campaign. UE has about the best combination of Fluff and Crunch of any book WotC has ever produced. It has great crunch in the form of good and effective PrC's, feats, and spells. It also has fantastic fluff that covers 5 different nations within the area, and each one is different from the others in culture, society, and government; if nothing else it is a great place to steal ideas from (I've done so for my own homebrew campaign). Within it you'll find the Tefflammar Shadowlord PrC, which is basically the Shadowdancer's big brother. A griphon-riding PrC, a diseased druid PrC, the Shou Disciple (Prior to Tome of Battle, the only real way to make an effective non-monk unarmed combatant), the Runescarred Berserker, the Nar Demonbinder, and many other fantastic classes that could be put anywhere with a little imagination. Add to that feats that allow summoners to buff up their summoned elementals, several barbarian "Berzerker Lodge" feats, and many great spells. Again, it's a fantastic book; my favorite D&D book by far. I agree. UE rulez. If I were to buy ONE book, however, that would be Spell Compendium. It's usable by mostly any character. Tome of Battle is nice, but it's a different mechanic, and I think it's not really a balanced book in itself. I mean, you're mostly stuck with characters that are either too powerful or craptastic. But maybe that's just for the campaign I'm currently playing.
orionm42 01-11-07, 03:41 PM	Overstock.com has cheap new D&D books, usually about $20 or $20.50 after shipping. -EE Hadn't thought of that. After comparing Overstock and Amazon, Overstock is about $1 cheaper per book. Edit: Although, it appears as though Overstock charges $1.40 per book, while most of the DnD titles on Amazon qualify for free shipping. So Amazon is slightly cheaper.
waywreth 01-11-07, 03:48 PM	Throw in some more support for ToB and Spell Compendium. I'm a big fan of both of those books. I usually have PHB2, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine as the ones I also carry with me to gaming sessions (barring special requests).
Zappa 01-12-07, 02:11 PM	In our group, everyone throws $1 into the "kitty" each time we play (weekly). We use this money to buy books and gaming materials. With 8 guys in the group, we can buy about one book every month. Something to think about...