Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hicamajig 12-23-05, 02:46 PM	I'm looking for a assassin type build because whenever i make one it dies. I was thinking of having assassin and ghost faced killer in it somewhere because i basically want to sneak around undetected and eliminate my foes. I am in forgotten realms and am allowed most 3.5e books(no 3rd party ones). Thanks in advance.
Xeraph 12-23-05, 02:52 PM	Ninja 10/Ghostfaced Killer 10. Cheers.
hicamajig 12-23-05, 03:02 PM	Shouldn't i use assassin for death attack.
Xeraph 12-23-05, 03:07 PM	Oh you want death attack? Rogue 5/ Assassin 9/ Teflammar Shadowlord 6 or Rogue 5/ Assassin 7/ Fatespinner 5/ Telflammar Shadowlord 3 The first build is vanilla. The second uses Fatespinner cheese to make insane DA DCs few times perday. Cheers.
hicamajig 12-23-05, 03:14 PM	is there any way to fuse the two so that you can use ghost faced killer stuff and assassin stuff?
Shirosai 12-23-05, 03:17 PM	Vanilla cheese... I wonder how that would taste? :gah: Anyway, this build would probably be good for stealth-ness; Rogue 4/Ranger 3(TWF, of course)/Shadow Dancer 7/Horizon Walker 6. No assassin in there, but assassin is really just a title of sorts. You could easily mimic the assassin by roleplay alone, unless you really want that death attack. Edit: I guess you could also go Rogue 4/Ranger 2/Assassin 1/Shadow Dancer 7/Horizon Walker 6, that way you get death attack and all those assassin 1 things. Edit2: Or maybe something like... Rogue3/Ranger2/Assassin7/Ghost-Faced Killer8.(I don't know what GFK8 would do for you, I'm looking for my CAd right now. :D )
hicamajig 12-23-05, 03:59 PM	ok ill use the last one.
SoulGamit 12-23-05, 05:37 PM	Murrowlurk Monstrous Humanoid 3 / Fighter 2 / Assassin 10 / Cleric 1 / Black Flame Zealot 4 Ask if you can increase the monstrous humanoid HD instead of taking fighter. You'll have a death attack DC of 27+int+cha. If you can get more HD then you can a death attack DC of up to 30+int+cha. Assuming a decent int and cha of 20 after items (not hard) you'll be seeing DCs near the 40s. Now all you need is a way to death attack things that are immune to death effects...
hicamajig 12-23-05, 06:51 PM	where would one find the Murrowlurk Monstrous Humanoid and the black flame zelot
SoulGamit 12-23-05, 07:10 PM	Murrowlurk is a race in sandstorm, it has 1 or 2 LA (I forget which) and 3 Monstrous Humanoid HD. Black Flame Zealot is a class from Complete Divine. Actually, I forgot the LA and assumed you could use LA Buyoff. If you can't, you might want to skip the black flame zealot entirely. Just ask if you can more monstrous humanoid HD, which would result in a better death attack DC.
hicamajig 12-23-05, 07:22 PM	I don't really want that high of buyoff.
aod318 12-23-05, 07:30 PM	Keep it simple; Halfling Rogue 10 / Assassin 10 with Racial Rogue sub levels from RotW. Most seem to overlook the spell list of the Assassin. You've got the perfect sniper killer and a great list of spells.
hicamajig 12-23-05, 08:10 PM	If i were to use this (Rogue3/Ranger2/Assassin7/Ghost-Faced Killer8) build or something similar, what weapon(s) would you guys recommend?
SoulGamit 12-23-05, 08:16 PM	You do realize that ghost face killer is useless against things immune to fear effects, which is basically everyone? Anyways, just use a falcheon or a greatsword, which one you use is up to you. Alternatively, you could use a spiked chain and all of it's riggedness.
hicamajig 12-23-05, 08:24 PM	you sure almost everone is? Well what would you suggest for classes on a lesser tiefling mineral warrior that i want to have assassiny goodness on?
SoulGamit 12-23-05, 08:53 PM	Sorry, I'll rephrase. Getting fear immunity is VERY easy. All undead, constructs, and fey are immune to it, for instence. Paladins are immune to fear effects. Getting a high will save is even easier. Well what would you suggest for classes on a lesser tiefling mineral warrior that i want to have assassiny goodness on? Question, what do you mean by assassin? Death attack, sniping, one hit kill type deal, or the stealthy killer?
hicamajig 12-23-05, 08:57 PM	Death attack, one hit kill type deal, and the stealthy killer is what i'm lookin for i was also hoping to go ethereal. I know i may be asking for too much in a character but that is whaat i'm lookin for.
Xeraph 12-24-05, 07:31 AM	Ok ive looked it through, GFK doesn't mix with death attack, it just doesn't work. If you would take the sacrifice to bab, go Rogue 3/ Monk 2/ Assassin 5/ Ninja of the Crescent Moon 10 instead... Or Rog3/Mnk2/Ass10/NotCM 5 ... both better IMO. Heres a weird idea though. Human Psion Nomad 10/ Psychic Assassin 10 With able learner this should be possible. Manifester level 15th 8th level powers (Ethreal Jaunt Psionic) Death Attack 20+int +4d6 Sneak Attack Bab +12/+7/+2 It is possible to sqeeze some levels of Shadowmind in there. Cheers.
brdxtrm 12-24-05, 02:01 PM	How about 3 Swashbuckler/3 Rogue/8 Assassin/6 Telflammar Shadowlord. If Rokugan Ninja (http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf) is allowed, you might consider swapping the 3 rogue levels for the 3 Rokugan Ninja levels. With this build you can completely focus on the Death Attack(DC: high 30s) and max out your intelligence. With the 3 swashbuckler levels you get int to damage and free weapon finesse.
hicamajig 12-24-05, 02:39 PM	Where would i find Ninja of the Crescent Moon 10 and Psion Nomad and why doesn't ghost-faced killer work with assassin?
Zedraikis 12-24-05, 02:46 PM	Ghost Faced Killer just isn't appealing in my opinion. For Forgotten Realms flavor and overall goodness, I reccommend this build. Human Rogue 4/Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Assassin 8/Shadow Thief of Amn 4. This nets you: ~+16 BAB. ~A ton of Rogue and stealth skills. ~4th level Assassin spells. ~Death Attack of 18+INT. ~Good Fort (10) save, fantastic Reflex (17) save, poor Will (4) save. ~8d6 Sneak Attack. ~Evasion. ~Improved Uncanny Dodge. ~Hide In Plain Sight. ~Favored Enemy (Human, being an assassin and all?). ~2 Bonus Feats from Fighter. ~2 Bonus Feats from SToA. ~Other class goodies. Want to go ethereal? Get Ethereal Armor in the DMG. If you like the idea of being a 'killer ghost' rogue, just say your character has a reputation of being so good he's virtually a 'ghost.' Unseen, unheard, and deadly, etc. This fits well with the fact that SToA gives you a Reputation class ability. If you want a higher DC for Death Attack, get an Assassin's Dagger. Don't want it to be a dagger? I wouldn't either. Just say it's another weapon and add the small amount of appropriate gold to the cost. Shouldn't be hard to convince your DM to allow it. Use Death Attack against foes that obviously would have poor Fort saves, such as mages and other rogue-ish characters. Shadow Thief of Amn is in the Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms. It's also under Guild Thief in the original Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. You can also switch Ranger 2 with another Fighter 2 for another bonus feat, but your saves and skills go down some. The main goal here was to get as much Rogue skills, BAB, and Sneak Attack damage as possible at level 20. You get a ton of other class goodies in this build, which is a bonus. Just a suggestion.
hicamajig 12-24-05, 03:06 PM	Ok sounds good and what weapon(s) would you suggest for this character and how would i explain being a shadow thief of amn?
SoulGamit 12-24-05, 03:20 PM	For a roguish chara? Wield the one-handed mace in one hand and the light mace in the other. Sorry, I forget their exact names, but they are some of the best weapons to duel wield unless you want to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency or you have class features that dictate that you should use another weapon.
hicamajig 12-24-05, 03:24 PM	I don't really like maces, I am one of the typical slashing weapon users.
Xeraph 12-24-05, 07:03 PM	Where would i find Ninja of the Crescent Moon 10 and Psion Nomad and why doesn't ghost-faced killer work with assassin? NotCM is in Sword and Fist, note it has been erretaed to have rogue base attack and only goor reflex. Also it has been uodated to the Ninja class from Complete Adventurer which I totally ignore. :D Psion Nomad is like a specialized wizard psion. It is found in Expanded Psionics Handbook or here: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPsion.html GFK doesnt work with assassin because it doesnt advance death attack. Ghostfaced Killer has Power Attack as requirement, which doesnt really support TWF, so SS (or SA) isnt so important. GFK does nothing but scare your opponents, everything else it does can be done better with other classes. Take Dreadful Wrath from Players Guide to Faerun and be more scary with just a single feat!??! Sudden Strike? Who needs it when you can have Sneak Attack thats so much better. GFK = Crap IMO. I like the flavor though. But the flavor can also be found in other classes. Cheers. :D
hicamajig 12-24-05, 10:16 PM	Rog3/Mnk2/Ass5/NotCM 10 looks good I have a few questions though, they are: What weapon(s) should be used (preferably slashing)? Should he be a dual or single weilder? What skills and feats should be taken? What equipment should be bought (I was thinking of armor with ethrealness)? What strategies should be used in battle? What stats should he have (28 pt buy)? That is all that i can think of right now. Thanks to all who have contributed to my character, it is greatly appreciated.
hicamajig 12-24-05, 11:49 PM	Well no replies at the moment but i am going to bed now and willl check in the morning. One last thing must be said before then though MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT
Xeraph 12-25-05, 01:55 AM	;) ...And a merry goodmorning!!! *checks back later when hes sober*
primetimekiller 12-25-05, 08:20 AM	my try on an assassin: http://www.rubberduck.zapto.org/rogue.html you get sneak of 6d6+20 have a bab of 16 can auto critic with you bows 2 times per round^^(dead eye) death attack of 23+int hide in plain sight always possible all the shadowstuff with my favorite Shadow discorporation which makes you really hard to kill i know the assassin would get hide in plain sight on level 8 but that would be at 20th level which is far too late please make comments or suggest some feats since i am still working on it
Xeraph 12-25-05, 11:23 AM	Thats nice! Only thing i can put my hand on is its feats. There are not many, and the few that are doesnt synergize very well with bows, except for craven and dead eye ofcourse. Spells could ofset this though, its nice.
hicamajig 12-25-05, 11:43 AM	Well I'm back now and still waiting for answers to my questions.
primetimekiller 12-25-05, 12:22 PM	well i think that i posted a quite nice build... and my builds are known and feared for their high survivability... as stated once you get to Shadow discorporation your fine since each time you woulod be killed you just vanish into the shadows and reform at the next sunset until then you just do not exist you cant do anything and nothing can be done to you the basic and pretty simple trick is when you have only a few hp left lets say 5 and the next blow would definitvely kill(and the reflex save would be hard to make) you just stab yourself... then when reduced below 0hp make your reflex save agains well something between 5-15 which should be easy with a base ref save of 15 as for the ghost faced killer yes its quite nice and has a lot of flavor but its abilites are not so good in comparison to other thing...
hicamajig 12-25-05, 12:27 PM	what about Rog 3/Mnk 2/Ass 5/TephShdwLord 5/NotCM 5 that seems like it would work well.
Xeraph 12-25-05, 01:57 PM	Fast Sneak or Shadow Discorporation... Its hard to say what is best TSL 6 or NotCM 5... Other than that, it looks very nice. Good gaming.
hicamajig 12-25-05, 02:44 PM	k now i just need my yesterdays questions answered.
Xeraph 12-25-05, 03:10 PM	What weapon(s) should be used (preferably slashing)? Should he be a dual or single weilder? What skills and feats should be taken? What equipment should be bought (I was thinking of armor with ethrealness)? What strategies should be used in battle? What stats should he have (28 pt buy)? 1: If you take the Kali, Arnis, Escrima variant Weapon School for you monk then I would go for Shortsword or Dagger since it lets you flurry with them. Also, shortswords and daggers are a very commen weapons to find when you roll treasure. Or you could spend a feat on Ascetic Rogue and focus on your unarmed strikes. 2: If you have feats to spare, make him a TWF. 3: Look at requirements first, then go for TWF, ITWF, Craven, Arterial Strike, Quicken Spell Like Ability (Shadow Jump), Quicken SLA (Shadow Walk), Ability Focus (Death Attack), Weapon Finesse, Razing Strike, Staggering Strike... Are all good choices. Max Search, Hide, Move Silently, Spot and Listen. And for the love of god Use Magic Device!!! :D 4: Sounds like a good choice for an armor. I like Silent, Shadow and Soul Fire armor enhancement (Boed), Assassins Blade, Shadowweave clothes. Also look in Complete Adventuer and Arms and Equipment, there are tons of gadgets, ointments and powders that boost your rogue abilities. 5: At low levels you flank so you can sneak, you are the trap scout and have low hp, so stay in the back. Mid levels is where you have spells and death attack, you must therefor start combat so you can get your death attack "in" to start with easier. Start using scrolls so you can strike undead, golems, plants and such. (cant remember the spells names though). High levels is where you Shadowjump in, attack, and shadowjump out. Using Shadow pounce you can deal tons of damage and your opponent doesnt stand a chance. Actually with a quickened Shadow Walk you can shadow jump in, attack, kill opponent, then shadow walk the hell out of the place. PErfect assassin. 6: High dex and int, then go for con and wis. Str and cha doesnt matter keep enough to talk and to carry equipment.
Tiefling_Warlock 12-25-05, 03:15 PM	I guess you might want to add 5 levels of Dark Hunter (pg. 21 of CW) it has death attack and stones hue for your ghostyness.
hicamajig 12-25-05, 03:15 PM	Ok thanks you guys have helped out alot.
Slyver 12-25-05, 03:29 PM	Here is a slight variation, but just a couple changes add a lot of power. Stat Priority Int, Dex, Con, wis, str/cha Race: Human (shadow walker template) Monk is cobra strike variant 1 Rogue Blind fight, craven 2 Monk dodge 3 Monk mobility, Carmendine monk 4 Swashbuckler Weapon finesse 5 Swashbuckler 6 Swashbuckler Spring attack 7 Assassin 8 Teflemmar Shadowlord 9 Teflemmar Shadowlord Ability Focus (death attack) 10 Teflemmar Shadowlord 11 Teflemmar Shadowlord 12 Teflemmar Shadowlord Elusive Target 13 Teflemmar Shadowlord 14 Assassin 15 Assassin Stunning fist 16 Assassin 17 Assassin 18 Assassin Quicken spelllike ability (Shadow Jump) 19 Assassin 20 Assassin He gets, int to AC, damage, stunning fist DC, death attack DC, bonus spells, skills, spell save DC. He also gets flurry of blows which decreases the need to get the 2wf chain, just use a Sai or kama (or fist or dagger or shortsword with alternate weapon list). Slyver
primetimekiller 12-25-05, 04:05 PM	Max Search, Hide, Move Silently, Spot and Listen. And for the love of god Use Magic Device!!! this is great i just laughed my ass off!
hicamajig 12-25-05, 04:09 PM	but if i used that build i wouldn't get the ninja of the cresent moon abilities.
Slyver 12-26-05, 06:00 PM	but if i used that build i wouldn't get the ninja of the cresent moon abilities. Assuming you are responding to me, there is nothing in the erratumed NotCM that the build I posted can't do better, except the silencing attack at 4th, which is nice, but hardly that important. To get that you would have to give up on your death attack (which with high DC is substantially better) as well as many other very useful abilities and/or spells. If you insist however, you can get a better silencing attack ability by playing a whisper gnome (an awesome assassin race btw) and picking up the feat silencing strike. You can only use it 1/day (although it lasts much longer than the NotCM ability) but how many mages does one really need to assassinate on any average day that will also succeed against your rather high death attack DC. If you need more silencing strikes pick up the extra silence feat as well. Some things you might want to look at if you haven't are, the shadow-walker template (as per my build) and all the fantastic uber ninja spell-like abilities and all the assassin spells in all the various books, they shouldn't be discounted. Teflemmar shadowlord/assassin/shadow-walker template work amazing together. Whatever variation of race/base classes you pick to go with it, i don't think any other build can compare with that. Also, do not discount having just one stat be so important. Not all stats can be raised to obscene levels, but one certainly can. Having that one stat add to so many things makes for a very powerful character. Slyver
hicamajig 12-26-05, 06:28 PM	what if your dm does not know that it has erattas :D and what should i have for stats using 28pt buy system
Xeraph 12-26-05, 06:40 PM	Then you would be cheating, but what the hell. I totally forgot, you should defintaly use Kung-fu Genius in combinations iwht your monk and NotCM levels, this way you will reduce your multiple attribute dependency. I cant remember the buy chart in my head. But hows this:? Str 10 (Just enough to carry some daggers and a bag of holding) Dex 15 (Dex 20 at 20th level, im starting this score lower than int to start with, since you need the extra skill points int gives you from level one and so on) Con 12 (mmm hit points, if you can buy this higher, go for it) Int 16 (Int should be max to start with, it gives you AC later on, death attack, skill points and spells) Wis 10 (who cares, especially with both monk levels and NotCM saves) Cha 8 (Kuji-kiri? To hell with it, UMD will be high enough to buy scrolls)
hicamajig 12-26-05, 07:06 PM	did you consider the +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma for lesser tiefling when you posted those? If not what should they be then?
Xeraph 12-26-05, 07:17 PM	I thought you went human. Lesser Tieflings not only has great score synergy with your idea, it has great flavor aswell.
hicamajig 12-26-05, 07:20 PM	ok thanks.
hicamajig 12-26-05, 07:48 PM	one more thing, what is kung fu genius and where can it be found?
SoulGamit 12-26-05, 10:40 PM	Dragon Mag, I forget which #. Carmadine Monk from Champions of Valor is better anyways, although you might run into flavor problems.
hicamajig 12-27-05, 12:10 AM	can someone post kung fu genius for me? I don't have access to any dragon mags.
Xeraph 12-27-05, 08:03 AM	Draognmag 319 Lets you use int for all wis based abilities of the monk. Req 13 int, must be taken before or at first level monk.
hicamajig 12-27-05, 12:40 PM	and its a feat right?
Xeraph 12-27-05, 12:53 PM	Yes sir. ;)
likerpgs 12-27-05, 01:11 PM	I'm looking for a assassin type build because whenever i make one it dies. Assassins are cool to play but they are also the character types that you need to use your noggin a lot... If you are playing stealthy types that keeps dying, might want to check out your style of playing these types in addition to getting cool builds to try out. Some of the coolest builds have a low WIL save that magi loves to take advantage, whats a hide in shadows if the mage throws several daylight spells into your area, etc... My fave build has been lucky to survive so far...several times going into single digits...a lot of noggin and luck on my part. Human Rogue 3 / Fighter 1 / Ranger 2 / Dervish 9 / Shadow-Walker / Telflammar Shadowlord 4
aod318 12-27-05, 02:48 PM	Now all you need is a way to death attack things that are immune to death effects... Destructive Attack [epic] You can make death attacks against plant, undead and construct targets. if talking epic, Lingering Death [epic] is also impressive. On the round after the failed death attack, the target must make a second Fort save.
hicamajig 12-27-05, 04:39 PM	ok thanks
borg2 12-28-05, 12:53 AM	Assasin is a job description (or playing style)... Bob hands over 1000gp, you summon a bugbear into his business partners bedroom - mission accomplished! ;) I've notice in real play, death attacks tend to be very weak. Hanging around a high level character for three rounds tends to be pretty unhealthy/risky to start with, and there are quite a few magical protections that would be routinely used by someone who had cause to fear assasination... so, sure, it's easy to bump off someone with a half share in a bakery, but killing the BBEG (or BBGG I guess) will be much harder. That paladin will know you're up to no good just by looking at you! By the time you get to round three, he'll have smited you into submission. A more effective mechansism for killing is optomising for save or die spells/spell like abilities, or something like freeze the life blood (followed by kick the crap out of), or concentrating on huge sneak attack or ability damage. There are magical items that will prevent ressurection (what is the official assasin guild policy on refunds for those who don't stay dead?), and a self locking garrot is very effective too! ;) Human CV Ninja 2 with Quickdraw, Cosmopolitan(Iaido Focus) and a +10 to Iaido focus skill item would be a terribly potent assasin at CR2 - and a summoner wouldn't be far behind.
planesinger 12-28-05, 02:24 PM	if high level the Assassin: 3roger/2fighter/3assassin/2duelist, (or level 15-20 3roger/2fighter/3-8assassin/7duelist) race: human lv1 roger: Two-Weapon Fighting,Dodge; lv2 fighter: Weapon Finesse; lv3 fighter: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint; lv4 roger: lv5 roger: lv6 assassin: Mobility; lv7 assassin: lv8 assassin: lv9 duelist: Two-Weapon Defense; lv10 duelist: use the move action to feint your opponent, the main hand use the fight defensively when attack (-4 attack +3 dodge AC), the off hand only defend (no attack, +2 shield AC). and don't forget the magic wand, when lv8 you have +14 (+3 Circlet of persuasion) UMD skill, and "Reduce Person" potion. if low level the Shadowdancer: 3roger/2monk/4assassin/1shadowdancer race: halfling lv1 roger: Dodge; lv2 monk: Stunning Fist*; lv3 roger: Weapon Finesse; lv4 roger: ; lv5 monk: Combat Reflexes*; lv6 assassin: Mobility; lv7 assassin: lv8 shadowdancer:Hide in plain sight*; lv9 assassin: Two-Weapon Fighting; lv10 assassin: use the unarmed attack (or ki weapon when high level) and stunning fist to SA, when be a shadowdancer, use the HIDE and SHOT to SA (within 30 ft.), and don't forget the "Reduce Person" potion or wand, make you +2 AB and +2AC. is high save but low BAB...