Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kizzim 09-03-06, 05:17 PM	Ive been looking for some threads on Assassin Optimization, ive found many threads pointing them out, but without a search feature ive been unable to find them, does anyone have any links? or would post a nice assassin optimization?
PhaedrusXY 09-03-06, 05:23 PM	There is a link to a fairly optimized (but old) assassin build in my sig (Shadowlord Assassin). I remember seeing a very nice Changeling Monk/Assassin/Monk of the Long Death build on here, but I can't find it now...
GaffeR 09-03-06, 05:27 PM	Might wanna check the Rogue section in this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636) thread. Otherwise, a simple Rogue 9/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 8 build is lethal and effective. Generally 8 is a good break point for the assassin, for HiPS and no wasted BAB.
Hanniball 09-03-06, 11:31 PM	With a decent Intelligence and Charisma I've found Rog 3/Hexblade 2/Assassin 9/Telflammar Shadowlord 6 is effective and can be very deadly. This build is complemented nicely with Ability Focus: Death Attack and an Assassin's Dagger. Either way...just my 2 cp
Daeger 09-03-06, 11:40 PM	Otherwise, a simple Rogue 9/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 8 build is lethal and effective. Generally 8 is a good break point for the assassin, for HiPS and no wasted BAB. But you get another sneak attack and two more uses of greater invisibility! That's pretty significant, not to mention two more 4th level spells. Look at all the stuff they get for fourth level spells. Dimension door, freedom of movement, glibness, modify memory.. and that's just the DMG, Spell Compendium has much more. Assassin 10 is the way to go. Also, the assassin's dagger is a red herring in my opinion, since wounding will usually deliver the same DC increase because of the CON loss, and you get some additional HP damage. Plus, you can keep it for regular combat instead of discarding it for something better.
Kresalak 09-03-06, 11:43 PM	That's why you upgrade your Assassin's Dagger. With wounding.
Daeger 09-03-06, 11:44 PM	That's why you upgrade your Assassin's Dagger. With wounding. I don't believe you can do that in the RAW, I think your GM would have to specially allow that. But I could be wrong.
GaffeR 09-04-06, 12:27 AM	Assassin 10 is the way to go. Look at the class abilities of Assassin 10. The extra SA die at 9 is ok, but hardly incredible (3.5 extra damage, wee). At that level, the extra spells/day are nothing compared to wealth/treasure + UMD. Who gives a damn about 2 extra spell slots when you have wands and scrolls? Just my 2 cp. I might also be tempted to swap to Swash 3/Fighter 1/Rogue 8/Assassin 8. Lower Sneak attack, but 4 attacks around and we leave Rogue on Imp Uncanny Dodge and Assassin on HiPS. I'd suggest Monk with Kung-Fu Genius, but I'm not sure how it'd affect BAB.
Daeger 09-04-06, 12:39 AM	Look at the class abilities of Assassin 10. The extra SA die at 9 is ok, but hardly incredible (3.5 extra damage, wee). At that level, the extra spells/day are nothing compared to wealth/treasure + UMD. Who gives a damn about 2 extra spell slots when you have wands and scrolls? Just my 2 cp. I might also be tempted to swap to Swash 3/Fighter 1/Rogue 8/Assassin 8. Lower Sneak attack, but 4 attacks around and we leave Rogue on Imp Uncanny Dodge and Assassin on HiPS. I'd suggest Monk with Kung-Fu Genius, but I'm not sure how it'd affect BAB. You act like wands and scrolls are really cheap. A wand of greater invisibility is 24,000 gp, which is 12% of a 15th level character's average wealth. That's pretty significant. Not only do you get +1d6 sneak attack, two more spell slots, and two more spells known, but you also get a +2 DC to your death attack, which is essentially equivalent to a feat. I do agree that Kung-Fu Genius (or even better, Carmendine Monk from Champions of Valor) and a level of monk is very nice for any aspiring assassin, however. Edit: By the way, Rogue 8/Swash 3/Fighter 1 incurs multiclassing penalties.
GaffeR 09-04-06, 01:05 AM	You act like wands and scrolls are really cheap. A wand of greater invisibility is 24,000 gp, which is 12% of a 15th level character's average wealth. That's pretty significant. Not only do you get +1d6 sneak attack, two more spell slots, and two more spells known, but you also get a +2 DC to your death attack, which is essentially equivalent to a feat. I do agree that Kung-Fu Genius (or even better, Carmendine Monk from Champions of Valor) and a level of monk is very nice for any aspiring assassin, however. Edit: By the way, Rogue 8/Swash 3/Fighter 1 incurs multiclassing penalties. For a 15th level sneak attacker, 12% for 50 uses of Greater Invis seems like a pretty good deal to me. However, scrolls are a cheaper option. With the limited number of spells/day that the assassin gets, I think they're better used for utility spells, rather than combat spells. In either case, at higher levels a lot of stuff starts getting True-Seeing at will, which makes the Invis strategy far less effective. Personally, I'd take 4 attacks/round over an extra 1d6 SA (hence the drop from 'sin at after a +BAB level). Death attack has never appealed to me. I look at assassin as a nice means to get more SA, some helpful utility spells and HiPS. However, i agree that for death attack use you'd want as many assassin levels as you can get. To each his own though. Argh, XP penalities, forgot about those. Any combination of 4 BAB in 4 levels will work, though.
Daeger 09-04-06, 01:10 AM	For a 15th level sneak attacker, 12% for 50 uses of Greater Invis seems like a pretty good deal to me. However, scrolls are a cheaper option. With the limited number of spells/day that the assassin gets, I think they're better used for utility spells, rather than combat spells. In either case, at higher levels a lot of stuff starts getting True-Seeing at will, which makes the Invis strategy far less effective. Personally, I'd take 4 attacks/round over an extra 1d6 SA (hence the drop from 'sin at after a +BAB level). Death attack has never appealed to me. I look at assassin as a nice means to get more SA, some helpful utility spells and HiPS. However, i agree that for death attack use you'd want as many assassin levels as you can get. To each his own though. Argh, XP penalities, forgot about those. Any combination of 4 BAB in 4 levels will work, though. Pfft.. +16 BAB is way overrated. That last attack is made at -15, and if you're attacking someone that the last attack can reasonably hit, chances are your other attacks killed him already.
X-Codes 09-04-06, 02:08 AM	I think Ninja 11/Assassin 9 is among the best. I mean, theres killing people, and then theres killing people from another plane. Plus you get all the cool acrobatic abilities the Ninja has to offer, and even though it only has +14 BAB, it gets 11d6 SA/SS combined.
Hanniball 09-04-06, 11:53 AM	I think Ninja 11/Assassin 9 is among the best. Unfortunately, it suffers from a bit of MAD if you're interested in UMD. Dex, Int (skills and Death Attack), Wis (Ninja abilities) and Cha (UMD) is kind of hard to keep up with. However, with a decent set of stats (or ditching UMD) I agree, Ninja/Rog rocks! Either way...just my 2 cp
cyberpunks 09-04-06, 03:27 PM	IMO, the Binder[ToM] is the best assassin. He can go ethereal once every 5 rounds, gets sneak attacsk, and he can perform death attacks at DC42-45.
NatchFeral 09-04-06, 08:44 PM	I'm sure that using Telflammar Shadow Lord's shadow pounce ability with ToB's Shadow Blink maneuver is useful. Perhaps Monk or Ninja 4/Shadow Sage 2/Assassin 4/Telflammar Shadow Lord 6/Shadow Sun Ninja 4 You will be tight on feats!
Abe Lincoln 09-04-06, 10:22 PM	I don't believe you can do that in the RAW, I think your GM would have to specially allow that. But I could be wrong. SRD: ADDING NEW ABILITIES A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. So, you can upgrade the assassin's dagger as it is a magic item and its done with no restrictions, but i'm guessing price might be an interesting thing to iron out with the DM.
Daeger 09-04-06, 10:26 PM	SRD: ADDING NEW ABILITIES A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. So, you can upgrade the assassin's dagger as it is a magic item and its done with no restrictions, but i'm guessing price might be an interesting thing to iron out with the DM. I say it's not RAW because for just that reason. There's no pricing guideline, which makes it fall under GM fias.
epifreak 09-05-06, 12:57 AM	Okay, how about monk 2, fighter 1, rogue 3, assassin 2, shadowdancer 2, devish 10, blade dancer (OA) 1. The hinge point of this build comes in breaking one little feat, and as a result, you come into your own at about level 12. The feat is backstabber from the Unholy Warrior Handbook. Basically, when invisible or beating an opponent's spot check by 10+, you automatically threaten a crit on your first attack and must only roll to confirm. This isn't particularly abusive until you use it with a scythe.....a +1 pitspawned (DMG2) Acidic Burst Scythe to be exact. I had this character averaging 60-ish damage on the opening salvo. Better yet, this 60 damage was in addition to 2 DC 15 fort saves. If either is failed, the opponent dies (death attack, death by massive damage). It doesn't go past level 2 in the actual assassin class, but it does flavor as an assassin quite well. The dervish levels make the build more substantial in combat past that first round. It's very feat and skill intensive, though, so you need a human with at least a 13 inteligence to have any chance at getting this build. Even so, your first 7-or-so levels are pretty much on a rail, with no actual character choices. And yes, I know it's a 21 level build. If needed, you could kill an assassin level, or knock off blade dancer without crippling the build. The blade dancer doubles the character's base speed, though, so I hate to see it go.
Abe Lincoln 09-05-06, 01:08 AM	I say it's not RAW because for just that reason. There's no pricing guideline, which makes it fall under GM fias. I don't understand that it isn't rules as written, the DM says you can "add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions." Wounding is a new magical ability, the assassin blade is a magic item. It so it can be added without restrictions.
Satori 09-05-06, 01:14 AM	There was a build we came up with in another thread that went something like: -Ftr2/Rog4/Blackguard4/Ghost Faced Killer10 It lets you do some cool "Paladin" type things with your Charisma, and ends up a hard hitting, heavy armor wearing assassin that can stand toe to toe with tanks after the initial "Death Attack".
Daeger 09-05-06, 01:22 AM	I don't understand that it isn't rules as written, the DM says you can "add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions." Wounding is a new magical ability, the assassin blade is a magic item. It so it can be added without restrictions. Perhaps saying it's not RAW was the wrong way to say it. Let me try that again. It's one of those things that is subject to GM fias in a way that it can't be reliably referred to, due to the lack of information on what costs what and why. Assumptions can certainly be made, of course. It's not a subject the rules seem to touch on, unfortunately.
Hanniball 09-05-06, 01:44 AM	There was a build we came up with in another thread that went something like: -Ftr2/Rog4/Blackguard4/Ghost Faced Killer10 Just a nitpick. :) Ftr 2/Rog 4 doesn't qualify for Blackguard due to the +6 BAB requirement. Of course, it does qualify for GFK and with a one level dip you do meet all the reqs. or would post a nice assassin optimization? Rog 5/Chameleon 10/Assassin 5 More Chameleon than Assassin, but the Chameleons "I can do whatever I want, whenever I want" thing is a great boon to any assassin. Again...just my 2 cp