Assassin class optimization [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assassin class optimization [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Valeryn
07-18-06, 06:44 PM I am looking to build a rogue/fighter for an upcoming campaign and I was looking at the Assassin prestige class as an option. Anyone have any advice for a solid build with this? Primarily I would like the character to be able to hold his own in almost any situation, however I want him to be the best in the group at striking unexpectedly and killing quickly.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
rilem
07-18-06, 08:23 PM Books allowed? Stats? What level?

A common assassin build is Rogue2/Swash3/Asn9/TelflammarShadowlord6, maybe with the ShadowWalker Template. It gets good Int synergy (Damage/spells/death attack) and a full-attack on a dimension door. You could replace the rogue with Monk (and Carmendine Monk feat) for Int to AC.

You'll be pretty flexible, but Death Attack isn't really that useful against most monster-opponents. Quick-kills are really the province of save-or-die spellcasters and Power-Attack masters.
moomooacow
07-19-06, 12:32 AM Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 8

or

Monk 6 / Fighter 1 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 7

or

Monk 3 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 7

or

Monk 3 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 7

The early Monk feats and saves are invaluable, especially the Improved Unarmed Attack and Flurry. No matter what your situation you'll be considered armed. Also, you get Evasion and some very good saves with all the Multiclassing.

I'm not sure if this will work, but take the Multiattack feat with your Unarmed Strike (considered a Natural Weapon) which allows you to make an additional attack with -2 to your BAB. What does this mean? Well, you can use a Sai in both hands, adding +1 1/2 Strength. In addition to that, you can use your Unarmed Strike as an additional attack with your Flurry of Blows, that bonus stacked with your Sneak Attack can put out some devastating damage extremely quickly with little feat investment.

Two Ranger levels get you the Two-Weapon Fighting ability or Rapid Shot, but also gives you some very nice saves, Favored Enemy (Human), and since you're going to be Evil you can pick your own race as a Favored Enemy, and Track, a very important skill for an Assassin. The 2 Ranger levels I'd just skill dump into Survival, Hide, and Move Silently. For the Rogue level I'd try to focus more on the Rogue-ish stuff besides Hide and Move Silently, since you'll have plenty of time to raise it with Dread Commando and Assassin. Also, if you take a level of Ranger you're able to use Wands which cast Ranger spells without having to make a skill check - like Eagle's Splendor and the like, making you even more versatile.

You'll be able to literally hold your own in any situation if properly equipped. You can stay back and throw Shurikens with Flurry of Blow and/or Rapid Shot, dealing some very nice Sneak Attack damage, or close in, flanking, and get in even more damage. If

What you plan on being with these possible builds will really be dependent on your Feat and Stat allocation. On physical stats focus either on Strength or Dexterity, and forget about Constitution because it's just not really worth it for this build. If you're going for the greatest versatility, though, I'd suggest focusing entirely on Dexterity. Dexterity is the basis of your Ranged attacks and improves, although almost non-existantly at higher levels, your AC. It also gives you greater skill synergy.

Assassin: DMG
Dread Commando: Heroes of Battle
Valeryn
07-19-06, 03:44 PM Thanks for the input! It looks like this will be a Forgotten Realms campaign and we will all be starting out at level 1. As far as books are concerned, this DM has quite a library and is very fond of using all his resources to create characters when he plays. Which books should I try to collect in order to get the most out of this character?
WorshipJackSparrow
07-22-06, 04:48 PM At 1st level, take Rogue and Human. Spend you're 2 1st level feats on skill focus Hide and skill focus Move Silently then take disguise 4+, Hide/movesilently 6+. If you're EEeevil and claim to have killed someone already, you can apply the +2 ranks of both skill focuses. My fellow player, who wanted an assassin, started fourth level and has !started! as an assassin. Our GM is in agreement with this as lawabiding.
Reiner
07-22-06, 04:56 PM That doesn't work at all, since the requirements for Assassin are 8 ranks in hide/move, not that you have a total modifer of +8. Skill focues does not help you meet prereqs of a class.
Hanniball
07-22-06, 05:21 PM Rog 3/Ftr 2/Invisible Blade 5/Assassin 9/XXX 1

This build provides a higher BAB than many rogue builds. Combined with Two-Weapon fighting, it's improved variations and +10D6 Sneak Attack makes flanking devestating.

You'll be pretty flexible, but Death Attack isn't really that useful against most monster-opponents. Quick-kills are really the province of save-or-die spellcasters and Power-Attack masters.

Although I agree that casters and chargers are the quick-kill masters, I cannot see how a Death Attack Dc of 30+ is anything to sneeze at.

Consider the build you posted: Rog2/Swash 3/Assassin 9/TSL 6 armed with two Assassin daggers (DMG), the Feat Ability Focus: Death Attack, and a 30 Int (15 base, +4 lvls, +6 Item, +5 book)

That's 10 (base) + 15 (lvls) + 2 (daggers) +2 (ability focus) + 10 (Int)= DC 39

That a lot higher than the Dcs for most Save-or-Die spells in 3.5, but requires three rounds of prep as opposed to a Swift Action.

Either way... just my 2 cp
rilem
07-22-06, 05:32 PM That's 10 (base) + 15 (lvls) + 2 (daggers) +2 (ability focus) + 10 (Int)= DC 39

That a lot higher than the Dcs for most Save-or-Die spells in 3.5, but requires three rounds of prep as opposed to a Swift Action.

Either way... just my 2 cp

Oh, it's fine, no question. for doing what an Assassin would normally be doing — killing bureaucrats, politicians, merchants and so on. But monsters of equal CR, at that level, are going to have Fort. saves of +23 to +28 — at least in Core, I just ran a quick check.

Mages are still valid targets, but since your Death Attack is utterly thwarted by concealment, etc., they'll have their own methods for avoiding it.

And in the three rounds you've spent preparing your attack, your allies have been doing real damage.

Death Attack has its uses, certainly, and if you set it up properly it can make a nice opening move. It's just limited in a standard campaign, I think.
Hanniball
07-22-06, 06:25 PM Death Attack has its uses, certainly, and if you set it up properly it can make a nice opening move. It's just limited in a standard campaign, I think.

And it's the rogues job to ensure that the campaign is anything but standard.

Seriously though, I agree. It's far too often you have the party of PCs simply charge into battle screaming off spells and flailing around weapons taking no heed to battlefield control or positioning.

I have found myself crouched behind a door with my x-ray goggles waiting the 3 rounds, only to have the Mage Finger of Death my target. So, it does take a certain amount of preparation, but that shouldn't be too difficult to manage with a bit a patience and communication between party members.

But monsters of equal CR, at that level, are going to have Fort. saves of +23 to +28 — at least in Core, I just ran a quick check.

When a Wizard comes across a BBEG with a high Fort. save he doesn't (or at least shouldn't) try to Disintegrate him, he switches over to his Hold Monster or Fireball. The assassin has a few tricks up his sleeve as well, just check out the spell list. And remember the Extra Spell feat as well as Practiced Spellcaster for some neccessary caster level boosting.

Either way...just my 2 cp

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valeryn 07-18-06, 06:44 PM	I am looking to build a rogue/fighter for an upcoming campaign and I was looking at the Assassin prestige class as an option. Anyone have any advice for a solid build with this? Primarily I would like the character to be able to hold his own in almost any situation, however I want him to be the best in the group at striking unexpectedly and killing quickly. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
rilem 07-18-06, 08:23 PM	Books allowed? Stats? What level? A common assassin build is Rogue2/Swash3/Asn9/TelflammarShadowlord6, maybe with the ShadowWalker Template. It gets good Int synergy (Damage/spells/death attack) and a full-attack on a dimension door. You could replace the rogue with Monk (and Carmendine Monk feat) for Int to AC. You'll be pretty flexible, but Death Attack isn't really that useful against most monster-opponents. Quick-kills are really the province of save-or-die spellcasters and Power-Attack masters.
moomooacow 07-19-06, 12:32 AM	Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 8 or Monk 6 / Fighter 1 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 7 or Monk 3 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 7 or Monk 3 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Assassin 7 The early Monk feats and saves are invaluable, especially the Improved Unarmed Attack and Flurry. No matter what your situation you'll be considered armed. Also, you get Evasion and some very good saves with all the Multiclassing. I'm not sure if this will work, but take the Multiattack feat with your Unarmed Strike (considered a Natural Weapon) which allows you to make an additional attack with -2 to your BAB. What does this mean? Well, you can use a Sai in both hands, adding +1 1/2 Strength. In addition to that, you can use your Unarmed Strike as an additional attack with your Flurry of Blows, that bonus stacked with your Sneak Attack can put out some devastating damage extremely quickly with little feat investment. Two Ranger levels get you the Two-Weapon Fighting ability or Rapid Shot, but also gives you some very nice saves, Favored Enemy (Human), and since you're going to be Evil you can pick your own race as a Favored Enemy, and Track, a very important skill for an Assassin. The 2 Ranger levels I'd just skill dump into Survival, Hide, and Move Silently. For the Rogue level I'd try to focus more on the Rogue-ish stuff besides Hide and Move Silently, since you'll have plenty of time to raise it with Dread Commando and Assassin. Also, if you take a level of Ranger you're able to use Wands which cast Ranger spells without having to make a skill check - like Eagle's Splendor and the like, making you even more versatile. You'll be able to literally hold your own in any situation if properly equipped. You can stay back and throw Shurikens with Flurry of Blow and/or Rapid Shot, dealing some very nice Sneak Attack damage, or close in, flanking, and get in even more damage. If What you plan on being with these possible builds will really be dependent on your Feat and Stat allocation. On physical stats focus either on Strength or Dexterity, and forget about Constitution because it's just not really worth it for this build. If you're going for the greatest versatility, though, I'd suggest focusing entirely on Dexterity. Dexterity is the basis of your Ranged attacks and improves, although almost non-existantly at higher levels, your AC. It also gives you greater skill synergy. Assassin: DMG Dread Commando: Heroes of Battle
Valeryn 07-19-06, 03:44 PM	Thanks for the input! It looks like this will be a Forgotten Realms campaign and we will all be starting out at level 1. As far as books are concerned, this DM has quite a library and is very fond of using all his resources to create characters when he plays. Which books should I try to collect in order to get the most out of this character?
WorshipJackSparrow 07-22-06, 04:48 PM	At 1st level, take Rogue and Human. Spend you're 2 1st level feats on skill focus Hide and skill focus Move Silently then take disguise 4+, Hide/movesilently 6+. If you're EEeevil and claim to have killed someone already, you can apply the +2 ranks of both skill focuses. My fellow player, who wanted an assassin, started fourth level and has !started! as an assassin. Our GM is in agreement with this as lawabiding.
Reiner 07-22-06, 04:56 PM	That doesn't work at all, since the requirements for Assassin are 8 ranks in hide/move, not that you have a total modifer of +8. Skill focues does not help you meet prereqs of a class.
Hanniball 07-22-06, 05:21 PM	Rog 3/Ftr 2/Invisible Blade 5/Assassin 9/XXX 1 This build provides a higher BAB than many rogue builds. Combined with Two-Weapon fighting, it's improved variations and +10D6 Sneak Attack makes flanking devestating. You'll be pretty flexible, but Death Attack isn't really that useful against most monster-opponents. Quick-kills are really the province of save-or-die spellcasters and Power-Attack masters. Although I agree that casters and chargers are the quick-kill masters, I cannot see how a Death Attack Dc of 30+ is anything to sneeze at. Consider the build you posted: Rog2/Swash 3/Assassin 9/TSL 6 armed with two Assassin daggers (DMG), the Feat Ability Focus: Death Attack, and a 30 Int (15 base, +4 lvls, +6 Item, +5 book) That's 10 (base) + 15 (lvls) + 2 (daggers) +2 (ability focus) + 10 (Int)= DC 39 That a lot higher than the Dcs for most Save-or-Die spells in 3.5, but requires three rounds of prep as opposed to a Swift Action. Either way... just my 2 cp
rilem 07-22-06, 05:32 PM	That's 10 (base) + 15 (lvls) + 2 (daggers) +2 (ability focus) + 10 (Int)= DC 39 That a lot higher than the Dcs for most Save-or-Die spells in 3.5, but requires three rounds of prep as opposed to a Swift Action. Either way... just my 2 cp Oh, it's fine, no question. for doing what an Assassin would normally be doing — killing bureaucrats, politicians, merchants and so on. But monsters of equal CR, at that level, are going to have Fort. saves of +23 to +28 — at least in Core, I just ran a quick check. Mages are still valid targets, but since your Death Attack is utterly thwarted by concealment, etc., they'll have their own methods for avoiding it. And in the three rounds you've spent preparing your attack, your allies have been doing real damage. Death Attack has its uses, certainly, and if you set it up properly it can make a nice opening move. It's just limited in a standard campaign, I think.
Hanniball 07-22-06, 06:25 PM	Death Attack has its uses, certainly, and if you set it up properly it can make a nice opening move. It's just limited in a standard campaign, I think. And it's the rogues job to ensure that the campaign is anything but standard. Seriously though, I agree. It's far too often you have the party of PCs simply charge into battle screaming off spells and flailing around weapons taking no heed to battlefield control or positioning. I have found myself crouched behind a door with my x-ray goggles waiting the 3 rounds, only to have the Mage Finger of Death my target. So, it does take a certain amount of preparation, but that shouldn't be too difficult to manage with a bit a patience and communication between party members. But monsters of equal CR, at that level, are going to have Fort. saves of +23 to +28 — at least in Core, I just ran a quick check. When a Wizard comes across a BBEG with a high Fort. save he doesn't (or at least shouldn't) try to Disintegrate him, he switches over to his Hold Monster or Fireball. The assassin has a few tricks up his sleeve as well, just check out the spell list. And remember the Extra Spell feat as well as Practiced Spellcaster for some neccessary caster level boosting. Either way...just my 2 cp