Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grizley 01-19-04, 04:17 AM	I'm making a mainly assassin focused charecter for a campaign starting soon, 3.5 +unapproachable east mostly, not real combat intensive. The idea is to have a charecter that can get into anywhere, kill someone without being seen and get back out again. The less evidence the better. The campaign starts at 8th level. I am looking at rog3/war2/assassin3 to start. I also want to get Shadowlord in there, only problem is I also want HiPS as soon as possible. The two ideas I have are rogue3, war2, assassin2, shadow walker template (start here), shadow dancer 4, shadowlord 6, assassin 2. Or rogue 3, war 2, assassin 8, shadowlord 6, assassin 9. I am leaning to the second one even though it means I am going to be pretty horrible until 13th level for HiPS. My starting stats aren't locked in yet, but right now I am looking at. 32 point buy Human. Str 10 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 12 1 Rogue1- Dodge, Mobility 2 Warrior1- Weapon Finess 3 Warrior2- Spring Attack, EXWP Chain 4 Rogue2 5 Rogue3 6 Assassin1- Weapon Finess 7 Assassin2 8 Assassin3 9 Assassin4- Two weapon fighting 10 Assassin5 11 Assassin6 12 Assassin7- Blindfight 13 Assassin8- Hide in plain sight woot! 14 Shadowlord1 15 Shadowlord2-Imp 2 weapon fighting? 16 Shadowlord3 17 Shadowlord4 18 Shadowlord5-No ideas for feats 19 Shadowlord6- huge death attack dc. 24+statmod 20 Assassin9 Not a whole lot of extra room for moving feats around until 15th level thanks to shadowlord requirements. Maybe swapping out the second level of fighter for Swashbucker for the extra 2 skillpoints and two weapon fighting for free, that would let me take fighter2 as level 20 if I had to have another feat then.
Wyrd 01-19-04, 05:17 AM	- you have weapon finesse twice - with warrior you mean fighter ? - you could drop the warrior levels and the third rogue level and use three levels of swashbuckler to get weapon finesse for free, and intelligence to damage - swashbuckler doesn't get two-weapon fighting for free - for effective get in / get out without being noticed, silent spell would be a nice feat
Funny Slaughter 01-19-04, 06:20 AM	i think death attack is not really that worthy. the strength of an assassin are his utility-spells, but personally i think that plain rogue is better. i would suggest that you take the template, its a good one, especially for a rogue, even if one dont want to enter TSL. swashbuckler3 is a good option, especially if you are set on twf. using a few ranger-levels (2 or 3) dont hurt either, track is a very useful feat for an assassin, you have to find your mark first sometimes, and the free fighting-style makes ranger2 better then fighter3/4. i like it even better then two levels of fighter, but thats because i favor skillpoints a lot. the time UE got published there was a real flood of TSL-builds, did some myself, i am sure you can find a lot of them using the almighty search-button. gs Funny
Snow Savant 01-19-04, 06:51 AM	The way I like structuring Assassin & TSL builds is a little different. I like for them to retain their heavy emphasis on stealth & Sneak Attack, all the while ensuring their BAB stays on track for an eventual BAB +16 at 20th level. Not because I am enamoured with 4 attacks in pre-epic, but because I like having higher attack capabilities for those moments when I fight creatures immune to SA. And at higher levels ... and *especially* in epic, SA becomes really hard to pull off. That higher BAB will allow you to better substitute as a Fighter-type (for archery or melee) for when dealing with the inevitable construct, undead, plant, vermin, or "fortified-armor" individual. So, I suggest you fiddle around with alternative builds that grant you a final BAB +16, with still substantial quantities of SA and skill ranks. As prior posters mentioned, 3 levels of Swashbuckler should help here, as Swa-3 fits your mechanical theme as well as keeping up BAB and giving you some Roguish skill ranks to boot (Bluff, Tumble, Diplomacy, etc.). Rog3 / Ftr2 / Swa3 / Assassin8 / TelfShadowLord4 BAB +16 +6d6 SA And interlace the build so as to get the TFL's Shadowjump ability as soon as possible. I won't build out the level-by-level progression, because you may want to tack on some of the prefix levels on to the end. Nonetheless, this build gives you a more robust baseline HD, more tactical combat options (you can be a fighter in a pinch), and sets you up well for epic also. Just take 2 more levels of Assassin to get Epic benefits. Hope this helps ... and good luck! XO, Snow :cloud9:
pawsplay 01-19-04, 12:54 PM	Inevitible construct, har har! Err, okay. Usually I favor Rogue 10/Assassin 10, because Rogue special abilities really are nifty keen. BAB +16 probably means at least 6 fighter levels... I wouldn't consider it worth it. Besides which, the last iterative attack is the most likely to miss. I'd depend on epic attack bonus to close the gap. Instead, take Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Point Blank shot, etc., as you are able. It is possible to get a very high Dexterity bonus at high levels anyway. Since Assassins get true strike, Power Attack is a possibility for higher levels. For non-evil types, a single level of Sorcerer grants the same. Swashbuckler has Weapon Finesse... taking it up to 3rd level is not a bad notion. Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 10/ prestige classes to taste looks like the basic assassin build.
Elgonn 01-19-04, 01:14 PM	Originally posted by pawsplay BAB +16 probably means at least 6 fighter levels... BAB +16 requires 4 Full BAB levels. Not six. Elgonn
pawsplay 01-19-04, 01:16 PM	You take an extra hit for your assassin level.
BenjCano 01-19-04, 01:28 PM	An interesting way to satisfy the spellcasting requirements for the TSL without taking the template is to play a Fey'ri with the dimension door spell-like abilitiy. In fact, I believe that, aside from the template, this is the way to satisfy this requirment that requires the fewest sacrifice of TSL levels (the Fey'ri with DD have a level adjust of +3, versus the eight levels of assassin or 6 of horizen walker or what have you). How about a: Male Fey'ri Ranger 3/Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Assassin 5/Teflammar Shadowlord 4? Lots of fun, very versatile.
Elgonn 01-19-04, 01:32 PM	Even taking an extra hit from Assassin you only would need 5. Now getting 16 bab while being epic ready for assassin would take some levels. Elgonn
pawsplay 01-19-04, 01:37 PM	Rogue 10, BAB +7 Fighter 6, BAB +6 Assassin 4, BAB +3 Total BAB: +16 Rogue 10, BAB +7 Fighter 5, BAB +5 Assassin 5, BAB + 3 Total BAB: +15
Elgonn 01-19-04, 01:40 PM	Rogue 7, BAB +5 Assassin 8, BAB +6 5 Full Any, BAB +5 Total +16 - Or - Rogue 8, BAB +6 Assassin 8, BAB +6 4 Full Any, BAB +4 Total +16 Just watch what levels..
Funny Slaughter 01-19-04, 01:42 PM	i dont like fey'ri, with the high LA you dont get much out of the deal. githyanki are less an option in 3.5, but still viable. good stat-mods and nice abilities for +2 trump the fey'ri easily imo. i do also think the shadowwalker-template with +1 is just alright. a TSL is not born at 15th level normally, one should take care that he survives until his PrC takes care of this. with a fey'ri rogue this will be hard... gs Funny
Sinweave 01-19-04, 01:53 PM	Bayushi's Technique ala Rokungan Campaign Setting (You'd have to ask your DM if he would allow it) along with Invisible Blade would suffice to make you quite deadly in close combat, and get a blade with silence on it (I'm pretty sure something exists along those lines) you're nice and obsfugated
Grizley 01-19-04, 03:35 PM	Hoo boy, that'll teach me to post late at night. One of those weapon finesses should have been combat reflexes. And the swashbuckler gives finess not twf. I realize death attack isn't something that will often come up during combat but it can be a great opener for combat. Study 3 rounds, shadowstep, pounce, deathattack, spring attack away. The epic suggestions are helpfull as a guide for what to look out for in general, but this specific charecter is very unlikely to get even 16th and epic is pretty much right out. My only beef with the shadow walker template is really the -2 con. I tend to like to be able to play a little risky and d6 hd and 12 con makes me feel all fragile. It does have some nice abilities, even if the darkness nerf in 3.5 makes baby jesus cry. Bascially all it does is negate the TSL auto blur. Thanks for all the suggestions!